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CIFA to investigate citizens' loyalty?

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posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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I was almost tempted to throw this into the NWO forum, but as only a few of us would automatically see it as fitting there, I figured this would work, too.
The FBI was supposed to be an investigative organization, but, as you all know, they now carry a variety of weapons and use them to arrest citizens off of properly seated federal territory. That isn't good enough, we need another group of federal cops tracking us down.

"We are deputizing the military to spy on law-abiding Americans in America. This is a huge leap without even a [congressional] hearing," Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said in a recent interview.


www.washingtonpost.com...




posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 09:46 AM
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Cool. I hope they'll bag many of 'em evil terrorists. They're all around you, you know, watching your every move ... oh wait, that's the government, sorry.

I'm feeling sarcastic today for some reason. Punish me if you must.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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Has anyone tried to make a list of all these intelegence orginizations here in a while? I saw one before but couldn't find it.

It would be interested in a flow chart, or graphical form to see how all these orgs, work, and are arranged.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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the good thing about all this, is that it will start to make regular people who are still asleep, or have been brainwashed by propoganda, aware of 'the problem'.
unless, of course, 'their' plan reaches full fruition.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
the good thing about all this, is that it will start to make regular people who are still asleep, or have been brainwashed by propoganda, aware of 'the problem'.
unless, of course, 'their' plan reaches full fruition.


Don't count on it. In the 2 threads already going on this same subject, people are defending the gov't just like always...


Thomas, did you do a search before you started this thread?


www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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And then there is this offensive garbage of a policy....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What is going on!??!



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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This should help elaborate on what they are enforcing... Wolfowitz is behind this by the way.

The commentaries from former mililtary workers at the bottom of the side is worth reading as well:

It is the military's equivalent of the FBI and intelligence community's post 9/11 shift, and Wolfowitz directed the sharing of reports on ambiguous activity. This new reporting mechanism -- called TALON for Threat and Local Observation Notice -- applies to seven reporting categories

* Non-specific threats
* Surveillance
* Elicitation
* Test of security
* Unusual repetitive activity
* Bomb threats
* Other suspicious activity

According to a classified Standing Joint Force Headquarters-North document on "intelligence sharing" dated July 20, 2005, and obtained exclusively by this washingtonpost.com blogger, collection of intelligence on U.S. persons is allowed by military intelligence units if there is a reason to believe the U.S. person is:

* "Connected to international terrorist activities;
* Connected to international narcotics;
* Connected to foreign intelligence;
* A threat to DoD installations, property, or persons; or,
* The subject of authorized counterintelligence."

"Elicitation," for instance, is defined in TALON documents as:

"Any attempts to obtain security-related or military-specific information by anyone who does not have the appropriate security clearance and the need-to-know. Elicitation attempts may be made by mail, fax, telephone, by computer, or in person."

Ask questions of a military person about their tour in Iraq, protest about the presence of military recruiters on campus or at the Mall, engage in lawful protest against the Iraq war, and you could find yourself in the Cornerstone database, forever a "suspect." Tomorrow I'll write about how this is really happening.

This article is VERY worth reading;

Early Warning By Arkin on Domestic Intelligence (washington post)



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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What is going on in our country is nothing new, and what the government is doing to its citizens is not new either, is just the only way that governments in democratic or so called democratic, industrialized countries can do to avoid having their populations raised against their elected officials.

Is call social control, through fear and manipulation of media and executions of power through government agencies the governments of nations like ours make sure that citizens are control through fear, fear is a powerful tool against the free thinking.

Now we no only has to fear, war, muslins, terrorist and immigrants but also we have to fear our own government agencies.

The true of all this is . . . that . . . it only works as long as the citizens are allowe it to happen.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLiesAsk questions of a military person about their tour in Iraq, protest about the presence of military recruiters on campus or at the Mall, engage in lawful protest against the Iraq war, and you could find yourself in the Cornerstone database, forever a "suspect." Tomorrow I'll write about how this is really happening.


This is complete horse shinola. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of this organization's role and purpose, or alternatively is purposely inflammatory to pander to a certain point of view. Referring to the CIFA as the "military's equivalent of the FBI" is misleading - CIFA is comprised of DoD civilian employees, no different then the Defense Contract Audit Agency or the fine folks who run the Navy Exchange. For the most part, these people are not law enforcement officals and do not carry weapons. They are analysts, programmers, investigators and educators. If criminal activity or espionage is detected on military reservations, that information is turned over to the appropriate DoD law enforcement agency (NCIS, CID, OSI, etc). If it is discovered in non-military areas, it is turned over to the FBI.

This is simply a bunch of people trying to fuse data together to build big pictures, and then disseminate those pictures to the right users. It is data mining for counterintelligence. The recent discussion by certain members of the government is due to a rash of espionage being discovered in the US, primarily being conducted by non-US citizens working for DoD contractors. These new powers would be focues towards these kinds of people, who for the most part go unmonitored because they have no security clearance. We know alot about our cleared, trusted people, but know very little about our visitors from other countries....this is what this expansion of powers is all about. And this wouldn't even be an issue if the FBI was focused on dometic CI issues, which they apparently are not.

I swear, some of you folks find a bogeyman under ever rock you look under. And while Arkin has good sources (I read him every day), he is, for the most part, usually inflaming the sensibilities of the left in an attempt to troll for readers as well...............

[edit on 29-11-2005 by Pyros]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros
This is complete horse shinola. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of this organization's role and purpose, and leads me to believe that trolling for points is alive and well.


The originator of this thread is an administrator! He could give himself a zillion points if he wanted.

Besides, that's a quote from the article, not TrueLies' opinion.



I swear, some of you folks find a bogeyman under ever rock you look under. And while Arkin has good sources (I read him every day), he is, for the most part, usually inflaming the sensibilities of the left in an attempt to troll for readers as well...............


Maybe he gets points...



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Pyros
This is complete horse shinola. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of this organization's role and purpose, and leads me to believe that trolling for points is alive and well.


The originator of this thread is an administrator! He could give himself a zillion points if he wanted.

Besides, that's a quote from the article, not TrueLies' opinion.





I swear, some of you folks find a bogeyman under ever rock you look under. And while Arkin has good sources (I read him every day), he is, for the most part, usually inflaming the sensibilities of the left in an attempt to troll for readers as well...............


Maybe he gets points...


I have since edited my original post. Since part of the orginal post I was referring to was not completely in quotes, I assumed it was original material.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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Pyros, we do not edit posts after they have been there long enough for someone else to read them. That is revising history, and that will get you in a heap of trouble.

As far as the role of organizations, the clear point I am making is that roles eveolve, and roles seem to ALWAYS go beyond what is allowable by the one document that the political parties see as an hindrance - the constitution.

The FBI, for example, is only supposed to be an investigative organization. Remember me writing something along those lines? And then they were allowed to carry weapons so that they might defend themselves while investigating. Now, as you are aware, the agency is well beyond that.

CIFA will be, too, and it isn't going to take it long.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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Actually (not to pick nits) I was in the process of editing the post prior to the response from BH being posted (I went to the Arkins page and read the story and realized it was his words), but I was too slow on the draw.....no biggie.

Are you saying that the FBI is not a law enforcement agency, with no power to arrest? Yes, they are the DoJ's primary investigative arm, but that doesn't mean that their mission has never included law enforcement. FBI Special Agents have been arresting bad guys since 1934.....

There is nothing in the US Constitution that says the Chief of the Executive Branch cannot create and use federal law enforcement agencies to enforce federal law as he or she sees fit. Nor is there a limit to the number of those agencies he or she can create. The Constitution is not the "check" of the Executive Branch's power.....it is the power of Congress to withhold funding of these new agencies which keeps presidential powers in check. The SCOTUS ensures that the people's rights don't get trampled during these power plays.

The concept of the FBI only being an investigative arm only has been dead for over 70 years. From the FBI's home page:

"During the early and mid-1930s several crucial decisions solidified the Bureau's position as the nation's premier law enforcement agency. Responding to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, in 1932, Congress passed a federal kidnapping statute. Then in May and June 1934, with gangsters like John Dillinger evading capture by crossing over state lines, it passed a number of federal crime laws that significantly enhanced the Bureau's jurisdiction. In the wake of the Kansas City Massacre, Congress also gave Bureau Agents statutory authority to carry guns and make arrests".





[edit on 29-11-2005 by Pyros]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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Now we no only has to fear, war, muslins, terrorist and immigrants but also we have to fear our own government agencies.


Marge c’mon now, wait did you say terrorists and immigrants? Wow, I actually agree with you there

But seriously, with reports of foreign spy's compromising US military information and facilities I think such a move is warranted by the Pentagon.


The proposal, made by a presidential commission, would transform CIFA from an office that coordinates Pentagon security efforts -- including protecting military facilities from attack -- to one that also has authority to investigate crimes within the United States such as treason, foreign or terrorist sabotage or even economic espionage.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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From the Washington Post article---



The moves have taken place on several fronts. The White House is considering expanding the power of a little-known Pentagon agency called the Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA, which was created three years ago. The proposal, made by a presidential commission, would transform CIFA from an office that coordinates Pentagon security efforts -- including protecting military facilities from attack -- to one that also has authority to investigate crimes within the United States such as treason, ......


Now that Karl Rove and "Scooter" Libby escaped being charged with treason, we can worry about nailing the some underlings with trying to destroy this nation? Since the White House is considering this proposal, maybe the chance to charge some scapegoat in the future is preferable to losing another "Advisor".
I have read some history and this reminds me of McCarthyism. During the 1950's Senator Joe McCarthy had some Communist Witch Hunts. Just a hint that somebody might have considered the Communists not all bad could ruin reputations. People lost jobs because of it. I'd hate to think that we are going back to those days.
On the other hand, to all Government and Intelligence people reading this, I think it is a wonderful idea.

By the way, I thought the FBI was supposed to investigate Federal Crimes, such as Treason. Am I wrong?



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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Well, I have this to say regarding treason:

Patriotism is love for one's country, not love for one's government.

Next thing you know, a vote for someone other than Bush will count as treason...think about it, when you vote for another person, you're saying you don't like Bush's policies.


I still plan on voting Constitution Party, provided we actually have elections!



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Marge c’mon now, wait did you say terrorists and immigrants? Wow, I actually agree with you there

But seriously, with reports of foreign spy's compromising US military information and facilities I think such a move is warranted by the Pentagon.



I made a point to my littler list of "Be Afraid Of" to show how we have been monitored to be afraid of everything.

Agencies are just agencies, they are made and they can be broken depending of the agendas of the administration in power.

Our government under Bush has gotten bolder and bigger with power been given to new branches in the government and from the government to new agencies.

This is no good for the rights of the common American citizens not matter how nice and sugar coated with patriotism they make out to look

Big government are never for the interest of the populace.

Actually is the best way of control of any nation's people, littler by littler fear has been spread like a blanket to the people of our nation, and then new laws and new agencies are popping out to "Serve the Public" and "Make it safe"

But what many are not seen is the fact that is nothing more than increased resources in these agencies to have better control of the population.

just don't let all this blind you to the real issues.



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