Kecksberg Revisited

When the latest Keckberg docudrama hit SciFi Channel I watched it with my wife, waiting in breathless anticipation for The Truth to be Finally Revealed, regailing her with inside information ("Look, look: this is what I told you about!") -- only, they missed it. No great revalation, no Truth At Last. hubris alert: I already knew what it was, of course and have since the first time I heard of the events, back in the late '60s.

However, since Bryant Gumbel didn't confirm my suspeicions, I knew that I couldn't possibly be right. So I started researching, to convince myself I was totally, absolutely wrong and possibly delusional.

Problem is, every time I thought up a new objection, I found evidence that I was wrong about being wrong.

(Yeah, that part's directly from my Intro post).
(And I originally planned to explain my reasoning, with a fairly long lead-in. Instead I've decided to just jtake a big breath and jump right in.)

The object that reportedly fell in Kecksberg on December 9, 1965, couldn't have possibly been an atomic bomb. Specifically, it couldn't have been a MK-6 RV carrying a functional W-53 9-megaton, high-yield two-stage thermonuclear warhead. That would be crazy, right?

It's just not the sort of thing the government would keep classified for 40 years, is it? I mean, we've already admitted that we tried (with some success) to steal a Soviet missile sub. We've admitted to eavesdropping on the Soviet Navy. Dropping a nuke on our own citizens is not too bad a thing to admit, is it?

So, what's wrong with the theory? I've been looking into it for two years now, and will be sharing the data as I'm able to get it sorted out and into presentable shape, but for now:

What did I forget?? What piece of evidence could queer the whole deal and prove that we didn't almost fry a sizable piece of the population back in '65?

For starters look at this picture and and compare it to the descriptions of the Kecksberg object. In particular, imagine what would happen if the RV and spacer ring didn't separate cleanly, and the transition ring and part of the second-stage oxidizer tank accompanied the warhead to ground.

(I can post tons of links if you want, but if you just hit Google you'll find more than anyone needs about the Kecksberg event.)

The numbers are very telling. But I'm not sure just what they mean. The date contains the numbers 129 and the year contains the number 65. The number 129 is a number seen in the Admiral Byrd case. His flight took place on 1-29. The number 65 is also significant but without a very long discourse that most people aren't prepared to believe or understand it would be not worth talking about. 129 and 72 are numbers that have to do with the germans and possibly with an entity called the "germane" that some people say they channel. They are/were based near the north pole. The ship and its inhabitants, if not the germans or arians were probably shot down by them. Just a guess.

Interesting idea indeed. The only part that doesn't scan for me would be the symbols the witnesses describe on the ring portion of the "craft". I see nothing that would match them and it seems that English words would be identifiable.

grasshopper.... HUH??

[edit on 11/28/2005 by eaglewingz]

The only part that doesn't scan for me would be the symbols the witnesses describe on the ring portion of the "craft".

Actually, that's a detail that helped cinch it for me. One witness (it may have been Romansky; still trying to re-find the reference) described the "hieroglyphics" as resembling arc-welding. That's the kind of detail that would only be know to someone who had actually seen recovered space craft. And in 1965 that was almost nobody.

If the piece had come down bass-ackwards, you would get this kind of pattern

If it had actually been properly oriented the release-bolt ports would probably left scorch tracks along the skirt. resembling the runes from LOTR:

A witness on one of the recent documentaries was shown a picture of a Pratt&Whitney J58, and pointed to the plumbing and said, yes, it was like that.


[edit on 28-11-2005 by rand]

rand - There are some cases were secrets have lasted greater than 40 years.I was watching a Discover Channel special that covered one in particular. After 60 years the families of American sailors killed in WWII were finally told what really happened to the them. Their ship was hit by an advanced Air to Ground missle the Germans were developing.

Both the British and US governments, in an effort to keep the Germans from knowing the results of their weapons effectiveness blighted all information about the ship and its crew. Families of the sailors recieved notice their sons were either MIA or died elswhere.

The irony is that soon after the war the missle was common knowledge, but the true fate of the sailors was simply passed over and forgotten. I imagine there are allot of UFO cases in which paperwork or evidence has suffered the same fate. Lost in the shuffle of government beauracracy.

In short there are planty of things the Government would not keep secret for over 40 years, but things definately get lost in the shuffle and remain covered up...unintentionaly.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by nullster]

rand, that is an interesting theory, and that avatar is priceless.

I have always thought that Kecksburg would be something that involved military hardware. At first I thought the Cosmos 96 satellite was a match, but the flight path has been proven that it came down in the ocean and at a different time. A nuke would be a good explanation, but have you determined a point of origin? The nuke would have to be launched probably from the west coast. But many sightings determine the flight path to come from the North across the Great Lakes. Could it have been Russian? Just food for thought.

...have you determined a point of origin?

Vandenberg. I had originally thought the only reasonable launch site would be the Marshalls or Johnston Atoll; there have been Thor-class launches there. What makes Vandenberg work is that Von Del Chamberlain and David Krause determined a reliable trajectory for the object (their paper is available from NASA, here) which shows it was travelling NNE.

There seemed to be two different sets of witnesses: those who saw an object travelling to the northeast, and those who saw it travelling southwest. Rather than argue about who was right, I decided to accept both and see where that led. If you follow both paths back, they intersect around Toledo, Ohio. That's signifigant because Toledo lies on or near a "Greatest Circle": there are three roughly equal routes along which you can fire a ballistic missile and have it travel the maximum distance without passing over another nation or over international waters. Interestingly, they all end near a launch base.


Map generated by the Great Circle Mapper copyright Karl L. Swartz

But wouldn't anyone notice if you shot missiles at Cape Cod? Well, right at the end of that trajectory is a little piece of Atlantic Ocean which the Navy uses for target practice. It is one of the few places in the US where the miltary guarantees that death and destruction can come flaming from the skies at any time, 24/7, holidays included. The island there is surrounded by waters clearly marked on naval charts as contining unexploded bombs, depth charges, and old torpedos (so don't go snooping around!).

If a Titan-II exploded over Toledo, there could have been TWO meteoric objects that evening.

BTW, the very first area photographed by the very first US spy satellite: Toledo.




[edit on 29-11-2005 by rand]

Awesome thread so far. I think the OP's original point about being a Abomb has credibility from the little bit I saw about the case.... why is NASA re-opening this case in the first place? There's been spotty news clips about it on tv and I haven't seen the reasoning.

Hoping this thread can provide more info . . . . thanks in advance.

They are looking back into it because they are forced to by the courts. An enterprising journalist won a decision in court, ordering NASA to disclose information about it. Now comes the official fumbling around, and the inevitable statement from officials concerning anything that has to do with those records have been lost, destroyed or damaged during some sort of routine office move, lol.

Now, why would they not want to disclose anything that happened so long ago? I don't think it is alien or anything, but one can surmise that their unwillingness to come forth with information could be because

1) The project was classified, and as such became part of the system. The players are dead/gone/retired and the new crowd has little interest and knowledge of the system, therefore when asked by someone to look into it they only gave it a cursory glance, discovered the headache of going through channels to get it declassified and gave up. Not because there is something earth shattering contained in the information, but becasue they are lazr and don't want to bother. Thus the person requesting the information goes to court to force them through the hoops so to speak.

2) That, whatever happened, they have looked into it and found the disclosure of information would impact current events, indicating that whatever it was, it is still relevant. How it is relevant could be anything. From revealing secret aviation/space projects to revealing techniques and policies for manipulating the public.

Me, I believe it was one of ours. I believe that it was a predecessor to some sort of SDI system, that we were actively engaged in the early stages of weaponizing space. Since that is a hot debate to this very day, they would be in no hurry to share information with the public, and the world community, that we were doing it way back when. It would open them up to years of criticism, and open our country up to seriously undesirable world attention.

This case has always been one of my favorites, because I think it is the tip of some nefarious iceberg. And I am considered a die hard "skeptic" and close minded "debunker" not given to conspiracy theories or hysterical hype. I also think that perhaps we don't need to know, honestly. I know we all want to know.....but if such knowledge could ultimately add to our enemies reasons for launching an all out war against us...well then I can wait a little while longer before finding out.

Interesting points ITFacts -- what my point now is -- why don't other groups, (Exopolitics, D Project) use the FoIC to get documents freed? This starts to get me wondering about those groups -- sometimes watching those videos, 'witnesses' they do seem a little staged, like the gov't wants this 'project' to exist to cover their back(s). Especially since NASA isn't the most honest group around, been reading "Dark Mission" and Hoagland slams a lot of admin within the uppers of NASA.

"Eyewitnesses claimed a flatbed truck transported a large object shaped like an acorn and about the size of a Volkswagen bus away from the scene. A mock-up based on the descriptions of local residents sits behind the Kecksburg Volunteer Fire Department."

www.stangordon.com...

During the many years which I spent investigating this incident, I interviewed hundreds of individuals who had direct or indirect knowledge about what had reportedly taken place. Some of the witnesses I interviewed saw the object moving across the sky, while others saw the semi-buried metallic acorn shaped object on the ground.

Several witnesses who were independently interviewed, described observing down in the wooded ravine, a large metallic acorn shaped object, with odd hieroglyphic symbols on the back end or raised ring section of the device. The entire object appeared to be one solid piece of metal, comprised of an off gold color. The device appeared seamless, and without rivets.

Among the many explanations that have been provided were a projectile fired from a giant gun, a missile, a meteorite, a Soviet ICBM, satellite,or Venus space probe, and an extra-terrestrial spacecraft. No definitive evidence has been brought forth to verify any of these possibilities.

According to Leslie Kean, (CFi) Coalition of Freedom of Information, Director of Investigations, the lawsuit which she filed on December 9, 2003, seeking disclosure of NASA records on the Kecksburg, PA UFO incident is still pending. The CFi is currently still waiting for the judge to rule on the NASA lawsuit.

Wow, so the investigator BEGAN this request exactly FOUR years ago. That's how long these things take to process?! Amazing, still, my initial point remains -- why don't other groups use the FoIA to get answers?

At this point, with a 4 year wait, we all should be filing some.

Also, anyone have any info on the investigator's case? I wonder what the documents are saying? Probably writing a book and we won't know for at least another year . . . . . .

Furthermore, don't Freedom/Info requests get TURNED DOWN a lot of the times? This could be more staged plots, for what, I have no idea. Who knows how many FoIR get turned down from UFO searches to gov't psychops, maybe there's more to this then we're speculating here.

Surely not 'case closed' personally.

[edit on 28-10-2007 by anhinga]