Murtha says get out now

Just watching Rep. Murtha on CNN saying we need to get out now. Cannot continue on the present course in Iraq. Redeploy the troops now.
Cannot find any links yet.

About time I say. Should never really been there.
Murtha is a senior Rep. and well respected in Washington.

www.alertnet.org...

WASHINGTON, Nov 17 (Reuters) - A leading pro-defense Democrat in the House of Representatives on Thursday urged the Bush administration to start the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

"The U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring them home," said Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania, a senior Democrat on the subcommittee that oversees military spending.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by valkeryie]

Situation in Iraq is not stable enough to justify troops withdrawal.

Why a sudden surge in voices favouring withdrawal from Iraq?

Whole middle east situation will change.

Replace US+allied troops with Israeli Troops? To keep peace in the war torn Iraq.
And those promises of reconstrucion after-destruction things?

Is that American way of doing the job?

doesn't matter who you put to 'protect' iraq .. nationalist will still attack, snipe, w/e any forces who occupy their country.

we leave, the iraqi nationalists and insurgents alike will feel as if they defeated the US ... and come one ..we don't want another loss in our column

if we stay .. more and more troops will continue to get picked off by suicide bombers, snipers, etc... more and more lines will be drawn and this country will continue to be divided.

what we need is a better strategy. what we doing now is obviously not working and our leader sure as hell doesn't sound/seem smart enough to change his strategy and personally i feel as if he doesn't care.


damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Mod Edit - removal of censor circumnavigation]

[edit on 17/11/05 by JAK]

Originally posted by Conspicuouz
doesn't matter who you put to 'protect' iraq .. nationalist will still attack, snipe, w/e any forces who occupy their country.

damned if you do, damned if you don't

IT was past, US forces are there now.
Legal or illegal, sane or insane, does not matter.
It is the present that decides the future. One wrong move leads to thousand damning possibilities.

Be clear, Should US get out of Iraq or not ?

Should we ask Iraqis?
After all we went their to liberate them from Saddam and install democracy,
let them give their verdict democratically, and accept in letter and spirit.................Like good guys!

[edit on 17/11/05 by JAK]

[quote



Be clear, Should US get out of Iraq or not ?

Should we ask Iraqis?
After all we went their to liberate them from Saddam and install democracy,
let them give their verdict democratically, and accept in letter and spirit.................Like good guys!

If that is all it takes...
Saddam is on trial and they are liberated from him.
They now hold election, hence they have democracy.
Mission done.

I simply do not understand. If the coalition just up and leaves iraq now, what precisely will happen when the iraqis start killing each other? Is the US and world going to sit by while genocide and ethnic cleansing breaks out? Is it going to sit by when iranian influences start creating a radical revolutionary islamic republic?

No one thinks that US troops would be back in iraq within a short time period if that sort of stuff happens?

The U.S. cannot get out of Iraq without being replaced by someone else doing the exact same security and police functions. Iraq is simply not up to the level of self-defense that is needed right now. Pull out now and you have a three way Kurd/Shiite/Sunni civil war.

Go ahead and impeach Bush, jail Cheney, or whatever. That does not change the fact that Iraq is incapable of self-prerservation right now. The U.N. or some other country would need to take our place. Otherwise, all those dead would have died in vain, and many more would die as a result, and I mean women and children, not just U.S. soldiers.

Murtha is an idiot. He is my Rep. and I am ashamed of it. He's one of like three people in the House that actually voted to reinstate the draft. He is a old school Kennedy Democrat just looking for press, with a lot of accusations but no solutions.

it would be a big mistake to get out for dis situation. no doubt about it. Iraq would become a new Afghanistan for Al Qaeda base right next to major countries who are allies of the U.S. dat exports most of America's oil. not to mention base for training to spread Jihad near Europe as well. its better to have the Iraqis able to train more troops and the U.S. to help provide equipment and training until the Iraqis are effective on containing or wiping out the insurgents and terrorists. until then we have to continue fighting.

valkyrie-- I really like your idea about putting our pullout to a vote. We seem to be so worried about what is best for the Iraqis but the only responses we get from Iraq are from our own media. According to them the Iraqis are pelting us with flowers and kisses as well as rpg's and bullets. Let's allow them to voice their national opinion directly to us. Even if we don't pullout with a positive vote at least we'll know how their country is feeling which will help us decide some kind of exit strategy here.

Originally posted by Conspicuouz
doesn't matter who you put to 'protect' iraq .. nationalist will still attack, snipe, w/e any forces who occupy their country.
[edit on 17/11/05 by JAK]

Islamic coalition lead by Iran could perhaps take over, Iraq has a majority of Shii'tes and so does Iran aswell as controlled by.

Attacks will most likely decrease and for any attacks that still occur the IRGC and Basij Militia will deal with it, Iran (well Persian empire) has stabilized the ME several times while it was in Turmoil.

I was in a hospital waiting room when this guy went on the news. Everyone in the waiting room was shaking their heads and saying things like "What an idiot" and "He doesn’t speak for me!”

Like I've said many times before, it aint going to happen.

Edit: Since you guys like conspiracies so much, perhaps you could explain why it is the major media news outlets seem to be doing as much as they can to damage the president? I always watch the news and ever since the Libby indictment, the news has been almost non-stop "look at these poll numbers!” It seems like every 5 mins they talk about the polls numbers, followed up by Harry ried calling the president names.

The American people voted for this president and support the war. No matter how much the media tried to convince you otherwise.


[edit on 17-11-2005 by Dronetek]

Originally posted by Dronetek
Like I've said many times before, it aint going to happen.

Yes it will, eventually.

Originally posted by Dronetek
Edit: Since you guys like conspiracies so much, perhaps you could explain why it is the major media news outlets seem to be doing as much as they can to damage the president?

Hmmm...seems to me that not long ago the media was being slated as being SO Pro-Bush that even a lot of posters on here seemed to believe they were under White House control, so now conspiracy # 1 (OMG we love Bush because, he buys us?) has ended but to inflame conspiracy #2 ? (OMG we HAVE to damage bush's agenda at ANY cost!)

I doubt even the Media giants would ride both sides of the fence so flagrantly and hope it would escape notice. No, i think perhaps a lot of LIGHT is being shed on the realities of the current administration, and the Media doesnt want to get caught in a situation where it may appear as though they are strong supporters of a President that may or may not have misled the american public in a variety of ways (if that turns out to be the reality of the situation).

Originally posted by Dronetek
The American people voted for this president and support the war. No matter how much the media tried to convince you otherwise.

The American people voted Bush in yes, but to say that NOW the majority support the war in that same sentence i think is a somewhat irresponsible claim, considering (since a majority of the posters here DO in fact quote media source) that the polls say that the average American now shows waning support.

We should have never gone in the first place, unfortunately now that we're there pulling out is not going to be as simple as gathering up our toys and leaving. We still have a ruined country on our hands.

I think most Americans would now support a pullout, but it's not likely to happen. What most Americans want generally seems to have little to do with what actually happens...

Besides, I don't think the US went in without intending to build permanent bases there, the idea was to redraw the map of the Middle East and put all that oil in friendly hands, not just get rid of Saddam. Powerful economic interests are behind all this, and their vote counts for a lot more than yours or mine.

This Democrat is no normal Democrat, he is a Ex-Marine and a combat-vet.

He is one of the few congressman with actual combat experiance and combat medals...37 years in the military, so his words carry alot of weight and We have to take him seriously.

My opinion is, if Bush keeps fighting this war as its currently being fought....holding back our air-power....putting our soldiers on trial after every shoot-out....letting the media leak stories that harm our war effort.....than go ahead and bring them home.

Maximu§

Why don't we leave the decision to bring the troops home to the troops that are currently in Iraq. The troops that want to stay can stay and the troops that want to come home to their families should be able to.

I know this is a simplistic approach but it's as valid as the reasons to stay and fight an incresingly unpopular war.

I personally don't care what happens to the Iraqis. They can decide for themselves what kind of country they want. Would we like troops here telling us how to run our country? So what if they have a civil war; it's survival of the fittest anyway.

Best of the 'worst' possible scenarios in my opinion...

Negotiate with Turkey to allow the Kurds to have a sovereign nation - arm the Kurds to allow them self-defense (similar to Israel but without nukes) - get the f*** out of Iraq - and let the shiites and sunnis massacre each other (because they're going to anyway no matter how many US troops are there) - if the EU wants to (and if they're stupid enough :puz, let them police the Iran-Iraq border.

What amazes me the most is how the US gov't can deal with this Chalabi (sp?) character - an Iranian sympathizer who lied about Hussein's "WMD's" in order to get the US to invade Iraq (and not to mention the US just 'trusting his sincerity') - and is considered one of the shadiest crooks in the region by Middle East countries ALONE!

One big Freaking Glass Floor in the making anyway you look at it, and it isn't looking pretty (pardon me, I had a long day :mad

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by Dronetek
Like I've said many times before, it aint going to happen.

Yes it will, eventually.

Originally posted by Dronetek
Edit: Since you guys like conspiracies so much, perhaps you could explain why it is the major media news outlets seem to be doing as much as they can to damage the president?

Hmmm...seems to me that not long ago the media was being slated as being SO Pro-Bush that even a lot of posters on here seemed to believe they were under White House control, so now conspiracy # 1 (OMG we love Bush because, he buys us?) has ended but to inflame conspiracy #2 ? (OMG we HAVE to damage bush's agenda at ANY cost!)

I doubt even the Media giants would ride both sides of the fence so flagrantly and hope it would escape notice. No, i think perhaps a lot of LIGHT is being shed on the realities of the current administration, and the Media doesnt want to get caught in a situation where it may appear as though they are strong supporters of a President that may or may not have misled the american public in a variety of ways (if that turns out to be the reality of the situation).

Originally posted by Dronetek
The American people voted for this president and support the war. No matter how much the media tried to convince you otherwise.

The American people voted Bush in yes, but to say that NOW the majority support the war in that same sentence i think is a somewhat irresponsible claim, considering (since a majority of the posters here DO in fact quote media source) that the polls say that the average American now shows waning support.

Why? Because some polls say so? The media was pretty sure the polls showed Kerry winning the election too.

Murtha sounds like the only sane politician the USA has left.

What amazes me the most is how the US gov't can deal with this Chalabi (sp?) character - an Iranian sympathizer who lied about Hussein's "WMD's" in order to get the US to invade Iraq (and not to mention the US just 'trusting his sincerity') - and is considered one of the shadiest crooks in the region by Middle East countries ALONE!

i suggest you look more into your sources, Chalabi was being paid by the govt. to say things like that but later on for some reason they stopped paying him and the F.B.I broke into his house claiming that he gaved us info which they didnt say on what specific information he had givin us.

It's time to go.

Let the EU or UN take it from here.