Muslims detained after prayers at Giants Stadium.

A group of muslims who were praying in the stadium during the Football match between the New York Giants and New Orleans Saints were detained by the FBI. The FBI justified their claim by saying that they were praying too close to the Stadium's air duct and the FBI suspect that they may be up to no good. Cautious or paranoid?

Muslim Detained At Prayer Seeks Understanding

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Five Muslims who were detained after praying at an American football game want to turn the incident into a tool to teach Americans about Islam.

While at a New York Giants against New Orleans Saints game at Giants Stadium on September 19, the New Jersey residents were removed from their seats and questioned by FBI agents after other fans saw them bow to the ground as part of the five-daily Muslim prayers.

"As Muslims, we just have to pray when it's time to pray," Sami Shaban told a news conference in New York on Wednesday. "We thought nothing of it. I pray in malls, I pray everywhere."

The 27-year-old law school student said he and his friends were questioned for about 25 minutes, missing part of the second half of the game. After they were released, an FBI agent told him they had been unwitting victims of racial profiling, Shaban said.

The FBI said the men were questioned because they congregated near an air duct at the stadium, not because they were praying. But the men dismissed that explanation.

The FBI later claims that it was not racial profiling:

FBI: Muslims Detained Weren't Profiled

By WAYNE PARRY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Five Muslim football fans were detained and questioned during a game at Giants Stadium because they were congregating near an air duct on a night former President Bush was in the stadium, the FBI said Wednesday.

Some of the Muslims said they did not know they were in a sensitive area, and they complained that they were subjected to racial profiling while they were praying, as their faith requires five times a day.

"I'm as American as apple pie and I'm sitting there and now I'm made to feel like I'm an outsider, for no reason other than I have a long beard or that I prayed," said Sami Shaban, a 27-year-old Seton Hall Law School student who lives in Piscataway.

I vote for paranoid. If they these men were up to no good, why did they pray there in the first place and then continued to watch the game later on?

Your thoughts and views?

Hi Heartagram//
Many seem to be paranoid today with good reason.

But Chrsitianity CONDEMS SUICIDE PERIOD!!!

I vote for paranoid. If they these men were up to no good, why did they pray there in the first place and then continued to watch the game later on?

Your thoughts and views?

You say that /
quote/If they these men were up to no good, why did they pray there in the first place and then continued to watch the game later on?

This holds onto nothing.
How many suicide bombers have appeared on VIDEO tapes with holding the Koran and then have gone ahead and bombed innocent people in public places?
Obviously Islam does not see anything wrong with suicide bombings?
Am I wrong in this?
To give up one Muslim life for defending ones faith in killing many innocent people is not considered anything Wrong, in Islam.......am I wrong?

These people may have been innocent in their prayers during the game, but with the world in FEAR of SUICIDE BOMBINGS......what else can people do?

If one is in a Muslim country, then one must behave like a muslim.......must dress like a muslim or else finds himself/herself being prosecuted.....Ins't that true?

If one is in a Christian country, then one must understand that GOD understands this and being an ALL KNOWING GOD, will allow one prayer session to go unnoticed.
God does not condemn one's true intentions, but undestands the circumstances.

IX
helen

Originally posted by helen670
But Chrsitianity CONDEMS SUICIDE PERIOD!!!

Er, did you know Islam condemns suicide bombing too?

Originally poster by helen670
This holds onto nothing.
How many suicide bombers have appeared on VIDEO tapes with holding the Koran and then have gone ahead and bombed innocent people in public places?

Bombs and chemical warfare, as suspected in this case, is very very different my dear friend. Bombs instantaneously massacres within a certain radius whereas chemical warfare is much more deadly as it can spread far and wide. So the fact that they watch the match just goes to show they're weren't planning any acts of terror. If a terrorist wants to kill wouldn't they have hit the button the moment the surrounding is packed for maximum damage?

Originally posted by helen670
Obviously Islam does not see anything wrong with suicide bombings?
Am I wrong in this?
To give up one Muslim life for defending ones faith in killing many innocent people is not considered anything Wrong, in Islam.......am I wrong?

Give me a text from any true Islamic source that condones such action. Keep yourself informed before shooting the gun. Moreover, let's not forget the Christian crusades and inquisitors ya?

Originally posted by helen670
These people may have been innocent in their prayers during the game, but with the world in FEAR of SUICIDE BOMBINGS......what else can people do?

So you're saying because of the "fear of suicide bombing" we should be wary of every Arab and Muslim? And that we should take careful steps to ensure they're put aside, thoroughly checked and if they're clean then let them walk free? Makes me wonder of discrimination. Don't you? Guess not.

Originally posted by helen670
If one is in a Muslim country, then one must behave like a muslim.......must dress like a muslim or else finds himself/herself being prosecuted.....Ins't that true?

Yes. Depends on which country you're referring to. Don't generalise because there is hardline and moderate ones. Take your pick.

Originally posted by helen670
If one is in a Christian country, then one must understand that GOD understands this and being an ALL KNOWING GOD, will allow one prayer session to go unnoticed.
God does not condemn one's true intentions, but undestands the circumstances.

Make no mistake, in the early days (and even today) during the spread of Islam and when many major Christian cities are taken, Non-muslims are allowed to practise they religion freely.

Looking through one view is easy but looking through numerous views gives you the respect.

Islam says that it is okay to defend your country....

Chrsitianity is against all violence.......Jesus Christ taught this.......whether Christians do this or not is not Christian Teaching.....God will judge!

Maybe they wanted to watch the game first and who knows what?

Im not judging!

Christian Crusades ?
This again is not TRUE CHRISTIANITY......not what Christ taught His Apostles........and not what TRUE Christianity is about!

Not that we should be aware of Arabs and Muslims..........aware period!

Muslim Country.......women to cover up in the streets where there seen by men........this was a documantary I saw on tv......women can be jailed for going out in public not covering up their hair..,.....my cousin worked there a few yrs back.......his wife neede to be in a head scarf covered up in hot weather.....only fair, since this was the law set by this country.....why should the law change?

eg///Turkey........where is the freedom of Religion there?
Pay high TAX in order to be there........this has been going on for many years without people fully realising Christians tolerance.

Same goes with a Christian country......eg/In Jerusalem in the Holy Sepulcher, women must wear proper length dress and not appear like she is at the beach or a party.........this is fair enough .


The spread of Islam is by the sword........the spread of Christianity is Love......

To what MAN does is his own .....God be the Judge.

by the way, my neighbours are muslim.....they are very nice and condemn hatred as I do.....
You HATE THE SIN and not the SINNER.......

IX
helen

They were near a major airduct for the stadium, so they could have been pouring poison or some biological agent into it.

I think the area has since been totally closed off so no one can get near it.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
They were near a major airduct for the stadium, so they could have been pouring poison or some biological agent into it.

I think the area has since been totally closed off so no one can get near it.

and how could do they do that? oh let me guess they just bend their knees and pray and out of nowhere poison would go into the stadium am i correct? really lame.......

Originally posted by djohnsto77
They were near a major airduct for the stadium, so they could have been pouring poison or some biological agent into it.

Better to be safe that sorry. A future directive should require any Muslims(or Muslim-looking types for that matter) who are seen near air ducts, drains, pipelines, water supplies and any other forms of public infrastructure to be rounded up for immediate interrogation!

NR/

It's not in the 'knee bending'!

Muslim prayer is fully flat out to the ground............

What djohn/ is saying is that ANYONE being near the air ducts were cause for CONCERN!
As he pointed out that this ''area being closed off''

eg/
I went into a shopping centre with a few bags in my hands, I asked if I could leave them behind the desk as they were heavy to walk around the store, I was not allowed because of store policy ......CONCERN is for everyone, not just Arabs and Muslims......

IX
helen

Originally posted by helen670
Chrsitianity is against all violence.......Jesus Christ taught this.......whether Christians do this or not is not Christian Teaching.....God will judge!

Christian Crusades ?
This again is not TRUE CHRISTIANITY......not what TRUE Christianity is about!

Now replace Christianity/Christians with Islam/Muslims and Jesus Christ with Mohammed and thats exactly what Islam teaches. (Born and raised as a Muslim)

Sure, NR, out of nowhere. Please, think about what you are pounding out on the keyboard.

Heartagram, you might not want to go down the path of the Crusades as some of us know more than the revised history, and we know that the Crusades were a result of Islamic aggression. No need in trying to redirect this thread, is there? You might also want to explain what type of long distance litmus test can be used to tell the "real" Muslims from all these fakes and frauds who have been killing westerners by the bushelfull for decades, now. "Allah Akbar" seems to be their favorite last words.

Sure, NR, out of nowhere. Please, think about what you are pounding out on the keyboard.

Its just that most muslims have been fasting for the past month and since its finished now they have to celebrate ramadan meaning alot of prayers has to be done and goes back to the same thing over and over again. I myself cannot fast not even within a day.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by NR]

Now replace Christianity/Christians with Islam/Muslims and Jesus Christ with Mohammed and thats exactly what Islam teaches. (Born and raised as a Muslim)

That is the most ignorant/propaganda statement I've seen on here in a while. Why don't you actually read the bible(King James version) before speaking nonsense.
Btw, don't Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet? Christ said He was The Son Of God. You don't believe that, but you accept Him as a prophet? He is either who He said He was or He is the biggest lier to ever live.

Scenario A:

-A fan runs to the security office and breathlessly reports a "bunch of arabs" gathering around an air duct and chanting together.

-you pull it up on the BigBrotherCam, and there they are.

What do you do?

A. Send some agents down there to observe more closely.
B. Let the guys finish, but ask them what's up.
C. Look in the airduct, to see if there's any parcels, packages, puddles of ooze, or anything else in there.
D. Question the people in the adjoining stands, to ask them what they saw.
E. Lecture the citizen about minding his/her own business, and go back to watching the game.
F. Some of these, with particular attention to not interrupting ANYONE's enjoyment of the game.
G. Something else.


Scenario B.

You are watching the BigBrotherCam, and see a bunch of people gathered around an airvent. They are all blonde, with similar haircuts. They are all wearing cammo fatigues. A fan rushes to the security post, and says that the wierd guys are all chanting Bible scripture in unison. What do you do???

. Send some agents down there to observe more closely.
B. Let the guys finish, but ask them what's up.
C. Look in the airduct, to see if there's any parcels, packages, puddles of ooze, or anything else in there.
D. Question the people in the adjoining stands, to ask them what they saw.
E. Lecture the citizen about minding his/her own business, and go back to watching the game.
F. Some of these, with particular attention to not interrupting ANYONE's enjoyment of the game.
G. Something else.


Personally, my response would be about the same in either scenario. Because the second most lethal attack in US history was carried out by white separatist, some of whom got financial support from a particular religious/political movement that appealed to religion in the process.

F. would probably be important for me.

P.S. I kind of feel like those guys at the game were probably drawing attention to themselves, either "prosletizing by example," or hoping to start a "religious freedom incedent." Hardsell christians do that, too. I don't have a lot of sympathy for it in either case. (Christian, myself.)

Originally posted by shire19
Now replace Christianity/Christians with Islam/Muslims and Jesus Christ with Mohammed and thats exactly what Islam teaches. (Born and raised as a Muslim)

Are you trying to say Jesus was born and raised a Muslim? How can that be since he was born like over 600 years before Islam started? Jesus was a Jew. Even Mohammad wasn't born and raised a Muslim, he came up with the religion himself.

Think I've been misunderstood, I was trying to say that the teachings that Christianity have regarding peace and no violence is the same teachings Islam has.

Think I've wrote it wrong, sorry.

And regarding the "Born and raised as Muslim", I was reffering to myself.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by shire19]

ok, shire19, I understand now....sorry for the misunderstanding

Originally posted by Heartagram

Originally posted by helen670
But Chrsitianity CONDEMS SUICIDE PERIOD!!!

Er, did you know Islam condemns suicide bombing too?

Originally poster by helen670
This holds onto nothing.
How many suicide bombers have appeared on VIDEO tapes with holding the Koran and then have gone ahead and bombed innocent people in public places?

Bombs and chemical warfare, as suspected in this case, is very very different my dear friend. Bombs instantaneously massacres within a certain radius whereas chemical warfare is much more deadly as it can spread far and wide. So the fact that they watch the match just goes to show they're weren't planning any acts of terror. If a terrorist wants to kill wouldn't they have hit the button the moment the surrounding is packed for maximum damage?

Originally posted by helen670
Obviously Islam does not see anything wrong with suicide bombings?
Am I wrong in this?
To give up one Muslim life for defending ones faith in killing many innocent people is not considered anything Wrong, in Islam.......am I wrong?

Give me a text from any true Islamic source that condones such action. Keep yourself informed before shooting the gun. Moreover, let's not forget the Christian crusades and inquisitors ya?

Originally posted by helen670
These people may have been innocent in their prayers during the game, but with the world in FEAR of SUICIDE BOMBINGS......what else can people do?

So you're saying because of the "fear of suicide bombing" we should be wary of every Arab and Muslim? And that we should take careful steps to ensure they're put aside, thoroughly checked and if they're clean then let them walk free? Makes me wonder of discrimination. Don't you? Guess not.

Originally posted by helen670
If one is in a Muslim country, then one must behave like a muslim.......must dress like a muslim or else finds himself/herself being prosecuted.....Ins't that true?

Yes. Depends on which country you're referring to. Don't generalise because there is hardline and moderate ones. Take your pick.

Originally posted by helen670
If one is in a Christian country, then one must understand that GOD understands this and being an ALL KNOWING GOD, will allow one prayer session to go unnoticed.
God does not condemn one's true intentions, but undestands the circumstances.

Make no mistake, in the early days (and even today) during the spread of Islam and when many major Christian cities are taken, Non-muslims are allowed to practise they religion freely.

Looking through one view is easy but looking through numerous views gives you the respect.

Why do people constantly use the crusades as a great action of christian evil? Sure many innocents were killed, as always occurs in war. The crusades were simply the christian counter-offensive against Islam.

The muslims had taken almost all the christian empire by force between 630 and 1100. They had invaded and taken christian/jewish palestine/judea, most of christian Asia minor, christian spain, christian egypt. The muslims often slaughtered people and forced them to convert.

The crusades were simply the long delayed counter-offensive against muslim aggression. Why do people demonize them so?

Actually *not making this a crusader thread*

The Christian world didn't "go postal" on Islam because of the conquest of Christian nations; the Christians being fond of that practice themselves, and not as hypocritical as modern peoples.

No, the conquest had mostly happened 200 years before the crusades.

Christians got together and jiggy because the new ruler of Jerusalem had banned Christians from visiting the city. There was some butchery, and selling Christian pilgrims in the slave markets, and using Christian girls (and boys) as sex-toys.

Now. Back to the Giants game . . .

First off if anything at all they should have been watched and then once gone the area quickly checked for suspicious signs. Nothing more.

I'm presuming here.. but I'm betting that Air Duct had air coming in (most all buildlings for the last 30 years with ducting has all inlets on top). So number 1 even if they were putting something in there it would not have spread throughout the system.

Number two there is just no evidence pointing to terrorists having chemical/bio weapons yet.

Number three in almost all cases the terrorists have been smart enough to not draw excessive attention to themselves which this did.

Past that EVERYONE around the world must stop fearing terrorism. If we do not fear or respond excessively (like most people do) to terrorism then the reasons for it disapear. Almost everything about terrorism is blown way out of proportion by our money grubbing corrupt media and goverment.

To combat terrorism we need to stop fearing it. We need to go after the perpatrators as more of a police action and through the goverments where they hide. If they will not cooperate then we need to blockade or do whatever we can to force their hand. We must stop applying reckless force in response to attacks and threats. Isreal has shown us how well that works. (ya right)

Islam itself needs to stand up to these fanaticals and show them they are wrong. If they will not do that then I will break down and agree that Islam itself is wrong/evil. The whole of Islam is responsible for those fanatics which use your religion for evil purposes. Stand up and do something about it!

For the average person in the US or most places around the world your more likely to walk out of your house on a sunny day and get struck by lightning then to be hit by terrorists.

Are you afraid of Cars? In 2004 42,636 people in the US died from automobiles. Thats 10 times more Americans then have died throughout history from terrorism.

Fire, weather, poisoning, electricution all claim more US lives then terrorism.

Even in Isreal you still would have a much much better chance of dieing from something other then a terrorist.

If you live in Iraq you have about as good a chance dieing from a US bomb as a Terrorist one.

Originally posted by Heartagram

Er, did you know Islam condemns suicide bombing too?

Which is why we should call it "martyrdom".

It is out of discussion that suicide is Islamically forbidden. It is considered as one of the greatest wrong-doings after Al-Shirk "polytheism", for Allah says: "Do not kill yourselves. Allah is merciful to you, but he that does that through wickedness and injustice shall be burnt in fire. That is easy enough for Allah".

It is important to know that suicide is forbidden because of its evil objectives; such as impatience, desperation or any other bad and evil objects. In Jundob Bin Junada's Hadith, the Prophet (s.a.w.) said: "In the past, there was a wounded man who impatiently cut his hand bleeding to death, Allah said: 'my slave took the first step to death, he is forbidden to enter Paradise'." So, killing one's self this way is "suicide" as it is Islamically pointless, meaningless and intentionally suicidal.

But.....

On the other hand, the one who contributes his life to the cause of Allah, Islam and Muslims his doing is sacrificial; he gives his life away for Islam and Muslims, which is the highest sacrifice.

The history of Islam is full of heroic and sacrificial events. It is narrated by Abu Dawood through one of the Prophet's companions, he said: "we mounted an attacked on a part of Hunain, one of us followed an unbeliever to kill him, by a mistake killed himself. The prophet (s.a.w.) said: 'O, Muslims... your brother'. We rushed to check him, but found him dead. The Prophet (s.a.w.) wrapped him with his own clothes and his blood on him, then performed the prayer of the dead, the Prophet's companions asked: is he a martyr? He said: "he is, and I am a witness". Therefore, the one who blows up the enemies of Allah by blowing up himself as well cannot be considered a suicide, and he is, Allah willing, a martyr.

link

Clearly the lesson here is in the wording. Since westerners believe differently we see any person blowing himself up as suicidal and by that definition it is against Islamic religion, but if you use a word such as “martyrdom” then it becomes glorified.