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Muslims detained after prayers at Giants Stadium.

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posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Xerrog
Islam itself needs to stand up to these fanaticals and show them they are wrong. If they will not do that then I will break down and agree that Islam itself is wrong/evil. The whole of Islam is responsible for those fanatics which use your religion for evil purposes. Stand up and do something about it!


Islam as a whole is trying too as I've seen the Muslim councils in US/UK condemn the terrorist attacks and trying to keep the young muslims from having their minds poisoned, but you have to understand that the actions of the West that causes these effects are mainly based in ME (where a huge number of Muslims reside), so Im guessing most of these terrorists used to be true Muslims in a way till they somehow got affected by the actions of others in such a way that they decided to manipulate the writings of the Quran to justify their purpose (for example Jihad).

But no one hardly just wakes up someday and decides to blow themselves up for the sheer fun of it.




posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Christians got together and jiggy because the new ruler of Jerusalem had banned Christians from visiting the city. There was some butchery, and selling Christian pilgrims in the slave markets, and using Christian girls (and boys) as sex-toys.

Now. Back to the Giants game . . .


if you look in history you will see when Jerusalum was controled by muslims
after being recaputured by Saladin
everyone was aloud to visit the holy site freely and practice their religon.
and when it was taken back Non muslims were not butcherd ( maybe some of the crusaders )

even in the western world they dont speek ill of him (shame muslim leaders arent like that these days)



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Actually *not making this a crusader thread*

The Christian world didn't "go postal" on Islam because of the conquest of Christian nations; the Christians being fond of that practice themselves, and not as hypocritical as modern peoples.

No, the conquest had mostly happened 200 years before the crusades.

Christians got together and jiggy because the new ruler of Jerusalem had banned Christians from visiting the city. There was some butchery, and selling Christian pilgrims in the slave markets, and using Christian girls (and boys) as sex-toys.

Now. Back to the Giants game . . .


Well technically the crusades were started when the Byzantine Emperor Alexis Commenus(sp) made a plea to the pope urban II for help. The moslem turks were taking christian asia minor and moving toward constantinople. The pope saw this as a way to unify the eastern and western churches and to extend his influence. He made the call for crusade and over 100,000 took it up.

The moslems did not slaughter the christians in jerusalem despight saladins pledge to do exactly that. If you have ever seen Kingdom of Heaven you will no why.(although the movie is sometimes innacurate in exact facts).

The exact reasons for the crusades occuring are irrelevent. The point being that it is wrong to demonize them as an act of christian aggression. The christians had been on the defensive for 400 years. Islam had its own crusade to conquer the christian world.

It did not succeed due to moslem defeats at tours and twice at the gates of vienna.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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i dont use movies for learning history
search it on google
and you will get plenty of sites



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by NR
Its just that most muslims have been fasting for the past month and since its finished now they have to celebrate ramadan meaning alot of prayers has to be done and goes back to the same thing over and over again. I myself cannot fast not even within a day.


[edit on 5-11-2005 by NR]


This is what made them appear extremely suspicious and up to no good and why they obviously didn't fit in with the typical American. The ability to go without eating all day long? Must be a bunch of foreigners!

Ok, before any of you throw bricks at me for that shot at us being so fat, remember, if you make me bleed all over the place, one of you will be tasked with cleaning up the mess!



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:21 PM
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You can't use a film to prove your point. If we all belived the movies, then WW2 would be known as just America vs Japan + Germany.

Anyway if you wanted to do something spectacular at a big stadium, somehow taking everyone inside hostage or blowing it up would be more spectacular, and would get the terrorists point across better than pouring sarin through a vent.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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Better safe than sorry....these Muslims picked a lousey location to pray to Allah.

Im an HVAC engineer and if this was a fresh-air intake...no survailence would have been quick enough to stop a man from injecting a chemical into the air-grille and killing hundreds...maybe thousands.

So, instead of educating us Americans about Islam (I know all I need to know about Islam), they better watch their step and use some common-sense in the future.

Course, Im sure a civil lawsuit is in the works.

Maximu§



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Couple of YOU need to read up on the Crusades. Maybe an actual book, and not the internet.

Saladin was born 1138 AD, and supervised the Muslim reconquest of crusader holdings.

I was talking about the First Crusade, and why it started:
en.wikipedia.org...

The first crusade began in 1095, 40 years before Saladinn was born.

On a "dr. nelsons' "page on Medieval lectures, at, looks like the University of Kansas:

under intermediate causes of The first crusade,7, appears the following paragraph:



7. Pilgrims returning from the Holy Land were bring home stories of the atrocities being committed by the Seljuk Turks, masters of the Levant, against pilgrims, and of the way in which they were desecrating the places holy to Christians. This caused great outrage, in part because the average western European was better acquainted with the Bible lands than any place other than their own villages and towns. The Holy Land was the Christians "other home."

www.ku.edu...


Yeah. Saladin was a great guy. A lot better than most of his rivals and even his own countrymen.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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internet i can read more then one source
book well thats just from ones person prospective


isnt en.wikipedia.org... what people add information to very reliable


site one

site 2

crusades

cant be asked to put in the other 815,000 sites lol ( beats a book though
)



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:16 PM
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Without a complete ban of religion in public or else a complete acceptance for each religions different needs, things like this will always happen. You can't go after a group of people because they have a stigma attached to them. If it's a worry that Muslims can pray in public, then they should have a space set out for them in arenas like this knowing full well the game will run through a pray time and Muslims will need to pray.

More importantly, since when do air-ducts suck in air? Most intakes are on the OUTSIDE of the building. Even if they were planning on releasing a virus, it would most likely just blow back into their faces.

Obvious case of profiling here.



Originally posted by Prodicaliforniason



Now replace Christianity/Christians with Islam/Muslims and Jesus Christ with Mohammed and thats exactly what Islam teaches. (Born and raised as a Muslim)


That is the most ignorant/propaganda statement I've seen on here in a while. Why don't you actually read the bible(King James version) before speaking nonsense.
Btw, don't Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet? Christ said He was The Son Of God. You don't believe that, but you accept Him as a prophet? He is either who He said He was or He is the biggest lier to ever live.



Um, no Paul said Jesus was the son of God, Jesus actually denied it like most religious icons, such as the Buddah, he said don't turn me into the Son of God when i die. Mark 8:27 - 8:30 explains this, thou with Pauls gospel twist of course:

Mark 8:27
Jesus went out, with his disciples, into the villages of Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that I am?"
Mark 8:28
They told him, "John the Baptizer, and others say Elijah, but others: one of the prophets."
Mark 8:29
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "You are the Christ."
Mark 8:30
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

Surviving texts, especially the thousands found in the Buddist temples of a man named Isis, show a HUMAN that inspired thousands of people and forged a new line of wisdom into humanity.

Today's Christianity is so far removed from what the real Jesus teachings that it should be called Paulinism as he's the one who turned Jesus' teachings into a gospel about Jesus being the Son of God. He used fables which have been repeated throughout history before and after Jesus was born to create the story which is today's modern tale.

No doubt Jesus was a great man and taught a lot of amazing things but his life has been butchered and abused to something which would disgust him today but to really understand him and to really understand the origins of Christanity, you need to research Jesus as a human being and not a biblical fact. Discover the missing 20 - 30 years of his life Paul left out and you'll find the person that he truley was, rather than believing a tale which was already told 2000 years earlier with Krishna and other deities. Most of the bibles iconic moments are from previous religious tales, history can prove that without a doubt.

If a person really values the true word of Jesus, they wouldn't be afraid to research him from every angle possible and the more i do, the more i realise Buddhism is the closest thing to what Jesus spoke of and that he garnered a lot of his wisdom from years of studying with Buddhists in India (which at that time, India included Pakistan and even as high as Iran).

Seriously, beside the parts Paul wrote which say, you MUST obey what i've written and follow the Christian rules - is this not what Jesus spoke of:



The teaching of Buddha (call him God or Jesus if that helps) that life is permeated with suffering caused by desire, that suffering ceases when desire ceases, and that enlightenment obtained through right conduct, wisdom, and meditation releases one from desire, suffering, and rebirth.


Christianity, like Islam, is a control method more than a religion and both have been used to wage wars since their creations - still fighting today acutally.

Buddhism has the message but doesn't have the binding rules. This is what Jesus spoke of. He didn't mention homosexuality once, he didn't say he was the Son of God, he didn't say no matter how well you live, if you don't worship me your going to hell - these are all control methods devised by the human hands which wrote the 'instuction manual'.

There should be no shame in knowing this if your a true Christian who values the good of the message rather than the rules of the book.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Without a complete ban of religion in public or else a complete acceptance for each religions different needs, things like this will always happen. You can't go after a group of people because they have a stigma attached to them. If it's a worry that Muslims can pray in public, then they should have a space set out for them in arenas like this knowing full well the game will run through a pray time and Muslims will need to pray.


Perhaps if the US were a Muslim country they could set out a place for Muslims to pray but THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A MUSLIM COUNTRY AND SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO OUT OF IT'S WAY TO PLEASE MUSLIMS!!!

When in Rome do as the Romans do!!!

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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So Muslims should convert to Christianity if they live in America?

I don't think it's necessary for the stadium to accommodate any religious group. But to say "When in Rome do as the Romans do," what exactly do the "romans" do in this case? People do have a right to pray don't they?
Or is it that they are Americans they have to drop their religion?




[edit on 5/11/2005 by Umbrax]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Hehe, I like dr_strangecraft's posts in this thread.

The way I see it, there are always gonna be people acting freaky on purpose to draw attention to themselves - I remember a similar thing happened on an airplane not too long ago, wherein some Muslims were taking turns going to the bathroom and behaving suspiciously just for kicks.

This type of thing happens all the damn time without regard to religion or appearance. Teens just love to act like they're causing trouble when they really aren't, just to mess around with authority figures or with their fellow teens. People love to test limits and boundaries. It's human nature. If you are begging for attention, don't be surprised when you draw it.

Anyway, the Saints need all the prayer they can get.

Zip



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
So Muslims should convert to Christianity if they live in America?


They should move to a Muslim country if they wish to fully practice the Islamic traditions like praying at public sporting events.

I know that some Muslims were born in the US and Europe or converted to Islam in those countries but I don't understand why some Muslims move to non-Islamic countries if they want to practice their faith as if they still lived in Muslim countries.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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to answer your question, No.

But as Justice Brandeis once pointed out, free speech doesn't entitle you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater.

But if my religion freaks people out, then I shouldn't be surprised when they actually freak out about my differences, and are worried because they wouldn't even know how to assess me as a threat.

If I practice santeria, if I pray by waving a sword and decapitating chickens, it is my right (in states without animal abuse laws.). But I wouldn't do it at a Giants' game.

Or people might freak out.

Are you telling me that there were only 5 Muslims at this game????

Or were their others, who chose to pray without pushing non-muslim buttons in a crowded public space?



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
They should move to a Muslim country if they wish to fully practice the Islamic traditions like praying at public sporting events.


It was Ramadan, they are not praying for the sport event. During Ramadan they have to pray at certain times of the day. They were at the game, they enjoy Football like many other Americans do and it was time to pray.

In the city I live in we have a high population of Muslims. I see them pray in all sorts of places. They usually do it somewhere that is a little private, like or a corner, or in this case by a vent. The first time I seen it I thought the guy was being weird, just like those security men did.

Why did they move to America instead of a "Muslim country"? Who knows. Maybe because they heard that America is the land of tolerance. America is a free country full of diversity in race and religion. People shouldn't be expected to abandon their religion in a free country.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
Why did they move to America instead of a "Muslim country"? Who knows. Maybe because they heard that America is the land of tolerance. America is a free country full of diversity in race and religion. People shouldn't be expected to abandon their religion in a free country.


Maybe it shouldn't be a free country, just as the Muslim nations aren't free.
I honestly think Islam should be banned in all non-Islamic countries to stop them from taking over.
They do have a long history of taking over other nations so don't act as like it's not a possibility for them to try.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Without a complete ban of religion in public or else a complete acceptance for each religions different needs, things like this will always happen. You can't go after a group of people because they have a stigma attached to them. If it's a worry that Muslims can pray in public, then they should have a space set out for them in arenas like this knowing full well the game will run through a pray time and Muslims will need to pray.


Perhaps if the US were a Muslim country they could set out a place for Muslims to pray but THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A MUSLIM COUNTRY AND SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO OUT OF IT'S WAY TO PLEASE MUSLIMS!!!

When in Rome do as the Romans do!!!

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AceOfBase]



Well, it's better than freaking out each time they go about their business. They don't have to build shrines for them but they could say, this area will be free since we know it's Ramadan, please do us a favor by praying there since we're doing you the favor of providing space. You've paid for your ticket, so like the other services we provide our patrons, here's a place for you. It will save us freaking out each time you bend over and it will save you being singled out to a point where you do you resent and hate us.

Like i said, if your not comfortable with relgion then banish it in public all together, don't let people where a cross when they are dry humping on a rap video, don't let people pray in public, don't let mormans advertise on TV etc etc, otherwise your country is working itself into a state where it will be forfilling self created prophecy simply by it's unwillingness to accept others.

Like the guy said, he's as American as Apple Pie, this is just his religion.
You of all people Ace know that America was NOT founded on Christianity.





[edit on 6-11-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Maybe it shouldn't be a free country, just as the Muslim nations aren't free.
I honestly think Islam should be banned in all non-Islamic countries to stop them from taking over.
They do have a long history of taking over other nations so don't act as like it's not a possibility for them to try.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AceOfBase]


oh please say that was sarcastic
if not you should really do some research
Muslims have been in america before and after 1530 (they were Black slaves brought in)



site
African slaves arrive in America. During the slave trade, more than 10 million Africans were uprooted from their homes and brought to American shores. Many of these slaves were from the Fulas, Fula Jallon, Fula Toro, and Massiona as well as other areas of West Africa. These areas were governed from their capital, "Timbuctu." These slaves were sent to Mexico, Cuba, and South America. More than 30 percent of these 10 million slaves were Muslim. They became the backbone of the American economy


Use full sites


also i havent done UK and so because ur an american right?
if u want the facts about other countries
just replace America in the google search with what ever country u want


[edit on 6-11-2005 by bodrul]



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul more than 10 million Africans were uprooted from their homes and brought to American shores. Many of these slaves were from the Fulas, Fula Jallon, Fula Toro, and Massiona as well as other areas of West Africa. These areas were governed from their capital, "Timbuctu." These slaves were sent to Mexico, Cuba, and South America. More than 30 percent of these 10 million slaves were Muslim. They became the backbone of the American economus_hist.html]site[/url]


That was an interesting site, thanks.
I was unaware of the Muslim explorer of America.
It seems that even back then they were trying to demand wealth and women.



tsha.utexas.edu

Separated by several days' travel from Niza, Esteban approached Cíbola, thought today to be the pueblo of Hawikuh, and announced his intentions to make peace and heal the sick. He told the villagers that he had been sent by white men who would soon arrive and instruct them in divine matters. The village elders, suspicious of his claims that he came from a land of white men because he was dark, and resentful of his demands for turquoise and women, killed him when he attempted to enter the village. Hawikuh, the southernmost of the seven pueblos known as the Seven Cities of Cíbola,qv was located fifteen miles southwest of the site of present Zuni, New Mexico.


I'm not sure about that 30% of African slaves though.




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