NEWS: Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction

I do not support the Taliban, however I do not support the Northern Alliance. Do you support them?

Because, I see no major difference between either of the groups.

Do you even know how the Taliban gained power? The internal war which happened in 1996 with the Northern Alliance? The fact they [Northern Alliance] split into two groups over who could keep control of the [underage] sex trade they had going on?

I am sorry, but I do not support WarLords, Drug Lords or Pimps nor would I make an alliance with them. So what is the major difference between them and terrorist organisations? Both kill innocent people, however drug lords tend to do a lot more damage. Especailly with how much opium is coming from Afganistan. I do believe now ranked first in the World, a head of Burma.

That is not liberation.
That is not freedom.

They allowed Afganistan to be taken over by drug lords, people who are just as bad as someone who kills an innocent person.

Originally posted by subz
So what are you trying to tell us Riwka? When Palestinians blow up innocent people they are terrorists, but when Israel's founding fathers do it its ok and they get airports named after them?

The difference is: israel does not target civillians. When the Israelis are attacked, do you expect them to sit and do nothing? There as to be repercussions. But when the cowardly palestinian terrorist HIDE AMONG their women and children, Guess what?? There are going to be women and children killed.

The Palestinins, on the other hand, don't discriminate military targets from civillian targets--despite the fact that Israel HAS military bases and other military targets. The palestinians ride on urban busses and intentionally kill civillians. That's the difference.

No one has yet commented in favor of the Palestinians on the fact the Irael gave the Gaza Strip back to them, as a gesture of gool will; and yet despite this, the palestinians continue to kill Israeli civillians. They have stated that they will continue to attack Israel to drive them out completely. Why is it that there has been no proclamtions, on the part of Israel, to "wipe out" the Palestinians?

I ask again: What is it about the Palestinians that they continue to attack Israel despite Israel return the Gaza strip to them!?!!!!!!!

Can one of you Palestinian proponents answer this question???

Ohh, so because they "target" someone in a civilian area than it is O.K?

So what of the bombing of Chowkar-Karez?

The United States assumed that these people supported the Taliban and thus attacked them. This was fine...because they supported a political ideology the United States didn't agree with. [1]

This is no different when a Palestinian attacks a civilian area, they agree with the "Zionist" ideology as much as those villiagers did. However, I do not see a massive outcry against the United States for the same action.

Both bombing terrorists and Israeli's is bombing someone who believes in a political ideology. I doubt many of the people in Israel do not disagree with the idea of a "Jewish Homeland".

On a most basic level Israel has killed over a thousand more people and injured over ten-thousand more.

Source
Since then, there have been 6,739 Israeli casualties, including 862 deaths, and 23,593 Palestinian casualties, including 2,233 dead.

Yet, in all the reports I have seen I have yet to see even 1000 terrorists killed. In fact, over 500 of those were children I do believe. So the Israeli Goverment has killed nearly as many children as they have totel dead during this war. Many military bases are in Civilian areas as well, primarily due to the size of the Nation. Aqaba is an example of this in the West Bank. [Prior to them leaving.]

You also miss the point, so what if they gave the Gaza Strip back? It is not what they want. Shared rule of Jerusalum is and the only way that can happen is to give it over to a National form of Goverment. Why would that be so hard for them? The area is important to Christian, Jew and Muslim. So do the gesture of "good will" and do it to a level which will keep the majority of the World happy. In fact over 3billion people.

You also have to remember this land means nothing to the people who lost family - especailly innocent members of their family. That will take so long for it to heal and while those people are alive and Israel keeps on bombing civilian areas [which is the same] they will only help to make the situation worse.

[1]http://www.swans.com/library/art7/gowans12.html

Originally posted by Odium
I do not support the Taliban, however I do not support the Northern Alliance. Do you support them?

Because, I see no major difference between either of the groups.

The Northern Alliance had been fighting the Taliban for years. We needed to elliminate the Taliban as they were harboring the very terrorists responsibe for the largest attack on Americn Soil since Pearl Harbor. You seem to imply that the Northern Alliance is responsible for the drug trade, etc. Please site your sources as I'm not sure about this. Regardless, It was not our goal to put the Northern Alliance into power. Our goal was to remove the Taliban and put into place a government that would represent, in time, the interests of all Afganis. Therefore, the Northern Alliance is not in power. In fact, they are relatively impotent.

Originally posted by Odium
That is not liberation.
That is not freedom.

Really? Why don't you ask the Afghanis who lived under the oppressive Taliban regime how they feel about that? In today's world centered around fast food and instant gratification, I think most have forgotten that I takes years to establish a constitutional process. You're not going to see the "free" westernized society in Afghanistan for several years yet to come. There will be growing pains. Surely, you must agree, however, that it is a GOOD THING that the Taliban is outta there!

Source
The Afghan challenge is tougher by some measures than the Colombian one. In the Colombian case, drug revenue amounts to about 3.5 percent of legal economic output; in Afghanistan the share is more than 50 percent. The opium trade has boomed since the fall of the Taliban regime three years ago, generating payments to farmers of $2.2 billion in 2002-03, 15 times more than in the two years leading up to the Taliban's departure. A determined counternarcotics offensive, particularly one that focuses on crop eradication, risks generating a backlash against the fragile democratic government.

Source
The Alliance, which has won American support in its battle against the
Taliban, produced 150 metric tonnes of opium this year, according to Mohammad Amirkhizi, senior policy adviser at the United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention.

Source
A survey by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime has found that Afghanistan has supplanted Burma as the world's largest source of illegal heroin. There are now 741 square kilometres of land being used to cultivate opium poppies in Afghanistan, compared to just 78km2 prior to the US invasion in late 2001.

I can go on all day. The Northern Alliance helped take over of Afganistan once they left, their 40,000 troops merged with the Afganistan Armed forces and it is likely they still hold alligance to the drug lords who used to pay them. In fact undermining the Goverment.

Source
The reporting of heroin/opiate-related deaths was highest in Detroit (464) and Philadelphia (111).

Yet in the period prior to that more people will have died from heroin than did on September the 11th. More people have died after from heroin abuse as well.

I do not agree with the Taliban however rampent destruction on people not directly involved in September the 11th isn't something I wish to put my name to. Nor do I agree that the Northern Alliance are better - who I personnaly believe have killed more people through the drug trade than the Taliban ever did. I would rather neither group could spread their hate, however I do not believe either group should have been backed by the United States over the other. Especailly when the factor in the Sex Trade and other events that the Northern Alliance were involved in.

Originally posted by Odium
Ohh, so because they "target" someone in a civilian area than it is O.K?

Not someone. Brutal murderous cowards.

Originally posted by Odium
So what of the bombing of Chowkar-Karez?

Don't know anything about this--I'll have to look it up.

Originally posted by Odium
The United States assumed that these people supported the Taliban and thus attacked them. This was fine...because they supported a political ideology the United States didn't agree with. [1]

Maybe it's because they supported an ideology that was responsible for harboring the murderers of about 3000 people (innocent civillians) in one day, not even to mention the thousands killed before 911. We gave them a chance to turn them over to us--they didn't. I suppose if you were the leader of a ntion attacked like this you would just say "Oh well. Hopefully we wont be attacked again. Maybe they got it out of their system now. Maybe we should talk nicely to them and maybe we can get them to like us so they don't attack us again." Ya Right!! You would be impeeched!!!!

Originally posted by Odium
This is no different when a Palestinian attacks a civilian area, they agree with the "Zionist" ideology as much as those villiagers did. However, I do not see a massive outcry against the United States for the same action.

What same action?? Show me where it is that our soldiers strap on bombs, go into crowded areas, and intentionally kill civillians.

Originally posted by Odium
You also miss the point, so what if they gave the Gaza Strip back? It is not what they want. Shared rule of Jerusalum is and the only way that can happen is to give it over to a National form of Goverment. Why would that be so hard for them?

The peace process is a slow one. Do you really expect Israelis to concede on every issue the Palestinians have in one day? Week? Year? It's a process of continual negotiation that requires mutual trust--AND TIME. Israel stepped forward with the return of Gaza. The palestinians stepped up with continued threats and attacks.

A barrister is training? You've got a lot to learn!!

Originally posted by Odium
You also have to remember this land means nothing to the people who lost family - especailly innocent members of their family. That will take so long for it to heal and while those people are alive and Israel keeps on bombing civilian areas [which is the same] they will only help to make the situation worse.

So I geuss Israel should sit back, take the puches, and do NOTHING?? Is that really what you would do?

Freedom_For_Sum, you seem to forge that Zionism started [most recent case 1800's] as a Political Ideolgoy which used terrorism and terrorist tactics. They were responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths. These same people became leaders in Israel once the state was founded.

What is the difference between these people who attacked British and Arab forces and the Taliban who attacked the United States?

Both are a case of a political ideology, both are ones which use violence to get their point across.

So what is the difference when the United States kills a civilian or member of a political ideology for attacking them and what Palestinians do? You are making out as though there is such a large difference between the two and I am afraid there is not.

Zionists attacked Arabs. Atabs attack Zionists.
Taliban attacked United States. United States attacked the Taliban.

You need to move away from the arguement on delivery, a bomb is a bomb. No matter if you drop it from a plane, fire it from a tank [although that is a shell] or strap it to your chest. It will still kill people based on their political ideology.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
A barrister is training? You've got a lot to learn!!

Everyone in society has a lot to learn, nobody knows all and I do not tend to think I do. However this debate has nothing to do with legal issues, so your ability to judge my credentials are highly limited. However the personal attack/jab, doesn't go unnoticed. :-)

Originally posted by subz

You mean the King David Hotel bombing?

So what are you trying to tell us Riwka? When Palestinians blow up innocent people they are terrorists, but when Israel's founding fathers do it its ok and they get airports named after them?

Myths & Facts

MYTH

"The Irgun bombed the King David Hotel as part of a terror campaign against civilians."

FACTS

The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel.

A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain's restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death.

Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties.

In fact, the plan was to warn the British so they would evacuate the building before it was blown up.

Three telephone calls were placed,

one to the hotel,

another to the French Consulate,adjacent to the hotel, to open their windows to prevent blast damage.

and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.


On July 22, 1946, the calls were made.

The French Consulate staff opened their windows as they had been told to by the anonymous woman who telephoned them, and this was further evidence of the warning.

The Palestine Post telephone operator attested on oath to the police that, immediately after receiving the telephone message, she had telephoned the duty officer at the police station.

The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored.
Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: "We don't take orders from the Jews."



As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews.

Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast.

sources: Etzel - jewishvirtual library




[edit on 31-10-2005 by Riwka]

here is a transcript of his speech. apologies if its been posted before

www.iranfocus.com...

an interesting read i'm sure you'll agree

Thanks for bringing this topic back to October 2005.

Originally posted by infinite

You have yet to NAME a right-winged Christian terrorist organization in the US.

what the HELL is the Klu Klux Klan then?

there is "The Order" and "Christian Identity" aswell,


plus the US Republican Party

Well, I did advise him of those groups when he asked and he promptly went a bit quiet about the issue.

Although, I must admit, I did forget the old Republican nutjobs.......

Riwka, what about the other attacks?

WE both know Irgun and Levi have civilian deaths on their hands and they did bomb many targets - not just military based ones.

Do you support their actions?

A funny question. General answer is of course: No. Neither do I support everything before Israel has been established - nor do I support everything Israel undertakes in our days. Serious: Did you expect any other answer? Needless to say, that it is necessary to take a deeper survey into each and every case until an answer could be concrete.

But Odium, this is NOT the topic

"What-Did-The-Jews-Especially the-Zionists-Before-Israel-Has-Been-Established-And How-Do-We-Judge-This-Today"

- this one is "Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction"


[edit on 31-10-2005 by Riwka]

Yes, Riwka and to reach an accurate conclusion you have to look at all the reasons behind the Iranian and Israeli involvement with one another. These actions over the last 50years - primarily the last 33 do effect people in the region and especailly people who do remember them.

If we go off of the article alone and do not bring any background information into a topic we are not denying ignorance at all but helping to spread it. We can only come to a logical conclusion with all the information placed on the table, debated and then concluded. When we all decide if we agree with it or not.

To remove the actions of Israel against members of the Islamic Faith and the Iranian people is foolish and I do not see it as in the spirit of this site at all.

Since you disagree with the actions of Levi, Irgun and other such groups, do you think Israel should have ever been created then since it came from such groups? Born out of fire...

But Odium, this is NOT the topic

"What-Did-The-Jews-Especially the-Zionists-Before-Israel-Has-Been-Established-And How-Do-We-Judge-This-Today"

- this one is "Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction"

Whilst it may not be the thread title, I believe discussing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is pertinent to the topic, otherwise, why else would the Iranians be saying what they say?

Limiting the discussion to how bad Iran is for saying these things without looking at the broader picture and understanding why serves no purpose but to cloud the truth of what is happening and skew the facts. Might I say, a typical Zionist approach that.

Again Odium - this is NOT the topic

"How-And-Why-Has-Israel-Been-Established"

This one is: Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction

A member of the United Nations calls for the destruction of another people. This is a clear contravention and breach of the UN charter.

Please feel free to add your commends according to the topic, ok?





[edit on 31-10-2005 by Riwka]

Yes, let us all remove away from why Iran might call for Israel's destruction.

Look away now.

Thank you, now we will remove all evidence and begin to tell you how bad the Muslim's are. How evil they all are. How Israel has never done anything to harm Arabs. How our views on terrorism are not a double standard.

Thank you, Israel is the poor victim of those evil Islamic Iranian's.

I should have got this straight away. I forgot Israel was always the victim and it is wrong to look at things in context. Never look at what someone says something or the action which it involves but rather just what they do.

Yes, I will enjoy Denying Ignorance when I do it like that.

Thank you Riwka, I was blinded by looking at things in context.

Originally posted by stumason

Whilst it may not be the thread title, I believe discussing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is pertinent to the topic, otherwise, why else would the Iranians be saying what they say?

Put it simply:

because there is the Jewish State of Israel and they do not want a jewish state in the Middle East.

Originally posted by Riwka
Again Odium - this is NOT the topic

"How-And-Why-Has-Israel-Been-Established"

This one is: Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction

A member of the United Nations calls for the destruction of another people. This is a clear contravention and breach of the UN charter.

Please feel free to add your commends according to the topic, ok?

[edit on 31-10-2005 by Riwka]

Thats rich coming from Israel, but a typical and expected response none the less. A "we're the victims all the time" attitude eventually wears thin, as it has done now and not looking at the bigger picture is deliberately trying to obstruct the truth. Again, a typical Zionist approach to try and gain some sympathy.

How many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored? What about the Geneva conventions which are conveniently ignored on a regular basis? Don't start crying about "international charters" and such like if your not prepared to keep up your own bloody commitments either.

If you want to take the moral high ground and hold Iran (or anyone else) accountable to International Law, then perhaps you should actually be on that high ground yourselves, rather than down in the pits with the very people your trying to lay the sole blame on.

Israel is as much to balme for the cycle of violence as anyone else.

And don't start with you whining about how the evil palestinians are blowing up your people, we had the very same for 30 long years from the IRA.

Did you see us bombing Belfast with aircraft when they killed our families and friends?

Did we launch tank raids into the Irish republic to search for bomb factories?

Did we sieze control of Ireland and subject its people to living in ghettos, strangling their economy in the process and fueling the fires of hatred?

Did we use artillery to bombard Dublin because a bus got blown up?

No, we didn't. So why do you do it?

[edit on 31/10/05 by stumason]