Another 'Osama Bin Laden is Dead and Buried.'

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posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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With the hunt for Osama Bin Laden still on, the issue of him being alive or dead remains a hotbed topic of interest for both international media news sources and governments.

The most recent being a Pakistani newspaper that reports:


....that Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden died four months ago in a village near Kandahar of severe illness.


The Ausaf goes on to mention/assert:


According to the newspaper report, Bin Laden was campaigning at Bamiyan, fell very ill, returned to Kandahar where he died and was buried in the Shada graveyard in the shadow of a mountain.

The controversy continues to surround Osama bin Laden and while US and Pakistan officials have often been quoted by the media as saying that his mortal status was just a matter of detail, the hunt is still on and the issue remains a topic of great interest for the media and governments alike.


What was striking was this mention:


Funeral prayers have been said for Osama bin Laden over these years with one reported now by the Ausaf, and another in an Egyptian newspaper Al Wafd as far back as December 2001.

Osama Bin Laden Is Dead And Buried: Multan Newspaper

This is further confounded by a recent Indiadaily.com editorial article:
Osama Bin Laden dead in Pak occupied Kashmir in the massive earthquake?

Here is the above quoted mention of the 2001 Egyptian newspaper Al Wafd article/mention:


Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden’s Death
and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa’da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa’da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

Whither UBL

In doing a bit of researching, the last above quoted from the current Pakistani article mention bears merit.
How so?
In 2002, these were reported:


TEL AVIV — Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said.

Al Qaida terrorists have launched a new campaign of economic warfare and are targeting shipping in the Middle East, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are probably fabrications, Middle East Newsline reported.

But Bin Laden's heir has been chosen and his colleagues have decided to resume Al Qaida's offensive against the United States and Western allies, the sources said.

Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen

And here:


OSAMA bin Laden's supporters yesterday issued a statement on the internet saying he was dead.

The claims, repeated in the Al Bayan newspaper in the United Arab Emirates, said that the al-Qaeda terror chief died when the Americans bombed the Tora Bora mountains in Afghanistan.

The details tally with dates of bombing missions in which US intelligence experts suspected that he may have been killed.

The newspaper's story, headlined, "Yes, Osama bin Laden is dead but the Jihad will continue until Judgement Day'', quotes witness Shahid Ayan saying he perished on December 10, 2001.

He said: "On the 24th night of Ramadan (Dec 10) and at a late hour, there were some scary explosions in the place where Osama bin Laden's cave was.

"The cave was completely erased from the ground and became nothing. This was the only cave of the 15 that was destroyed by an enormous 52ft missile and there is no doubt that bin Laden died.''

BIN LADEN "DEAD"

Here:


"I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ... kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.

Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own personal use," he said.

"I don't know if he has been getting all that treatment in Afghanistan now. And the photographs that have been shown of him on television show him extremely weak. ... I would give the first priority that he is dead and the second priority that he is alive somewhere in Afghanistan."

Musharraf: bin Laden likely dead

A 2002 article has an FBI official believing Osama Bin Laden is dead:


(CBS) FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson said Wednesday he believes Osama bin Laden is dead — the first time a senior U.S. law enforcement official has publicly given an opinion on the al Qaeda leader's status.

Watson, speaking at a conference of law enforcement officials at a downtown hotel, quickly emphasized that he had no evidence that bin Laden was dead, but his comments suggest that the FBI has no intelligence that proves bin Laden is alive.

FBI Official Thinks Bin Laden Is Dead

Here:


An internet news site close to al-Qaeda reported the death of Osama Bin Laden, creating a firestorm in radical Islamic circles.

The report was followed by denials and accusations of a fabrication fostered on the site by foreign agents.

The London-based newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported on Friday that the site Minbar Ahl al-Sunnah wa-al-Jama'ah declared, “We now report that the al-Qaeda organization has announced the death of Osama Bin Laden.”

‘Bin laden dead’
Usama bin Laden is Dead

Undoubtedly, more articles can be pulled asserting and claiming the death of Osama Bin Laden.

The purpose of this topic was two-fold: it brought to light current assertions and claims of Osama Bin Laden's death in relation to past assertions and claims, and to discuss the validity of such continued reportings, as well as to discuss the nature of why there are such claims continually asserting OBL's death and then reports asserting to the contrary.

* Is he dead?
* How do you know, with any validity, whether he is or is not?
* If Al-Qaeda is working for or controlled by an intelligence agency(s), as has been previously asserted by the creation of a recent ATS topic, then why would such an intelligence organization(s) allow or want the news of Al-Qaeda "announcing" the death of OBL released? Why would a controlled Al-Qaeda make such an announcement?
* What is the purpose behind the continued assertions and claims of OBL's death?
* What is the purpose behind the continued assertions and claims that OBL is alive, but ever on the run and/or in hiding?
* If OBL was indeed factually dead, would any government admit such; would Bush and Blair, as with other Coalition nations, admit such?

The politics of OIL aside, why and whom would benefit from Osama Bin Laden being dead or alive? Bear in mind that the $25+ million dollar reward is for his capture, dead or alive.


Two current topics to consider in your responses:
Does the Al Qaeda exist in reality?
'Al-Qaeda' Controlled By Intelligence Agencies

Past relevant ATS topics related to this current topic:
Bin Ladin. Alive or Dead
U.S. officer says Osama may be sick and is in need of medical help.
Bin Laden Possibily "DEAD"
Bin Laden no longer runs al Qaeda
Where is bin Laden? Author locates him alive, well, planning 'American Hiroshima'
We're better off with Bin Laden at large...?
Musharraf Says Bin Laden Trail Has Gone Cold







seekerof

[edit on 23-10-2005 by Seekerof]




posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Nice post, it's been discussed on ATS before, but never with this approach.

I think if the US was smart, they should fess up on if they believe he is dead (via kidney disease/sickness) instead of dragging this out. The man will die a martyr either way.. but if he were to die via natural causes versus a bullet/trial I think the damage would be lessfold.

There's absolutly no reason whatsoever to claim he is still alive. If the US gov is as twisted as some people claim (re: 9/11) then they don't need OBL alive.. they have the entire Alqueda to blame.. it's much easier to blame an entire organization without naming names.. then it is to blame one man

If you want my honest opinion, the coalition probably thinks he's dead. They probably have some sort of proof of his death/funeral considering how deeply they're entrenched in the AQ organization (considering they are). But I don't think they have enough evidence to prove to the world he is dead..

And besides, his life means nothing to the "movement".. his life was only an excuse.

[edit on 10/23/2005 by QuietSoul]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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as much as i want to see Osama dead and his body on tv, i would not discount dat he is still alive until there is absolute proof. also the Al Qaida would have said somthing about his death to make him a martyr to the Muslim population so dat he died fighting the all powerful infidel crusaders and dat they also must do the same. i havent seen dat yet so dat pretty much shows dat Osama is still alive unless Al Qaida is embarrassed dat he died from himself or by Allah, or by earthquake or watever which would tell the world how pathetic he is. Al Qaida would have alot of explaining to do as to why Allah would allow the savior to die by natural causes. seriously explaining.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
as much as i want to see Osama dead and his body on tv, i would not discount dat he is still alive until there is absolute proof. also the Al Qaida would have said somthing about his death to make him a martyr to the Muslim population so dat he died fighting the all powerful infidel crusaders and dat they also must do the same. i havent seen dat yet so dat pretty much shows dat Osama is still alive unless Al Qaida is embarrassed dat he died from himself or by Allah, or by earthquake or watever which would tell the world how pathetic he is. Al Qaida would have alot of explaining to do as to why Allah would allow the savior to die by natural causes. seriously explaining.


I dont know if AQ would fess up over the death. AQ was shamed in Afghanistan.. they were forced to flee and the last thing they needed to announce was the death of their leader.. Martyr maybe.. but martyr of what? Running away from the infidels?


Hell, for all we know, maybe they did announce it.. apparently, according to several news articles (posted by Seekerof) it was announced.. maybe the MSM just chose not to run it for the same reason I stated above.. not enough proof to convince the world.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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I think the Government knows he's dead and that his name and image is just as much as a series of inter-connecting philosophies which favour more than one ideal as it is an acutal group existing which calls itself al-Qaeda.

Rather than coming out and saying so, i think they're holding on to the card so they can play it at the right moment. Be it via a US military triumph or else to release the pressure valve during a political storm.

What will be interesting is who will get the blame on the USA's next attack? - will Osama get it or will he be announced dead before then?

It's all a game, this is a valuable piece on the chess board.



[edit on 23-10-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

What will be interesting is who will get the blame on the USA's next attack - will Osama get it or will he be announced dead before then?



They'll merely blame Al-Queda. How much easier would it be for them to blame an entire group, with no apparent leader, then to blame the leader of an organization and then start a massive manhunt for 1 man

With a broad accusination (on AQ as a whole) they could just invade any country that supports the organization.. and congress, being the shortsighted monkies they have proven to be time and time again, will willfully vote to some outlandish extremes (war)



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Seekerof, nice post



Originally posted by Seekerof
What is the purpose behind the continued assertions and claims of OBL's death?
What is the purpose behind the continued assertions and claims that OBL is alive, but ever on the run and/or in hiding?
If OBL was indeed factually dead, would any government admit such; would Bush and Blair, as with other Coalition nations, admit such?

The politics of OIL aside, why and whom would benefit from Osama Bin Laden being dead or alive? Bear in mind that the $25+ million dollar reward is for his capture, dead or alive.


Now of course, Seeker, you are kinda asking the impossible, cause I sure haven't seen a dead Osama with a DNA test to offer you any proof. But if I had to guess, I'd say there is a good chance he got buried in a bunker buster attack. And if the bunker was pretty deep and in hard rock, for instance, the body may be irretrievable to those without the proper equipment. Heck he had such tight security, it could be that he and a few close others all got buried in one strike. Might not have been anyone left around to even inform of his death.

But one thing that is curious: If you went looking for evidence that he is still alive, would you find as much evidence (or hearsay as the case may be) as you have presented here supporting the case that he is dead?

It seems to me that if he is dead, and the body was recovered, he is such an icon that he would be embalmed, deified and on display somewhere. And yes, I realize that may not be necessarily true either, because his next in lines may have decided it would be more risky to the movement to confirm his death thinking "dead Osama, dead Jihad" to some extent. So yeah, it's possible they could be sitting on a $25 million rotting corpse.





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