China will have space station before U.S./Europe Etc.

news.bbc.co.uk...

"China hopes to set up a space station within five years and eventually it wants to put an astronaut on the moon. "

Does this not bother anyone, the fact that Bush has said we will go back to the moon by 2012,China are way ahead, i may have that date wrong about Bush.

But my point is China are far way ahead, i heard on this site too, that they spend the most on their military, as well as the millions of disposable people they have.

Are they taking an advantage on us, we can not match their capabilitys in space at the moment.

Even though they are using Soviet technology, which is 30 years old.

Does it not make you wonder what the hell is going on with are space exploration at the moment.

How the mighty have fallen.

I'm a bit confused here, China could'nt have a space station before Europe or the U.S, because there already is one, The ISS (International Space Station), if you mean like thats controlled by one country, well the U.S had skylab back in the 70s.

But there are no space stations run by one country right now.

"But there are no space stations run by one country right now."

My point is US?Europe has not finished it yet.
China propose's that in five years they will have a operational space station.

With america's situation with NASA, fallen tiles etc.

Does this not sound a bit pathetic compared to the stance china has taken.
A dominent force for the future of space exploration.

China has the upper hand.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by Denied]

Well, yes it is pretty sad a situation, the real problem in America and Euroope, is that not enough people care about space exploration.

I mean, if you compare chinese with westerners, chinese thing more of space and treat it with more potential, the chinese people treat there astronauts as national heroes, here, its like, so what you went to space, I have a ferrari.

The US and Europe have no need or plans to make Space stations run soley by either respective power, They already have the ISS.

The only reason China is making their own space station is because they are not being allowed to be members of the ISS. China wanted to join the International Space Station before they had plans to make their own. They really have no choice to build their own if they want to use a space station

China does not have the upper hand in space infact they are playing catch up with US and Russia. They are at the point the US and Russia were at in the early 60s

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
China does not have the upper hand in space infact they are playing catch up with US and Russia. They are at the point the US and Russia were at in the early 60s

Agreed they are playing catch up on Russian and US technology!

BUT...
The Chinese are currently using the Shenzhou rockets, while the Russians use the Soyuz...what manned rocket/capsule combination does the US have? NONE!

While the CEV may solve NASA's problems it will not be here for another 5 years, and in that time the Russsians and China will have launched countless manned rockets...which says to me that the US should be trying their hardest to find those old Saturn V plans or scrapping the CEV and heading back to the Rocket/Capsule idea!


AND...i hope that China does have a serious attempt at a Moon landing!
The thought of losing to the Russians is the only thing that got the US there last time, so maybe if the Chinese begin a new space-race the US will get off her backside and head out into the heavens again! (Quicker)!


Mic





[edit on 17/10/2005 by MickeyDee]

Originally posted by Denied
news.bbc.co.uk...

"China hopes to set up a space station within five years and eventually it wants to put an astronaut on the moon. "


[.......]


Does it not make you wonder what the hell is going on with are space exploration at the moment.

another point to consider....
the USA, is trying its darndest to get private enterprise into the area
of low orbit space.
things like space stations and even hotels are in the design & planning stages....by private enterprises and civilian corporations,

here in western nations the Gov't & and NASA are geared toward space missions like building permanent facilities on the moon
and launching Mars expeditions & colonies from the moon base.

China is way behind, for now, and the station...is only for their national pride
and as a 'learning curve' mission/project.... to get to where the US-EU-Japan are today!
-good for them-

In a way the Chinese have already put a "space station" in space, th orbital module from this mission. The Module is designed to remain in orbit and able to operate autonomously. China could launch an unmanned specialized verion of the Shenzhou craft ala progress with multiple docking modules and attach used orbital modules from regular use. Imagine a station that continues to grow as cheaply and quickly as possible.

I'd say this part of the article is one of the most interesting piece's of infomation:

A Chinese official was quoted by Xinhua as saying that spending on the Shenzhou project had reached $2.3bn, compared to US' annual space budget of $16bn.

China's space program seems so be very cost effective/ effecient.

Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?

Originally posted by Denied
"But there are no space stations run by one country right now."

My point is US?Europe has not finished it yet.
China propose's that in five years they will have a operational space station.

With america's situation with NASA, fallen tiles etc.

Does this not sound a bit pathetic compared to the stance china has taken.
A dominent force for the future of space exploration.

China has the upper hand.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by Denied]

What a joke.

China has the upper hand?

They are planning to go to the moon in the year 2010 - MORE THEN HALF A FRICKING CENTURY AFTER THE US!

They are planning to build a space station in 5 years.

THE US ALREADY HAS ONE!

Even as far as posturing goes, the US is going to fricking Mars.

Yawn. China has become the third nation to place a human in LEO or in this case two. Using technology the was purchased from the Russians and modified somewhat. Its easy to run an efficent program when most of the development costs were footed by the USSR

They are at the Gemini stage as it were again using Soviet Era technology. The mysteries of manned spaceplight ended with Gargarin and the Mercury flights. Many countries have the technical know how to do this but not the money. India, the UK, Japan to name a few.

This takes nothing away from the Chinese acomplishments but its easy to follow a path that others have already treaded than forge one anew

Originally posted by Frosty
Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?

hmm many things that you would never think of

tennis shoes, heat shields for nuclear weapons, temperpedic material, and lets not forget the one thing that we can never ever be without now: Duct tape.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by roniii259]

Originally posted by MickeyDee
The Chinese are currently using the Shenzhou rockets, while the Russians use the Soyuz...what manned rocket/capsule combination does the US have? NONE!

Those are the names for the Space Ships, not the rockets.

The Chinese Rocket is called the Long March, and the Russian Rocket is called the R7.

"China hopes to set up a space station within five years and eventually it wants to put an astronaut on the moon. "

I think every country will eventually put an astronaut on the moon.

Does this not bother anyone, the fact that Bush has said we will go back to the moon by 2012,China are way ahead, i may have that date wrong about Bush.

You do have the date wrong, the date for the new moon mission is 2018.

But my point is China are far way ahead, i heard on this site too, that they spend the most on their military, as well as the millions of disposable people they have.

Why is China far ahead? They put 3 astronauts into space, have never went to the moon, don't have a space station that is partly owned by them, don't have nearly as many satellites, haven't put a handful of probes on Mars, never have put a space-craft out of the official edge of the solar system, on and on. Do you mean they are developing quicker?

The U.S. spends by far more money than any other country including China on its military. The U.S over-spends China by a factor of 4-5 times. The population factor in military combat does favor China, and is the sole reason that the U.S. couldn't win a war (invade China, over-throw government), but I don't think it could lose a war (be invaded) either.

Are they taking an advantage on us, we can not match their capabilitys in space at the moment.

Well, we could if we wanted to, if it was vital. The space shuttle could go up without improvements to safety and be in the same state as the last shuttle mission (STS-114). China has the capability to launch another manned mission in 1 to 2 years after Shenzhou 6 (the current one). The Shuttle mission date is set for May 2006 which is half a year away.

Even though they are using Soviet technology, which is 30 years old.

They might be using a Soyuz spin-off (every vehicle is a spin-off..), but even the Soyuz is still being used by the Russians. The Shuttle is 25 years old, so how old the technology they are using isn't a very good contrast point with the Chinese.

Does it not make you wonder what the hell is going on with are space exploration at the moment.

I think it is going fine. I sure would not say that it definitely could be going better (with current budget) because I probably could not personally make it work better, and thus, cannot imagine a scenario in which space operations would be more effective and efficient (for all I know, at this point in time, this could be the best that could be asked of the human mind).

My point is US?E urope has not finished it yet.
China propose's that in five years they will have a operational space station.

What do you mean by "finished"? They haven't done everything that they envisioned for it, but it is a working space station right now. If nothing else was done to it, it would work fine. I think the idea of being finished for a modular space station makes little sense. For all we know, it will evolve into a 100 million ton station (already 200 tons), with 100,000 people on it (usually about 3-2 right now continually), able to be seen from the moon, and having a huge manufacturing/agricultural industry. Besides, the existing 18 missions planned to "finish" it will be done before 5 years (when China plans to have one).

BUT...
The Chinese are currently using the Shenzhou rockets, while the Russians use the Soyuz...what manned rocket/capsule combination does the US have? NONE!

Does the space shuttle's rocket/reusable habitation module count?

While the CEV may solve NASA's problems it will not be here for another 5 years, and in that time the Russians and China will have launched countless manned rockets...which says to me that the US should be trying their hardest to find those old Saturn V plans or scrapping the CEV and heading back to the Rocket/Capsule idea!

Umm, I hear the CEV will be out between 2008 and 2010 so that is 2 to 5 years. Even if it came out in 5 years, the Chinese have launched Shenzhou missions on average once a year and the manned portion so far have been launched every 2 years. So, you might get 5 manned missions for the Chinese by the time the CEV comes out.

I think people are just being alarmist here. NASA, ESA, Japan, China, and Russia are all doing fine. They are all making quite substantial progress.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by kilendrial]

Originally posted by Frosty
Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?

Well if you don't do any actual research it may seem like that nihilism will get our species no where fast.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Denied
But my point is China are far way ahead, i heard on this site too, that they spend the most on their military, as well as the millions of disposable people they have.

Tis is laughable.

The US spends more money on it's military then the next 25 countries combined which includes China, and nearly more then the rest of the world combined.

Frankly speaking, almost everthing you have said in this thread is false.

We're talking about:

A bunch of Spin Doctors...

A space program that is in the Gemini stage, and skipped most of the Mercury phase, and everything that preceeded it.

A space program that intends to skip a good portion of the research necessary to accomplish the task safely and realistically. Perhaps they do intend to reverse-engineer the accomplishments of other nations.

A launch platform, that is based on an ICBM.

A launch platform, the "Long March", that fails one in every five launches (81.7%), as of 1998.

A space program, that as of 1999, had launched 56 times, compared to 1,152 launches for the United States, and 2,589 for the Soviet Union.

A space program that did not have the technology for an ablative shield on it's early re-entry capsules, so they used a thick piece of hard oak.

A space launch agency, that was caught taking US civilian satellites apart to see how they worked.

A nation, that doesn't have a clue yet, on what happens outside of low Earth orbit. Nor the equipment necessary to do so.

Originally posted by roniii259

Originally posted by Frosty
Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?

hmm many things that you would never think of

tennis shoes, heat shields for nuclear weapons, temperpedic material, and lets not forget the one thing that we can never ever be without now: Duct tape.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by roniii259]

I had no idea they made tennis shoes and heat shields on the ISS or on Skylab. Maybe you like to rephrase what you have placed. All these inventions came from HERE ON EARTH. So I say again, yes to you too Sardion, what has come about on (mabye I should have said in) the ISS or any space station or moon mission?

Originally posted by Frosty
Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?

Theres over 1,400 documented NASA inventions that have benefited U.S. industry, improved the quality of life and created jobs for Americans.

Just one example of inventions thanks to the Apollo program.

-Kidney dialysis machines- were developed as a result of a NASA developed chemical process that could remove toxic waste from used dialysis fluid.

That invention alone saves many peoples lives everyday

The list of items we have thanks to NASA projcts is huge
www.thespaceplace.com...

space.about.com...


BTW roniii259 Duct tape was invented by the military before NASA existed in 1942 its original use was to keep moisture out of the ammunition cases. Nasa Has made use of it though even on the moon it was used to repair a fender on the moon buggy.