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China will have space station before U.S./Europe Etc.

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posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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China is moving way too fast and may very well burn out. If they don't, they will indeed prove to be a leader in future exporation - and exploitation of space. While there technology may be considered to be primitive, it does seem to work. The costs are much less than our efforts - not that this is really a problem for China right now.

A lot of the credit for the success of the program lies in the American-educated Chinese rocket scientist named Tsien Hsue-Chen. A major player in the early American space program, he fell victim to the Red Scare and eventually returned to his homeland. He immediately took the schedule and programs that the US planned on following and worked to influence the Chinese government to follow it. Eventually, he succeeded.

The cliche 'slow and steady wins the race' is still used because it is true in many cases. The US space program was derailed by the ridiculously useless race to the moon. We still haven't recovered from this foolish policy.

If the Chinese economic bubble doesn't burst, there could be trouble. Personally, I am waiting for the Chinese to burn out the way Japan did in the late '80s - some of us will remember the terror that Japan would own the US lock, stock, and barrel...

Check out this link for more info on the Chinese program
www.astronautix.com...




posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Frosty
Ask yourself what did we find on the moon and what discoveries were made on Skylab and MIR and what discoveries have so far been made on the ISS? Off the top of your head...

Does it sound at all that having any of these is worth the cost?


Theres over 1,400 documented NASA inventions that have benefited U.S. industry, improved the quality of life and created jobs for Americans.

Just one example of inventions thanks to the Apollo program.

-Kidney dialysis machines- were developed as a result of a NASA developed chemical process that could remove toxic waste from used dialysis fluid.

That invention alone saves many peoples lives everyday

The list of items we have thanks to NASA projcts is huge
www.thespaceplace.com...

space.about.com...


BTW roniii259 Duct tape was invented by the military before NASA existed in 1942 its original use was to keep moisture out of the ammunition cases. Nasa Has made use of it though even on the moon it was used to repair a fender on the moon buggy.


I hate to post it again, but these inventions did not come on the ISS, they came from here on earth. None of these fine products have come from astronauts onbaord a space station. We were lead to believe that breakthroughs in biology would be happening left and right, but that never came about because JFK and various other politicians never gave a damn about space exploration, it was all politics to them.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty


I hate to post it again, but these inventions did not come on the ISS, they came from here on earth. None of these fine products have come from astronauts onbaord a space station.


But what you are missing is that to put men on the moon or to put a space station in space, you have to solve many technical problems to do so. When NASA solves these problems they create new inventions. Without the moon missions or the space station there would have been no need to make these things. Does it really matter what phase of a NASA project technology is invented?

Heres a list of some of the tech we have thanks to the Space shuttle more then a 100 different ones. Did they invent these thing on the shuttle? Of course not but they were created in making and using the shuttle.

www.sti.nasa.gov...


Heres a list of technologies already created to support construction of the ISS, as well as from work performed on the ISS.
www.sti.nasa.gov...



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Frosty


I hate to post it again, but these inventions did not come on the ISS, they came from here on earth. None of these fine products have come from astronauts onbaord a space station.


But what you are missing is that to put men on the moon or to put a space station in space, you have to solve many technical problems to do so. When NASA solves these problems they create new inventions. Without the moon missions or the space station there would have been no need to make these things. Does it really matter what phase of a NASA project technology is invented?

Heres a list of some of the tech we have thanks to the Space shuttle more then a 100 different ones. Did they invent these thing on the shuttle? Of course not but they were created in making and using the shuttle.

www.sti.nasa.gov...


Heres a list of technologies already created to support construction of the ISS, as well as from work performed on the ISS.
www.sti.nasa.gov...


But that is not what I am asking. I am asking what has come about in biology, engineering, chemistry, etc onbaord a spacestation. These are all materials and ideas that can be developed here on earth, I am looking for something new and radical that can only be feasible on a spacestation.

What is the point of having a spacestation if nothing is being produced? These spinoffs were capable of development regardless of NASA because many had existed in earlier forms...here on earth. Again, I am looking for some invention, some gadget or medicine that has been developed onboard a spacestation.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Well one thing we learn on the space station is just what happens to the human body when it spends long times in space. Better to learn this stuff here near Earth, than halfway to Mars.

But I dont understand your arguement a technology does not count if it wasnt developed on the space station itself? If we develop new tech to create and put a station up and keep it working thats not good enough?



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Well one thing we learn on the space station is just what happens to the human body when it spends long times in space. Better to learn this stuff here near Earth, than halfway to Mars.

But I dont understand your arguement a technology does not count if it wasnt developed on the space station itself? If we develop new tech to create and put a station up and keep it working thats not good enough?


The point isn't what is created to achieve going into space. It is why continue to go when nothing is achieved within the confines of space? The point of the space stations and manned missions was to carry out science in space for a possible benefit for manking, this never occured. They never should have gone to the moon in the first place so soon if at all (like wise we don't need to go to Mars as of anytime soon) and the manned missions should have stopped after Gemini if they were not going to lead to any science labs.

It took until the late 70's for NASA to create a spacestation out of Gemini parts. Ands then they discover the human body's functions in space? What good does that do the other billions of people here on earth?



[edit on 17-10-2005 by Frosty]



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by shantyman
If the Chinese economic bubble doesn't burst, there could be trouble. Personally, I am waiting for the Chinese to burn out the way Japan did in the late '80s - some of us will remember the terror that Japan would own the US lock, stock, and barrel...


That is a great analogy there, I like to use it my self. China is on the upswing, but they are not without their problems.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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A launch platform, that is based on an ICBM.


This is a complaint?

If it were not for the Russian R7 rocket we would not be going to the space station because it would have crashed back to earth long ago.

It was the first ICBM, launched the first satellite, and put the first men into space.

Today it is still being used to send Astronauts into space, cargo to ISS, and launch satellites.

Not to bad for the worlds oldest ICBM.....



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Frosty


The point isn't what is created to achieve going into space. It is why continue to go when nothing is achieved within the confines of space? The point of the space stations and manned missions was to carry out science in space for a possible benefit for manking, this never occured.


[edit on 17-10-2005 by Frosty]


There has been some 1,400 documented NASA inventions since 1976 that have benefited mankind. We wouldnt have these inventions if we didnt have NASA projects they were orignally created for. Is that really hard to understand? The more we go into space the more technology we invent to do the job.

Its quite clear from reading your posts in space threads you are anti-space travel for whatever reason but it makes little diference since man is going to keep exploring space if every single agrees with it or not.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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do you guys know that the average age of the ppl in the control centre of shenzhou is 30? that is amzing! china is far behind US. but you cannot deny china is making substantial progress. by the way, it is abnormal that there are huge difference b/w every two launches. that means china is very good at theory and simulation. they spent 0.1bn in the shenzhou program up to date, while NASA spend 18bn annualy.
about NASA, i am sure that space shuttle will not be launched any more. the concept might be totally wrong. the reliability of the whole system is damned low. what NASA should do is to dig out the apollo spcaeship from the dustbin.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by skylight]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 04:57 AM
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I know i had a few facts and figures wrong, but my point is the speed the chinese are going, it puts us to shame.
Maybe just because china in the spot light it seems that way.
It will be interesting to follow.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Denied
I know i had a few facts and figures wrong, but my point is the speed the chinese are going, it puts us to shame.
Maybe just because china in the spot light it seems that way.
It will be interesting to follow.


yes, ur figures r bit wrong, because what ive read in Chinese news agent is the moon plan will be in 2018. and Indian moon plan is in 2015, even they have no action yet.
but, i dont think Chinese space program put US to shame. we clearly realize US r far ahead away. its just our dream from 2000 years ago, and we want to pursue it. thats all. there is no competition. and godspeed any brave country.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Frosty
The point of the space stations and manned missions was to carry out science in space for a possible benefit for manking, this never occured.
[edit on 17-10-2005 by Frosty]


What can I say. I've laid out my case for why I support manned exploration of the solar system and this is the best argument you can come up with to counter it? The ONLY reason why the ISS is not functioning as designed is due to politics and unreliable partners and the Shuttle blowing up on re-entry and Cut backs. Many many Cutbacks that do not seem to stop coming. Okay maybe it was a whole bunch of really unfortunate events and circumstances but it still doesn't change my mind about it all.

If the political will were there we could achieve some stunning breakthroughs but I guess we'll never know with the current people at the helm.

My Plan would be pull completely out of Iraq and any dollars that was currently going to that debacle should be funneled into NASA. That would be a tripling of the budget I believe, imagine just how many jobs, technologies and industries that can be created with that amount of cash. (Not to mention the hundreds of "Dual Use" technologies that would come out of it) Sending people to explore is a whole lot more noble then sending kids to die IMO. If only the USA would get her prioities straightend out and we'll all be better off for it in the long run(which is all I really care about)

Sorry for the rant and I'll get back on topic now.

For China. Still a couple of decades behind the USA but getting better all the time. Keep that inertia going!!!

[edit on 18-10-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Since I'm living in CHina, I know how excited the people are yet I dont think the technology has surpassed America yet, America's technology is way more advanced, but i guess they have competition now, interesting competition



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 07:59 AM
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Maybe I ask this one more time since I think I was typing in Swahili the previous 3 times (refering to those two who attempt to answer my question)...What discoveries have been made on spacestations, have they lead to either mechanical devices or some sort of medicine?

Is the study of bodily functions in space all that has come about from being in space?

I really don't think it is too hard to understand what the question is here.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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In front? hardly.

Russians have had a space station up there for ages, way before anyone else.

And the Americans put the first man on the moon almost 50 years ago.

So how the heck can anyone say the China is far ahead?

They are just overly ambitious, and do not see any problems with their plans. Problems with USA and Russia know they will encounter due to their huge amounts of experience with this type of thing.

BTW. ISS has a russian part and a us part as far as I know, it isn't controlled by the US as at least 1 person has said.

And yes, the space station is up there and operational. It's just not complete, but it very much so exists.

What could be said is, China is catching up quickly.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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Frosty - If the big answer your looking for is some sort of gadget...well, I dont know of any. But I think a big think is just the knowledge, everything learned from being up there, on how to live and work in space.

People come up with a misc idea on earth, and if there idea needs no gravity to work, then it could go up on the Space shuttle, or to the ISS, and find out what happens. In fact, Columbia was a Science mission only, and did not dock with the ISS or deliver a payload.

and for the original thread topic.....Its been said and said to death...and if the threads author doesn't want to believe it...then so be it.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by shantyman
If the Chinese economic bubble doesn't burst, there could be trouble. Personally, I am waiting for the Chinese to burn out the way Japan did in the late '80s - some of us will remember the terror that Japan would own the US lock, stock, and barrel...


That is a great analogy there, I like to use it my self. China is on the upswing, but they are not without their problems.


American MadMan - please feel free to use this analogy - I think that one of the problems with the China scare is that they really aren't ensuring any kind of stability. They may have a lock on billions of US dollars, but if they try to disrupt our economy, they will certainly destroy their own. They have this great trade ratio because they artifically control the value of their currency - google the current visit by the US trade delegation for more info on this.

Add to this a BILLION Chinese - many of them poor, many of them vunerable to a variety of disasters - imagine trying to contain the Bird Flu if it mutates. The space program is typical of the Chinese mindset - a people with thousands of years of history think long-term by nature. But one massive catastrophe, civil war, economic meltdown, or - like Japan - overextension of credit and artificially high currency valuation, and China is done.

Sorry I strayed a little off topic - or maybe a lot off topic. But if we are going to afraid of the CHinese tiger, we should question if it's a paper one. I think it really is.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
Maybe I ask this one more time since I think I was typing in Swahili the previous 3 times (refering to those two who attempt to answer my question)...What discoveries have been made on spacestations, have they lead to either mechanical devices or some sort of medicine?



Since you are not satisfied with technology tested on and used in the process of creating a spacestaion and its maintenance of which there are many.

Well some discovery made on space stations The physical effects of long term microgravity on the human body. The effects of long term space radiation exposure on the human body. Hundereds of biomedical experiments to investigate the impact of zero gravity and other space factors on humans and animals.

Im sure you will say soooo whats the big deal with that. Well first off its one of the biggest problems we face in manned space travel so we have to understand it and figure out ways around. A thorough understanding of such effects helps us make possible methods of counteracting them.

You might wonder what good is that to people on earth. Well thanks to the data discovered on space stations. NASA is working on all new types of medical technology. One example is medications to counter the loss of bone. Im not going to get into applications that could be used in on earth.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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to shantyman
what makes you think that china economics is going to burst? from newspaper or so called "expert"? hahah...... those ppl never ever been to china. china is a country totally different from america. they've been talking "bubble burst" for yrs. but sooorry, nothing happens so far. so shamed of those "experts".
it is good to have a look, do some investigation. after that, you can make a better conclusion. dunt just listen to the radio, watch TV and copy whatever others said.....




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