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Fierce battle in southern Russia

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posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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50 Islamist combatants and 12 civilians have died in Russian state of Kabardi-Balkarian in the city of Naltshikin.

Several police stations and administrative buildings were attacked by 150 armed "Rebels", Army responded rapidly and surounded the city. Operation is underway to destroy the remaining attackers.

Tshetshenian Rebels have reported themselves quilty for the attack...

Kabardi-Balkaria is a neighbouring state to North Ossetia where attack of tshetsen rebels to a school killed 331 people in the city of Beslan..




posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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Here is the Reuters Article:



MOSCOW (Reuters) - A small army of pro-Chechen fighters launched a massive attack on police and army buildings in a town in Russia's turbulent Caucasus on Thursday, in which dozens were reported killed including 50 of the attackers.

Regional officials quoted by Russian news agencies said that after a morning of mayhem in Nalchik, main city of the Muslim Kabardino-Balkaria region near rebel Chechnya, at least 12 local residents had been killed and 64 others wounded.

Itar-Tass news agency said Russian forces had killed 50 of the 150 gunmen involved in the coordinated attack. Moscow radio said 20 members of the security forces had also been killed.




And the news from Kavkaz Center



Battles have erupted today in the morning on Thursday in capital of Kabardino-Balkariya. Occupational sources report that nearby 09:30 on local time on all power structures -- the Ministry of Internal Affairs of republic, FSB, army, police stations, and also on the airport, and hunting shop "Arsenal" and on a training work-farm were subjected by simultaneous attacks of Mujahideen. Explosions and firefights are hearable in the city.

The building of police station №2 in Nalchik is burning where there the center on struggle with so-called “extremism and criminal terrorism” is located.

Agency Regnum, referring to teachers of school of №5 in Nalchik, has said a clash took place in the building. Children had been evacuated, many have run up. Later on, a girl has run out from the building and said that the educational institution is seized by militants, and her brother still in the school. But the source in power structures has reported RIA Novosti that "hearings about capture of school are not contrary to fact". The school had been evacuated.

In a southwest part of Nalchik the teacher do not let out children from schools -- in streets the armed people open fire on defeat.

Battles have erupted in Nalchik with an attack on the airport. "The airport was protected with one of a company of military from Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation which have repelled attempt ", - the source in occupational structures reported.




[edit on 13/10/05 by Souljah]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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They attacked the FSB building as well (FSB=KGB)...


RIA Novosti: 300 militants attack North Caucasus city, FSB suffers casualties

According to preliminary information, about 300 suspected militants attacked the North Caucasus city of Nalchik, a local Federal Security Service (FSB) officer told RIA Novosti by telephone Thursday.

Gunmen attacked buildings of the local law-enforcement bodies, including the FSB.

"Law enforcement officers are trying to kill the militants entrenched near the [FSB] building," the officer said amidst gunshots in the background.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


URGENT: Armored vehicles, special forces fight militants in Nalchik - ministry (RIA Novosti)

Armored vehicles and special forces are involved in efforts to repel an attack launched by militants Thursday morning on the North Caucasus city of Nalchik, a representative of the Interior Ministry said.

He also said police were ready to prevent any attempts made by the militants either to break out of the city or to stop any additional forces reaching them.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


URGENT: At least 50 militants killed in Nalchik - deputy interior minister (RIA Novosti)



At least 50 militants have been killed in the North Caucasus city of Nalchik, Deputy Interior Minister of Russia Alexander Chekalin said at a meeting with President Vladimir Putin.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


RIA Novosti: Mobile phone operator station blown up in Nalchik



A base station belonging to mobile phone operator MegaFon has been blown up in the North Caucasus city of Nalchik, the company said Thursday. Militants launched an attack on the Nalchik, the capital of the republic of Kabardino-Balkariya, on Thursday morning.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


URGENT: Battle being waged in various districts of Nalchik - ministry (RIA Novosti)

A battle is being waged in various districts of the North Caucasus city of Nalchik, a source in the local department of the Emergency Situations Ministry said Thursday.

"There are gangs all over the city, and battles are going on," the source said. "The militants are concentrated in different places."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Other links:
UPDATE: Putin orders total blockade of Nalchik (RIA Novosti)

[edit on 2005/10/13 by Hellmutt]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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I was just watching the bbc and noticed those islamic fighters were called 'rebels', not terrorists, even though one of them went up to a car and shot the civilian at point blank range in the head.

They are saying they could be the fighter's that live and fight in Chechnya, the russian government told islam follower's they couldn't pray inside the mosques because they wanted to keep the mosques empty in case those 'rebels' decided to take over them w/ civilians inside.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
I was just watching the bbc and noticed those islamic fighters were called 'rebels', not terrorists, even though one of them went up to a car and shot the civilian at point blank range in the head.

Good point
Islamic extremist from Chechnya have always been called rebels for some reason...which they are, but they are terrorist at the same time. Yet they are never refered to as terrorist........beats me


My guess is that the media does not play them out to be terrorist since they are not terrorizing france, US, Germany, etc..etc... And they are rebeling against Russia...so they probably started off as rebels (minus terrorrising) and the name just stuck...



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Technically speaking the Chechnya "Rebels" have been fighting for their independence from Russia. They want their own country and government and nothing more. At least that is what I have always thought back in the mid to late 90’s. But now that they are killing innocent civilians they are terrorists and no longer rebels. Rebels only kill and fight their enemies, or what they believe to be their enemies. It is very sad what they are doing now and some of the things they have done in the past. But you can not only blame them, the Russian Government is also to blame.

But that is still no reason to kill innocents.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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A source in FSB said that Basayev was killed by Russian forces in Nalchik.


MosNews: Russia’s Most-Wanted Terrorist Basayev Killed

Russia’s most-wanted Chechen terrorist Shamil Basayev was killed by Russian forces in Thursday’s firefight in the Kabardino-Balkarian capital Nalchik, a source in the local branch of the FSB (the Federal Security Service) told the Chechen Society newspaper. Officials are remaining silent until a full identification procedure has been completed.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Armored vehicles and special forces are involved in efforts to repel an attack

Seems they brought Spetnaz in
During the Dubrovka theatre siege they put a bullet in the head of each of the terrorist that had been knocked out from the gas they used. Highly trained and not people you want to mess with.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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No you do not want to mess with Spetnaz, they do a great job like any other Spec Ops group.

Plus they are used most of the time so they get the majority of combat experience.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Sorry for a double post, but I came across this article that I found very interesting. Now I will leave it up to you people to think about.

Russia versus Chechens- History of Suppression

Russia has a rich history of suppressing and brutalizing the Chechens.

"The Chechens have every reason not to trust Moscow," the CNN once quoted Andrei Kortunov, a political analyst as saying. "They fought against Russia during the 19th century and they were deported (to Soviet Central Asia in 1944) by Joseph Stalin" after Chechnya sided with the Germans in World War II.

"It was not just a group of criminals (who were deported) but the whole nation."

Interesting

Now if you ask me this is a good reason why they are called “Rebels” and not Terrorists. They are just changing their tactics unfortunately.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 01:47 AM
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The special forces refered in the news article could also be OMON (SpecOps of the Ministry of interior), or FSB Combat operatives, since a FSB building was attacked...
Other Units in the battle included a comppany of SVKO Tactical Group that landed at Nalchick airport and they're still conducting operations with MVD
( according to Russian military sources www.mil.ru )



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by BlackBeard

Now if you ask me this is a good reason why they are called “Rebels” and not Terrorists. They are just changing their tactics unfortunately.



Their original cause I can understand, today they bombed government buildings, which is what they should focus on since their beef is w/ the government. That's rebellion.
When you start shooting innocent people just because they live in russia, thats terrorism in it's purest form.

I cannot call them rebels by name as their cause seems to be taking them in more unethical direction. I'm all for people wanting to change their government if it's not working for the people, but for god sake's keep your beef w/ them and not civilians who cant help being russian.

Now, are these the same people who took those school children hostage 6 months ago?

They were islamic too.. i can't call them rebels either, but rather pieces of #2.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:04 AM
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In regards to the 'label' to give these people...

Channel 7 news in Australia (which is our 'descriptive key words are gospel' news station) has today called the people involved as "Terrorists" and in the evening news they upgraded their keyword to "Islamic Insurgents".

They seem to have forgotten the whole Russia/Chechnya deal and would rather stick to WoT phrazes.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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One Mans terrorist is another ones Freedom Fighter...
Rebel/Terrorist difference is only cultural between Russia and the West
During soviet days anyone doing sloppy work etc. could be labeled terrorist/saboteur and sent to camps... lots of those people were innocent.. so russian media likes to call Islamists Rebels instead...

And no matter what acts these scumbags do they still are first Rebels to Russia and only secondly terrorists... they have a just cause but ill means..



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

Their original cause I can understand, today they bombed government buildings, which is what they should focus on since their beef is w/ the government. That's rebellion.
When you start shooting innocent people just because they live in russia, thats terrorism in it's purest form.


I agree with you 100%, they are now or a faction of the old Rebel group may have broken off and has become a Terrorist group, targeting innocent people that have nothing to do with the government. So yes, if this is the case then they should now be deemed Terrorists.


Originally posted by TrueLies
I cannot call them rebels by name as their cause seems to be taking them in more unethical direction. I'm all for people wanting to change their government if it's not working for the people, but for god sake's keep your beef w/ them and not civilians who cant help being russian.


Again, I agree with you and feel the same way, which is why the US has the 2nd Amendment and right to have Militia’s.


Originally posted by TrueLies
Now, are these the same people who took those school children hostage 6 months ago?

They were islamic too.. i can't call them rebels either, but rather pieces of #2.


That is another question like I asked above in this same post. Are these the same as the ones that took over that school? Being Islamic should have nothing to do with it; it is when they are Islamic Extremists that should be looked at.

For all we know they could be a broken detachment from the Rebels that want independence. Until more information is released all we can go with is speculation and I know for a fact that the Russian Government will not release the truth.

I do think that one of the members around here will dig something up that will be very credible.

Also look at the amount of “rebels” that took part in this operation, it was like 100 last I heard. The Chechnya Rebels are a lot stronger and bigger than that. But please do not look at the fact that they are Muslim because most of Chechnya is Muslim.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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Last i heard the same group responsible for Beslan School attack has claimed this one too..
and for the Hospital atatck few years ago...

Chetsenyan (insert word you like, i'd use the Rebels since it's official) aren't an unified group but rather loose affiliation of warlords under even looser command of Bashajev (claimed to be killed in this latest attack)
... and attacking civilian/administrative/police/FSB targets has long been their favorite way of fighting, most warlords keep their ops inside the rebellious state, but some like Bashajev trends to attack neighbouring states, in order to gain support/allies within their muslim extremists.

But purely on tactical point of view this was a quite a feat from Rebels, inflitrating 150 men deep into enemy territory unnoticed and launching an attack isn't something easy (not even to proper specops)



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 04:16 AM
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It is by far NON-SpecOps for them to do something like this on a large scale with only a hundred and fifty men. That takes guts IMO, a lot of guts. I did not know that they were not a unified group; I was lead to believe years ago that they were unified like their own small army or something.

Are they the same ones that attacked the Opera a few years ago?



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 06:32 AM
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They were united around the batlle of Grosnyj, but leadership atm is very loose if existent due to russian military ops in area...
The opera attack was made by a "splinter cell" of the Basajev group (correct if i'm wrong) and the same cell was accused of building bombings in Moscow before the theater attack


ExD

posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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First of all, this people are terrorists, term "rebel" is usually used by western media when they refer to someone who didn't attack them, but others. Oh, yes, it's justified, if they don't kill us, then they are rebels.

Nalchik is located near Chechnya and near border with Georgia, that totally open to terrorists with that idiot Saakashvilli, that don't cares about it.

There is no "Chechen rebels", there are bunch of gangs that survived after second chechen campaign, they are financed by different islamic radicals. Chechnya have got her constitution and it is part of Russian Federation. Thats a result of referendum. The main problem is that after war, republic and it's economy was totally destroyed, huge money goes for rebuilding, but there is still high rate of unemployed, that can be easily recruited by terrorists.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by ExD
There is no "Chechen rebels", there are bunch of gangs that survived after second chechen campaign, they are financed by different islamic radicals. Chechnya have got her constitution and it is part of Russian Federation. Thats a result of referendum. The main problem is that after war, republic and it's economy was totally destroyed, huge money goes for rebuilding, but there is still high rate of unemployed, that can be easily recruited by terrorists.


I find that very interesting as I have little knowledge on this subject. Perhaps you can point me in a direction where I can look this stuff up to do some light reading? You have an interesting pov.




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