WAR: Satan is Your God, not Allah: The Disturbing Story of a Guantanamo Chaplain

Thats right blame Clinton...prisoner abuse, blame Clinton... 9/11, blame Clinton... the recession, blame Clinton... a bad case of gas, blame Clinton...my viagra doesn't work anymore, must be Clinton's fault.

Give me a break. Those in command positions were holdovers from clinton? Do you have any idea how slowly the military changes? Try holdovers from the first Bush and Reagan if not before. Try finding new excuses besides Clinton for one will ya.

Originally posted by Jakomo
And as for having pornography on a gov computer, ROFL! Is that a joke? Having porn on his PC makes him a terrorist?

No. It makes him guilty of breaking the laws under UCMJ ... laws
that he is fully aware of and that he agreed to abide by when he
took the officers oath for the US Military. Laws that he can be
court marshalled for breaking. But that he got off BECAUSE he's
muslim whereas others get nailed for. He was 100% guilty and
admitted to the adultry and porn. Why the government let him
off without charging him is for them to explain. All others get nailed,
but what were they afraid of ... having him whine that he got
nailed because he was muslim. Heck .. he's whining anyways.

Muslims looking at porn are evil, but Christians
looking at it are what? Enlightened?

No. Muslims and Christians and anyone else in the military who
have porn downloaded on their government computers are
guilty of misuse of government equipment. It's in the rules
that ALL military people agree to abide by when they volunteer
and swear in.

Well, hate to break it to you, but you can cheat on your
wife and still be a good family man.

No you can't. That makes him an adulterer and a liar. It makes him
unbelievable when he swears to abide by laws and then breaks
them in multimple ways. That makes him a bad 'family' man in any'
sense of the word and courtmarshallable under UCMJ. THAT's
what it makes him. But if you think adulterers are 'good family'
and trustworthy ... well, keep thinking that ... whatever makes
it so you can sleep at night.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by yadboy
It wouldn't suprise me that the female officers did things to make the detainees uncomfortable, but I just don't see them getting naked and masturbating in front of them, it just doesn't sound plausible.

Considering the fact that he committed adultry and that he had porn
on his computer when he could be courtmarshalled for having it .. it's
entirely possible that he has some kind of sex addiction and that the
entire 'forced to touch breasts' thing was some kind of S&M fantasy.

I haven't seen where he confessed/admitted to the porn and adultery charges, can you provide a reference?

Originally posted by Jaryn
I haven't seen where he confessed/admitted to the porn and adultery charges, can you provide a reference?

In TV News after his appeal he admitted to the adultry.
He hasn't officially discussed the porn being on his computer
(that I know of) but it was there.

www.cnn.com...

Excerpt - CNN April 14, 2004

A female Navy officer at Guantanamo Bay testified at the outset of
the military proceedings last December at Fort Benning, Georgia, that she
had had an affair with Yee, who is married and has a young daughter.

Those proceedings were halted after only one day of testimony, which
included an account by a U.S. Customs official who said he found lists of
interrogators and detainees in Yee's possession when the Muslim chaplain
returned to Florida for home leave last fall

msnbc.msn.com...

AP March 23, 2004

The commanding officer at the Guantanamo Bay base, Maj. Gen.
Geoffrey Miller, found Yee guilty of two violations of military law — adultery
and improperly downloading pornography onto an Army computer. In an
Article 15 proceeding, a finding of guilt does not result in a criminal
conviction.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

FlyersFan: Funny thing.

Nowhere in that link does it say Yee admitted to adultery.

It says he was found guilty of it, not that he confessed.

You know the difference, right?

So your

But that he got off BECAUSE he's
muslim whereas others get nailed for. He was 100% guilty and
admitted to the adultry and porn.

as a basis for your entire argument is actually untrue. So it kind of brings your whole argument crashing down.

Do Christian Army officers traditionally get arrested for cheating on their wives and looking at porn?

No you can't. That makes him an adulterer and a liar. It makes him
unbelievable when he swears to abide by laws and then breaks
them in multimple ways.

Um, I beg to differ. A man who cheats on his wife IS an adulterer. He IS a liar. But that does NOT mean that he is a bad father, or necessarily a bad husband. Same thing for a woman.

People make mistakes and people change and people grow and learn. If you get drunk one night and bang a stewardess this doesn't make you unfit to raise your child.

But if you think adulterers are 'good family'
and trustworthy ... well, keep thinking that ... whatever makes
it so you can sleep at night.

No, but I know that world is not black and white, and that people ALWAYS have reasons for doing what they do, usually not readily apparent to your average onlooker. Even the most trustworthy person in the world will stab you in the back if the circumstances are wrong.

I sleep gloriously well at night, thanks for your concern.

Originally posted by Jakomo
It says he was found guilty of it, not that he confessed.

I said the TV news ... read what I wrote

You know the difference, right?

SNOTTY.

So it kind of brings your whole argument crashing down.

Nope. You wish ... but nope.

Do Christian Army officers traditionally get arrested for
cheating on their wives and looking at porn?

ALL officers and ALL enlisted are subject to UCMJ which specifically
states that adultry is a against the rules. Remember
the case not too long ago that actually made the news? The female
officer pilot had an affair with another military member. She got
booted and he didn't?? Big uproar because he got off but she
got nailed. I can't remember the names, or I would give a link.

Yes, it happens. It rarely makes the news. I was in the Army
for 5 years ... a chaplain assistant. I saw more than a few
cases.

Arrested for looking at porn? No. Putting it on military computers? Yep.
These are the rules. Everyone knows them. Everyone follows
them equally or they get busted.

He IS a liar. But that does NOT mean that he is a
bad father, or necessarily a bad husband.

I disagree. But like I said .. keep telling yourself that if it
helps you sleep at night. Whatever.



[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

Thanks for the response. If anyone can find documentation that shows he admitted to either adultery or downloading porn, please provide it.

The reason I am so interested in this part is as has been alluded to, it would reflect heavily on his character and therefore the reliability of his revelations. Having spent 20 years in the military, I have also seen many cases of adultery and of using govt computers for accessing porn. Only some of these were prosecuted, most were handled through Article 15 proceeding and I was personally aware of several that were completely false. If Yee admitted to these charges that means a lot more to me than being charged with or even being found guilty of them.

Some military chat discussions on adultry and UCMJ, etc...


Not enough being done to crack down on adultry - www.forums.military.com...

Free Legal Advice ...... Oklahoma I was wondering what is the statue of
limitations for punishing things under ucmj, I am being accused of adultry
that happened almost over a year ago. ...
www.forum.freeadvice.com...

An Open Discussion of the Uniform Code of Military Justice ... punished for
certain types of relationships (adultry, homosexual, senior-subordinate...etc. ...
www.prisontalk.com...

A quick history of the UCMJ and some general info on it can be found at: ...
www.lists.freebsd.org...


F-16.net :: View topic - Grounding Pilots adultry being defined as sex
outside of a marriage. Two single people having sex, under that definition
would be adultry. ...
www.f-16.net...

Re: adultery... The UCMJ does make adultry a criminal offense,
www.memoriam.anglicansonline.org...


Personal note - I don't think that adultry should be a courtmarshal offense.
Article 15 either. (for all you non-military folks - that generally means
reduction in rank and pay) I don't know why the military has adultery
a UCMJ offense ... perhaps it's because of the black mail factor??? dunno.


[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

No. It makes him guilty of breaking the laws under UCMJ ... laws
that he is fully aware of and that he agreed to abide by when he
took the officers oath for the US Military. Laws that he can be
court marshalled for breaking. But that he got off BECAUSE he's
muslim whereas others get nailed for. He was 100% guilty and
admitted to the adultry and porn. Why the government let him
off without charging him is for them to explain. All others get nailed,
but what were they afraid of ... having him whine that he got
nailed because he was muslim. Heck .. he's whining anyways.

Your pro-torture spin is outright slander.

washingtonpost.com
All the national security charges were eventually dropped, and Yee was given a written reprimand for the adultery and pornography charges, which was later withdrawn.

nj.com
He was charged with mishandling classified documents, charges which were later dropped in an embarrassing episode for the Pentagon. A written reprimand issued to Yee for viewing pornography on his laptop and committing adultery also were erased from his record following his legal appeal.

USMJ doesn't run under Napoleonic or Sharia law,
so what part of innocent till proven guilty do you not comprehend?




[edit on 12-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

Regenmacher, not to disagree with your post, but you should realize that under the UCMJ, you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are charged with a crime, it is up to you to prove your innocence. Normally what happens is you are 'offered' an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), if you accept it, you are punished for the crime. If you do not, the issue is dropped or (in almost all cases), you are then court-martialed. Due to the fact that nobody in their right mind wants to be court-martialed, nearly all people accept the Article 15, guilty or not.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Your pro-torture spin is outright slander.

You are ignorant of the fact that all people who sign up
in the military freely agree to abide by the UCMJ. Calling
this fact 'pro-torture spin' is slander on YOUR part.

Expecting him to follow the law that he agreed to, and
that everyone else has to follow, is not pro-torture.

so what part of innocent till proven guilty do you not comprehend?

So what part of the fact that the general found him guilty and
slapped him an article 15 do YOU not comprehend? It doesn't
matter that it was latter withdrawn for the sake of a PR campaign.
He is guilty of breaking the rules. He should be punished like
everyone else. He eventually got off because of PR .. not because
of justice.







[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Jaryn
Regenmacher, not to disagree with your post, but you should realize that under the UCMJ, you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are charged with a crime, it is up to you to prove your innocence. Normally what happens is you are 'offered' an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), if you accept it, you are punished for the crime. If you do not, the issue is dropped or (in almost all cases), you are then court-martialed. Due to the fact that nobody in their right mind wants to be court-martialed, nearly all people accept the Article 15, guilty or not.

Edit: take out stupid wise crack on my part, sorry Jaryn

Horse puckey and no I don't realize, cause no innocent person has to accept an Art. 15. For that matter, anyone in the USA can be arrested and thrown in jail awaiting a trail for a false charge, that doesn't mean they are guilty. He can file an appeal also and since they never fully proceeded with any Art. 15's, it's irrelevant to even argue about it. Lots of smoke blowing and skewed facts to make the whistleblower look bad and side on the the use of torture.

815. ART. 15. COMMANDING OFFICER'S NON-JUDICIAL PUNISHMENT

(e) A person punished under this article who considers his punishment unjust or disproportionate to the offense may, through proper channels, appeal to the next superior authority. The appeal shall be promptly forwarded and decided, but the person punished may in the meantime be required to undergo the punishment adjudged. The superior authority may exercise the same powers with respect to punishment imposed as may be exercised under subsection (d) by the officer who imposed the punishment. Before acting on appeal from a punishment of--
UCMJ

Presumption Of Innocence

Under our legal system, everyone is presumed innocent until a court finds them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. A court may make a fair and just decision only after it has heard all the evidence relating to the guilt or innocence of an accused.

www.adtdl.army.mil...

______________________

All charges have now been dropped and Yee's record is clean.

The Article 15 proceeding was overturned by Gen. James T. Hill, commander of Southcom, who said Yee had been punished enough.
washingtontimes.com...


[edit on 12-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Jakomo

Haha. Well, hate to break it to you, but you can cheat on your wife and still be a good family man. There are a whole bunch of reasons people stray from the bonds of matrimony.

Jakomo - While I concur with your desire to see links concerning this man's misdeeds, I cannot concur with your assertion that a voluntary adulterer can still be a good family man. Solemn vows are given during marriage and they should be adhered to.

I'm not really sure what that response was supposed to mean Regenmacher, but I didn't dig anything up off the 'net. I posted from 20 years of personal military experience.

Also, if you read what I posted, you will be able to understand why I say you are guilty until proven innocent. First you are tried and convicted by your commander, then if you are willing to be court-martialed, you can fight to prove your innocence.

Anyway, we have hijacked this thread too much already and I won't continue debating this tangent here.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You are ignorant of the fact that all people who sign up
in the military freely agree to abide by the UCMJ. Calling
this fact ' is slander on YOUR part.

Expecting him to follow the law that he agreed to, and
that everyone else has to follow, is not pro-torture.

There's two sides in this issue: those that believe GITMO should continue torture operations and those they believe they should follow the Geneva Convention. Based on your track record you are "pro-torture".

Your pro-torture spin reflects your actions as you continually bash, name-call, flame bait members and choose to slander/discredit Yee with your erroneous claims.

At least 37 prisoners died during US interrogations in Iraq, you responded as follows:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
People actually died? Well, at least that's something
more substantial than calling dirty pictures taken by
a dozen or so National Guardsmen 'torture'.

I don't care. I don't care and I'm sure I'll get flamed for
that but tough. I don't care. I don't care and I'm sure I'll get flamed for
that but tough. The terrorists are trying to kill us and
destroy America. If they die then it's one less terrorist in
the world. War is brutal. They shouldn't have started it
and they shouldn't have joined the terrorists if they
couldn't handle the heat.atsnn

Your logic is they do it, so we can too....which is an anarchist mentality and destroys laws that took centuries to procure. Your state of mind belongs back in the medieval days of feudalism or 14th century Islam.

slander
oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another, which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a lawsuit.

libel
to publish in print, writing or broadcast through radio, internet, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others.

slander/libel

Originally posted by FlyersFan
-He committed adultry and he had a whole lot of porn on his
military computer.

-The man is a liar. He lied to his wife, his family, the
government and he broke many rules and laws.

-He was 100% guilty and admitted to the adultry and porn.

-it's entirely possible that he has some kind of sex addiction and that the
entire 'forced to touch breasts' thing was some kind of S&M fantasy.

*All your doing here is working towards getting sued and this is an open public forum with many eyes.

_________________________

Capt. James Yee

Fabricating false charges aka railroading in an act of revenge cause Yee blew the lid off "GITMO Miller's House of Torture" has nothing to do with following UCMJ.

And no they didn't find him guilty, he never freely admitted to being guilty and all proceedings were dropped. Dropped means " not guilty" and your ego-bashing doesn't change that fact.

Timeline

2003

Oct. 10: Military authorities formally charge Yee with less serious offenses of mishandling classified information.

Oct. 11: Col. Jack Farr, an Army Reservist and chief of prisoner interrogations at Guantánamo, is arrested for illegally transporting classified documents.

Nov. 25: Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller orders Yee released from pre-trial confinement; tacks on three new charges of lying to investigators, adultery and downloading pornography on government computer.

Dec. 8: Article 32 hearing begins at Fort Benning, Ga. After two days of testimony, hearing is postponed until Jan. 19 to sort through classified- document issues.

2004

March 19: Maj. Gen. Miller drops charges of mishandling classified information against Yee.

March 22: Miller reprimands Yee for adultery and downloading pornography at a noncriminal hearing at Fort Meade, Md. He is reassigned to Fort Lewis.

April 14: Gen. James Hill, commander of U.S. Southern Command, dismisses the written reprimand, clears Yee's record.

May 8: Major General Geoffrey Miller transferred from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib.

Aug. 27: Jack Farr receives nonjudicial punishment for mishandling classified documents and lying to investigators.

Sept. 22: Ahmed Al Halabi pleads guilty to four lesser offenses of mishandling a classified document, taking unauthorized photographs and lying to investigators. He is sentenced to the 10 months in prison he had already served and given a bad-conduct discharge. He appeals the discharge.

2005

Jan. 7: Yee receives honorable discharge and the Army Commendation Medal

General Miller is has been under investigation for abuses at Guantanamo Bay detention center and Abu Ghraib prison and has contradicted his sworn congressional testimony.

Conclusion: A guilty military officer does not get an honorable discharge, an Army commendation medal and a dismissal of all charges including records scrubbed of article 15's....and there was torture in GITMO.




[edit on 12-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by grover
Thats right blame Clinton...prisoner abuse, blame Clinton... 9/11, blame Clinton... the recession, blame Clinton... a bad case of gas, blame Clinton...my viagra doesn't work anymore, must be Clinton's fault.

Give me a break. Those in command positions were holdovers from clinton? Do you have any idea how slowly the military changes? Try holdovers from the first Bush and Reagan if not before. Try finding new excuses besides Clinton for one will ya.

Thanks for making my point for me. I was just trying to illustrate that "W" can't really be blamed for everything that's going on there now either. I'm sure someone could do background checks on all the folks in command there and tell us who was appointed by whom. But that would just be a finger pointing contest and accomplish nothing.

Just like you can't blame Clinton for everything, you can't blame Dubya either. The wheels in this government turn verrry slowly.

I wasn't a big fan of Clinton, and I'm not a fan of Bush either. I was just trying to rebut the fingerpointing at Bush in a earlier post. Ultimately the blame lies with the commanders who turned a blind eye, not the ones who appointed them.

Ahem, Yadboy... let's not leave out the former WH Counsel (you know the one Harry replaced), now Attorney General Gonzo. He wrote the brief arguing that torture is permissable.

To cover Jr.'s butt, screw the rest of them?

(Questions for another thread: What brief has Harry wrote on this order? None you say... ok, how would she judge?)

[edit on 13-10-2005 by psyopswatcher]