WAR: Satan is Your God, not Allah: The Disturbing Story of a Guantanamo Chaplain

Capt. James Yee, a Springfield resident, was accused by the Army of espionage in September 2003 and held in solitary confinement for 76 days. All charges were eventually dropped, and thusly he has received a honorable discharge and an Army commendation medal. Yee now tells his disturbing story of his time as a Guantanamo Bay Chaplain as follows:



Yee chose the side of a prisoner rights advocate, while the DoD saw the prisoners as enemy combatants devoid of rights. The lesson here is when you don't play the game by the Pentagon's rules, you end up getting burned.

Related News Links:
www.washingtonpost.com
www.aljazeera.com
www.suntimes.com



[edit on 11-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

You should refer to this thread for some tips on how to improve this submission.

This is an excellent article and should receive massive attention IMHO, but with the misspelling and almost complete lack of introduction and personal comments, it will be difficult to get it voted up. I would also give some thought to the title...it would make a lot more sense to me to use a title that tells people that the story contained here is a first-hand account of what this chaplain went through and observed.

For all of us that feel this story should be heard, please refer to the above thread and 'touch up' this submission!

I voted yes, due to the story content... but try to improve the closing statement.
It is a bit rough to make out the angle...
otherwise good.

as to the story... I feel that these methods are far more humane and resonable to the "other" methods used.

Afterall... wouldn't our guys feel very well treated to be shown naked women, and have satanist shouted at them... in fact... that is probably the very thing they shout...
as to the naked women... how can someone say that they were forced to feel a breast? The article seems to state that SHE made them fondle her... she must be pretty big and strong to FORCE a prisoner to grab something they dont want to grab...
and so what? being forced to do something should exonerate them in Allahs eyes, so their soul isn't in danger...
in fact the only thing that was dangerous was a case of Carpel Tunnel syndrome for some of the more agreeable prisoners...

if it leads to info that saves american lives, is it worth embarrasing a few thugs ?

if the roles were reversed, would OBL be a decent, moral captor ?


if we play by the rules, and wear the white hats, we lose.

This isn't like in the 1770's, when enemies faced each other on a field in broad daylight and engaged in combat, with uniforms and honor. These days, our enemy uses downs syndrome suicide bombers and their targets might be a school, hospital or funeral.


its a matter of survival. do you want to be on the side that fights fair, but loses ?

I'd like to be speaking english and saluting the american flag in 10 years, not learning arabic and the quran, than you very much

If we play by their 'rules', we have already lost!

You may be comfortable with this sort of behaviour, but I and many other Americans are not. As a matter of fact, that is one of the cornerstone philosophies of our nation, like it or not.

Just another example how an important role religion has in influencing the way of thinking in the world.

This not new it's has been going on for centuries.

This time is Religion as a tool for terrorism, occurs we already has credited radical muslins with that one.

How about Religion as a tool for interrrogation That is better.

I've voted yes to this subsmission, I was suspicious at first as I didn;t recognise the source, but a quick search on Google revelaed a multitude of links, here are some:

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Interesting comment in the above link:

Military officials said the case was dropped because of "national security concerns" if the evidence was released.

edition.cnn.com...

Scary stuff indeed...

Wow - this is bizarre. This seems to me to be the embodiment (and extension) of the lessons we learned from the Stanford Prison Experiment. There is simply too little supervision of these interrogators - I think we're realizing that the education and experience level has no impact on the level of professionalism and humanity of these people.

For the record, I think your submission is absolutely acceptable. I'm surprised so many "0" and "1" contributors are complaining. Though let's not turn this thread into a contribution discussion. This story is important - the social implications are perhaps scientific.

Zip

By LazarusTheLong
Afterall... wouldn't our guys feel very well treated to be shown naked women, and have satanist shouted at them... in fact... that is probably the very thing they shout...

Well, yes... that's why it would be idiotic to use that as torture on westerners.

The equivalent would be something along the lines of showing a devout Christian naked pictures of their mother whilst insisting Jesus enjoys having intercourse with little boys.

if we play by the rules, and wear the white hats, we lose

The irony in that statement is surely so obvious...

By syrinx high priest

This isn't like in the 1770's

No, it's like the period since the Geneva Convention was created, after century upon century of atrocities, purely to help prevent them from happening again. They weren't created as rules to just opt out of if you felt like it. They were made as a basic moral code of warfare to separate from pure barbarism every nation that aspired to be called 'Civilised'.

The "it's okay cos we mean well" excuse didn't wash before it's implementation, and it hasn't washed since.


[edit on 11-10-2005 by kegs]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
if it leads to info that saves american lives, is it worth embarrasing a few thugs ?

if the roles were reversed, would OBL be a decent, moral captor ?


if we play by the rules, and wear the white hats, we lose.

Actually, I'd rather lose, and be the honorable, good guys. My mother used to tell me, "Don't lower yourself to their level," when there was some bully, or other when I was a child.

And, If lives have to be shed, I'd rather it happened because we took the high road, we were honorable, we proved that we deserved that white hat.

As Robert Hunter of the Grateful Dead once wrote..."It is only ideas that keep us apart"...not profound in an earth shaking way, but profound in that it is something we know in our heart of hearts to be true...all hatreds, all loves, all religions and all politics are only ideas that we construct to define ourselves with, a game we play with flesh and blood...and as in all such games, played with a deep seriousness. Yehweh/Allah/Jehovah/God and all the other nine billion names of God are simply words that we use, words that in and of themselves have no intrinsic value, to define the eneffable....that which is beyond catagory and words. To say that a name of God is that God and true or false is absurd....all religions are equally true and equally false, because they are metaphors for that which cannot be spoken. If God is infinate then it can have nine billion names and be each and every one of them, it can be male or female or genderless, it can be a plurality if it wants to be because as the singularity, ideas cannot contain it. All this is important because it is with these deep constructs, that we define ourselves by, and to disrespect or insult somebody elses God is to insult them in ways that cut to the very core of who they concieve themselves to be, it is to insult their culture, their sense of being and their place in the universe. If these charges are true, and these acts were carried out on all the prisoners...(acts that the Geneva Convention that The now Attn. General deemed quaint,) including the ones since released, we have made for ourselves implacable enemies that no apologies will ever calm. Swift, really swift.

If we play by their 'rules', we have already lost!

I agree, if we lower ourselves to the level these people are willling to sink to, everything that makes our society worth defending goes out the window.

And it's hardly a "fight for survival."
Our survival is by no means in jeapordy.

Fanatical Islamists are a tiny minority in the Islamic world, they have no industrial base, no military power to speak of. All they have is a complete disregard for the value of human life. So far they've been able to pull off one serious attack on this country, and while it was a tragedy and a shock, it didn't come anywhere close to being a "threat to our survival."

The threat they constitute hardly compares to other opponents we've faced: the Warsaw Pact, the Axis in WW2. Al Quaeda is absolutely insignifigant compared to either.

[edit on 10/11/05 by xmotex]

The feds have always been able to scuttle anyone away into solitary for months and months. It's not a pleasant thought, but it isn't anything new. There isn't a fairness police patrol and none of this started with Muslims.

It's bad all over. Ask that guy who got his head bashed in by cops in New Orleans. Getting beaten up was probably against his religion too. Some one is getting beaten up right now.

And depending on where you spend your night in a county lockup, you may very well make your own naked appearance. You don't get a dressing room. All of this before getting to court, which is supposedly where you are found guilty. Which, if you get a fair trial or hearing, won't get you your dignity back or take away the suffering you may have endured.

Once the bastards have you, they've got you at their mercy no matter what country, what war, what state, or what county you find yourself in. God help you.


[edit on 11-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

The crux of it:

original story

I had monitored the atrocious treatment meted out by the guards.

There is no honor in any of this... "simply a piece of political theatre." Sad when it causes suffering though ...

Honorable though to drop the charges, unless it was out of fear of evidence being exposed...? That's political filth, imo. Bury the facts when they're dirty, hardly honorable. Those charges weren't going to stick, so they had to go away, but not before he had a taste to share with the world?


I vote too Thanks for updating us on Yee's case.. The religious hypocrisies make me wonder what century we're living in. This is progress? Whatever, it's a good ct with some deep philosophy to discuss.

The Stanford Prison Experiment HAD taught us this, Zipdot. Why won't they learn?

"My father had taught me as a boy that America promises all people an opportunity to lead an extraordinary life. " James Yee

Do I hear an Amen?

IF THEIR GOD SUPPOSEDLY WANTS THEM TO BLOW THEIR BODIES UP, DEFILING THE GIFT OF FLESH. THEN MAYBE HE IS SATAN!

[edit on 12-10-2005 by topsecretombomb]

This article proves one thing. How far America has descended into the gutter under the Bush administration. What's even more disturbing are the people who defend this type of behaviour.

"America has lost its soul".



[edit on 12-10-2005 by kindred]

[edit on 12-10-2005 by kindred]

Nice picture of Yee ... all family like.
Nice story of Yee ... 'oh poor me, I'm a picked on muslim'.

Truth is he isn't a good family man, he committed adultry.
This is a punishable offense in the US military and he knows it.
Truth is he isn't a good muslim either.
He committed adultry and he had a whole lot of porn on his
military computer. Both of which are punishable offenses in
the military, and both of which go against his Muslim religion
and he knows it.

He went to Syria, which is a terrorist nation and is on the
US watch list. There are witness' that what he said to the
GITMO prisioners is different than what he told the military
that he said. He ridiculed American practices at GITMO to
the detainees. (aid and comfort to the enemy).

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

He made lists of detainees, their interrogaters names, and maps
that he drew of the place. All these things he 'mishandled' and
took out of secure areas. WHY?

Yee can whine all he wants that he was targeted because he's muslim.
However, there is plenty of smoke here, and where there is smoke,
there is fire ... or at least a short in the wires and a problem that
could become a fire.

The military was completely correct in detaining him and questioning
him further. I do not believe ANY of the allegations he claims against
the military. The man is a liar. He lied to his wife, his family, the
government and he broke many rules and laws. He has admitted to
these things. The military, for their own reasons, decided not to
persue the lesser charges of adultery and porn on military computers.
MY GUESS is because the public relations brass knew that it would
come across looking bad, even though Lee had indeed broken
military law.

So Yee can whine all he wants to. I'm not buying it.


[edit on 10/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

FlyersFan . . . kill the messenger, is that your point?

Kudos to FlyersFan for pointing out that there are two sides to every story. I don't know what really went on and probably never will. But I refuse to assume the worse about our military because this guy was given a hard time by them. Granted, I don't think they are all boy scouts, and I'm sure there are things that go on that I would have a problem with, but this guys story smacks of anti-military propaganda.

It wouldn't suprise me that the female officers did things to make the detainees uncomfortable, but I just don't see them getting naked and masturbating in front of them, it just doesn't sound plausible.

And for the person who comented about how had the military has gotten under Bushes rule, keep in mind that a lot of folks in command positions in the military are left over from the Clinton administration.

Flyersfan:

The military was completely correct in detaining him and questioning
him further. I do not believe ANY of the allegations he claims against
the military. The man is a liar. He lied to his wife, his family, the
government and he broke many rules and laws. He has admitted to
these things.

All these things make me kind of think that you actually know Mr. Yee personally.

But, of course, you don't. You call him a liar based on an article and your own specious logic.

Broke many rules and laws that he admitted to? Hmm, want to please link those specific laws he admits to breaking? Hmm?

And as for having pornography on a gov computer, ROFL! Is that a joke? Having porn on his PC makes him a terrorist?

Muslims looking at porn are evil, but Christians looking at it are what? Enlightened?

Truth is he isn't a good family man, he committed adultry.

Haha. Well, hate to break it to you, but you can cheat on your wife and still be a good family man. There are a whole bunch of reasons people stray from the bonds of matrimony.


Again, the world is unfortunately not as black vs white, us vs them, as you see it. You simplify things until they are so simple that even a 9 year old can understand them.

Unfortunately, most of your audience here is older, and have good critical thinking skills.

So Yee can whine all he wants to. I'm not buying it.

Based on nothing but your own keenly honed skill of going through online print articles and being able to magically gauge whether or not someone is telling the truth? Lol!


jako