Abu Ghraib Videos Show Children Being Raped

your both mistaken.


All those behind the bombings are actually the occupation. Mossad, CIA, SAS.

Two of them where captured in the act.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is no civil war in iraq, it's all synthetic, it's produced by the occupation who are trying hard to put a wedge between iraqies.

divide and conquer.

But it will not work, the iraqies are too smart, there will never be a civil war in iraq, they are united against the occupation.

Don't ever underestimate how much iraqies love their country, and how much that love brings them together

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
your both mistaken.
Don't ever underestimate how much iraqies love their country, and how much that love brings them together

I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
your both mistaken.
Don't ever underestimate how much iraqies love their country, and how much that love brings them together

I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong.

Don't worry. You have my guarantee

US soldiers are conditioned through their training, to dehumise the enemy, rape is just another weapon to crush iraq's spirit.

Just look at how it seems to be so much part of their culture. It has to be something the institutions covertly teach. A soldier is taught not to see fellow human beings as human, in the process he himself does inhuman things.

news.webindia123.com...

Sexual abuse rampant in the US military : Report
Washington | September 30, 2005 9:42:08 PM IST

Sexual abuse is rampant in the US military with sixty per cent of women and 27 per cent of men in the military reserves and the National Guard suffering sexual assault or harrassment during their service.

Eleven per cent of women serving in the reserves or National Guard experienced rape or attempted rape, compared to 1.2 per cent of males. More than half of the incidents take place at a military work site and during duty hours, and in most cases military personnel were the offenders, according to the long overdue report of the Department of Veterans Affairs released yesterday.

As time goes by it becomes blatently obvious that these aren't just some isolated incidents. This is looking more and more systematic.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by UiNeill


What its like in America?

poverty

racism

the chosen few

let them drown....sure theyre black

demcoracy?.......theres no such thing

American is beautiful; I have seen a great deal of it.

I live in a great area near Boston, massively racially diverse too. The trees are green, the grass is perfect and everything is clean. Crime is low in my area and people let their kids play unattended outside for hours and hours.

I have plenty of clean water to drink, every possible food and necessity is nearby and available. I have a good job even though I never finished college, enough so my wife doesn’t have to work and can stay home with my son.

Its funny, she has a dual major from UMass and stays home to be supported by somebody with just a high school degree, only in America huh? You know what’s that called? Limitless OPPORTUNITY. My boss is an AVP for a Fortune 300 company, he doesn’t have a degree either. And no other country in the world has the opportunities the USA has. NONE. Even for African Americans.

My immediate neighbors are from Pakistan. Their oldest boy is about to go on a full ride scholarship to college. They hardly speak English too, not bad huh? My wife and In-laws are from Hong Kong. The first USA born generation of wife’s family all has degrees from MIT, Brown, and other top level schools, mostly on scholarships from US institutions, companies, and the government.

I’m sorry; I must have slipped off on a tangent and forgot the topic, what were you saying about American racism, the chosen few, and poverty again? I’m sorry, where in the USA do you live that you can report this? OH…You don’t live in America…But you must know the truth, youre on the internet....

This is coming from someone who has lived in America for 18 years.

America is f'ed up.

I live in Seattle. My family immigrated here from India in the mid 1980s. My parents were discriminated against on a regular basis. One thing I will give America credit for is the amount of opportunity here, my mom and dad worked 3 jobs so that my dad could finish college and go to dental school. We now live in one of the most economically well off sections of town, just a few blocks from some of the Sonics, Mariners, Seahawks players, Microsoft founders, Doctors, Lawyers, and other Seattle elite...

Yet for some reason, I still get asked if my dad drives a Taxi or my parents own a 7/11. I still get called racial slurs, T*wel Head, Camel Jockey, even N*gger. I still get asked (harassed) if I'm a terrorist. One of my best friends is black, I couldn't even imagine enduring some of the sh*t he goes through.

Even in Seattle there was still a group of white kids in my Highschool that would wear Confederate flags, listen to hate music, and call minorities N*gger.

You dont seem to understand the amount of racism in America...why do I get the impression that you're white?

Yes, America is a great country. I mean, barring all the messed up things we've done over the years, like Assasinate democratically elected leaders in South America for being Communist, Iran Contra, creating problems so that we could "fix" them (the war on drugs, and more recently the war on terror), being one of the last nations to ban slavery and having a VERY bloody civil war over it before we did so, denying civil rights to those freed slaves until the 1960s...

We're the richest nation in the world, with the food we throw away we could feed all the starving people in the world. But we still have people starving to death here.

The list goes on and on.

America isn't the wonderland you make it out to be.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by ShakyaHeir]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
US soldiers are conditioned through their training, to dehumise the enemy, rape is just another weapon to crush iraq's spirit.

Just look at how it seems to be so much part of their culture. It has to be something the institutions covertly teach. A soldier is taught not to see fellow human beings as human, in the process he himself does inhuman things.

As someone who has served in the US military your statement is so full of crap that I can't go into it any more without running the risk of being banned.

There is no conditioning or brainwashing as a part of military training. This is why I have a hard time believing that the pictures and videos that started this thread even exist. I have said before that "show me these pictures of American military personel torturing and raping and I'll be the first person to help see that the guilty are punished. There are enough people who would love to see the Bush Administration embarassed that if they exist there is no way that the pictures or videos wouldn't have been leaked to the media by now.

I know from first hand experience that the US Military will go out of its way to ensure that civilians are not hurt. In 1983 I was an aircrewman on a US Navy helicopter evacuating wounded from the Marine barracks in Lebanon. We came under ground fire more than once from a machinegun nest on top of an apartment building. I had an easy shot at the gunners but was ordered not to fire because civilians lived in that building and if I missed I might hit some of them. I have no doubt that if we were shot down that some of those "civilians" would have probably cut my throat.

I will concede the point that in war there are going to be civilian casualties, but I do know that the US mIlitary will do the best that it can to avoid causing them even if it means that we take casualties. Now I am waiting for the reply that states that I don't know what I am talking about because I was indoctrinated and brainwashed by the US Military.

If you want to see an example of brainwashing and indoctrination, I suggest that you look in the mirror.

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by UiNeill


What its like in America?

poverty

racism

the chosen few

let them drown....sure theyre black

demcoracy?.......theres no such thing

American is beautiful; I have seen a great deal of it.

I live in a great area near Boston, massively racially diverse too. The trees are green, the grass is perfect and everything is clean. Crime is low in my area and people let their kids play unattended outside for hours and hours.

I have plenty of clean water to drink, every possible food and necessity is nearby and available. I have a good job even though I never finished college, enough so my wife doesn’t have to work and can stay home with my son.

Its funny, she has a dual major from UMass and stays home to be supported by somebody with just a high school degree, only in America huh? You know what’s that called? Limitless OPPORTUNITY. My boss is an AVP for a Fortune 300 company, he doesn’t have a degree either. And no other country in the world has the opportunities the USA has. NONE. Even for African Americans.

My immediate neighbors are from Pakistan. Their oldest boy is about to go on a full ride scholarship to college. They hardly speak English too, not bad huh? My wife and In-laws are from Hong Kong. The first USA born generation of wife’s family all has degrees from MIT, Brown, and other top level schools, mostly on scholarships from US institutions, companies, and the government.

I’m sorry; I must have slipped off on a tangent and forgot the topic, what were you saying about American racism, the chosen few, and poverty again? I’m sorry, where in the USA do you live that you can report this? OH…You don’t live in America…But you must know the truth, youre on the internet....

This is coming from someone who has lived in America for 18 years.

America is f'ed up.

I live in Seattle. My family immigrated here from India in the mid 1980s. My parents were discriminated against on a regular basis. One thing I will give America credit for is the amount of opportunity here, my mom and dad worked 3 jobs so that my dad could finish college and go to dental school. We now live in one of the most economically well off sections of town, just a few blocks from some of the Sonics, Mariners, Seahawks players, Microsoft founders, Doctors, Lawyers, and other Seattle elite...

Yet for some reason, I still get asked if my dad drives a Taxi or my parents own a 7/11. I still get called racial slurs, T*wel Head, Camel Jockey, even N*gger. I still get asked (harassed) if I'm a terrorist. One of my best friends is black, I couldn't even imagine enduring some of the sh*t he goes through.

Even in Seattle there was still a group of white kids in my Highschool that would wear Confederate flags, listen to hate music, and call minorities N*gger.

You dont seem to understand the amount of racism in America...why do I get the impression that you're white?

Yes, America is a great country. I mean, barring all the messed up things we've done over the years, like Assasinate democratically elected leaders in South America for being Communist, Iran Contra, creating problems so that we could "fix" them (the war on drugs, and more recently the war on terror), being one of the last nations to ban slavery and having a VERY bloody civil war over it before we did so, denying civil rights to those freed slaves until the 1960s...

We're the richest nation in the world, with the food we throw away we could feed all the starving people in the world. But we still have people starving to death here.

The list goes on and on.

America isn't the wonderland you make it out to be.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by ShakyaHeir]

I bet you mope around and sulk about this, dont you? Guess what? Everyone gets picked on! I'm a pasty white nerd. For that, i've been picked on my entire life. The difference between me and you is that I shrugged it off and carried on. There are going to be jerks no matter where you are or who you are.

My opinion is that America is a great place. You just have to be willing to take life with a grain of salt and work hard.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by Dronetek]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
your both mistaken.


All those behind the bombings are actually the occupation. Mossad, CIA, SAS.

With respet you dont have any knowledge about british intelligence services do you at all?
You also dont know that the SAS is not the most secretive unit the british military and is thanks to that picked 9/10 times as the "secret" unit that commits any acts commited that involve the UK?

Also , the CIA is intelligence, only 1/4th of thier staff commits any field work and that is only intel gathering.
If though you wish to discuss who would commit a bombing I could quite gladly list off a few units and orginisations that would do so effectively and more secretivley.
Do you want to do that?

Two of them where captured in the act.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Those 2 soldeirs where on recon, if they where going to commit an attack the police would not have captured them.
Why?
Because the SAS never travel in units any less than 4, why? Its what there taught from training, they never go on operations with less than 4 men.
Its called the "sas BLOCK" , derived in WW2 by the original SAS "the desert rats" and is still in use today.

There is no civil war in iraq, it's all synthetic, it's produced by the occupation who are trying hard to put a wedge between iraqies.

If that where so syrian we would have done it at the start, what better way to start a civil war than to say the other side was working with the enemy and that the other side is abusing thier trust?

divide and conquer.

If we wanted that we could have done so, easily and efficiently.

But it will not work, the iraqies are too smart, there will never be a civil war in iraq, they are united against the occupation.

Really?
Mabye you should read up more about Tim Collins and his experiences in iraq, but ofcourse since I keep going back to him theres bound to be a "lack" of credibility and for that I do apologise that I keep going back to that one source.
You'll find that all is not as it seems.
You know that many iraqis where at the throats of Ba'th party members?
Hell british soldiers had to stop iraqis from raiding hospitals and attacking ba'th party head quarters, but eventually they did come to agreement atleast in the towns that Tim Collins was in.

Don't ever underestimate how much iraqies love their country, and how much that love brings them together

That I agree they do love thier country and they love thier heritige to.
You know that the iraqi's kept a british wargrave secret from sadamm and the Ba'th party for over 60 years?
The whole town protected and kept secret the site and they knew every single soldeir who was burried ther by memory just about.
But, dont think for a second that they "The iraqi people as a whole" hate the british, infact many are decent ordinary people who just want to live and as always its the minorities that make the most noise and chaos.

Originally posted by Seekerof

In the applied case, the sanctions would not have been placed if not for the actions of Saddam, correct?
But according to your logic, lets not blame the side at fault or the one being punished, but lets blame the ones who did the punishing?

Just to clarify for my own peace of mind, I wasn't talking about sanctions. That was your discussion with other people. I responded to your 'rape' analogy, thinking that you were discussing the thread subject: "Abu Ghraib Videos Show Children Being Raped"

The 'abominable action' is rape in either scenario. Or on a wider scale, all the torture we've performed on the prisoners at various sites.

Our country should be ashamed. And I am.

Using the sanctions to justify what we've done is like saying that the girl in your rape analogy was wearing a short skirt and she asked for it. The man kept telling her to dress more appropriately, but she didn't listen, so he raped her and then tries to blame her. It's a weasel's way out.

Either way, whatever you're using to justify what we've done to Iraq and their people (even if they are prisoners... Even if they are GUILTY prisoners) does not justify it. The acts we've performed are unconscionable.

Just wanted to set straight exactly what I was responding to.

As someone who has served in the US military your statement is so full of crap that I can't go into it any more without running the risk of being banned.

There is no conditioning or brainwashing as a part of military training.

All military training is conditioning, and much is brain washing.

The same is true in any nation.

You do not create soldiers by debate.....

Can you explain how you could know of everything that happened in the US military by simply being a single member?

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Can you explain how you could know of everything that happened in the US military by simply being a single member?

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Can you explain how you could know of everything that happened in the US military by simply being a single member?

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Could you explain how you would know if I had, or had not been a member of the military?

Can you explain how military training is NOT conditioning?

Military training is the conditioning to an extent of soldiers, but only in the sense that each soldier acts the same, dresses the same, and above all, will look out for each other in a combat situation. That is the main conditioning they get.

They are taught this from the start of their training. At no point are they brain washed. My son isn't brain washed, he is just a skilled soldier who has been taught the correct procedure whilst in combat. I don't remember him ever mentioning that they were brain washed into committing rape etc.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Could you explain how you would know if I had, or had not been a member of the military?

Can you explain how military training is NOT conditioning?

Educated guess. If you had ever served you wouldn't have made such a statement.

Ah, this is a good thread. I truly appreciate the dialogue. You are all committed and intelligent people. I appreciate your thoughts. It's so difficult to have these discussions at a party. No one wants their good time spoiled by images of child rape or murder.

"the sanctions would not have been placed if not for the actions of Saddam, correct? " by Seekerof.

To the extent of Saddam's culpability, why do we feel that we can hold an entire nation of people hostage due to one tyrant's refusal to allow arms inspectors? Of course Saddam blocked the inspectors as soon as the mention was made that sanctions could be lifted soon. He loved the sanctions because (1) he felt the same about the mass of Iraqis as Bush feels about the mass of Americans and (2) the sanctions served his purposes. It is a feeling of total disregard in the face of his goals of power and authority. We should also question our willingness to attack civilian targets (since at least WWII) in order to obtain our military goals. Is that moral? I suggest that it is not. Sanctions targeted the populace, not Saddam.

We must define our terms. What is brainwashing? If it is simply conditioning then the military does indeed engage in it. Your loyalty to men in uniform you have never met - simply because they wear the team colors - in the face of the vast evidence of torture, murder and rape of Iraqis in custody of all ages and both genders indicates to me that your conditioning was quite effective. I am not criticizing you. (This time ) However it is clear that our miltary breaks down inductees/volunteers in boot camp and makes the army the new mother/parent figure and the fellow soldiers the new brothers and sisters. Why? How can you be loyal to a complete stranger in battle unless you have suffered a common difficult expereince (such as boot camp). It's the same in atheletics. Part of the reason for the intensive team training is to bond the team members.

Tell me this, when you meet another soldier for the fist time aren't the first issues discussed who you are with, where you did basic, how long you've been in, what "s-it" you've been in, and maybe where you're originally from, etc.? It's a bonding exercise. Your already on the same team but you intentionally seek to deepen the bond. He might save your butt down the road.

Another thing, many of those brought in to guard the Iraqis have prior experience in US jails. US jails are usually a HUGE nightmare with rape and abuse a fairly regular occurrence. If you like I can quote some figures for you. These people brought their practices of humiliation and degradation with them. The fox is indeed in the henhouse. Bottom line is that this abuse of Iraqis has been going on long enough that there is no question that it is sanctioned if not directed from above. Our leaders have no soul.

14th April: SCR 986 is passed unanimously.

SCR 986, the so called ‘Oil for Food’ programme, allows Iraq to sell a limited amount of oil to buy food and medicines, but not much else. Repair of infrastructure is essentially still prohibited. Under the programme Iraq can sell up to $2 billion worth of oil every six months. The revenue is to be paid into a UN controlled escrow account, and from it 30% deducted for compensation claims, and 2.2% deducted for the running of the programme. UN personnel stationed in Iraq, in co-operation with Iraqi workers, will distribute supplies purchased.

(Some UN member states, including Russia, China, France and Indonesia, had called for a complete lifting of sanctions. ‘The Independent’ quoted French and Russian diplomats in its’ article of April 14th as saying: ‘ [There is no point in adopting a resolution merely as]…..a public relations tool enabling the US and Britain to continue blaming Iraq for hardships caused by sanctions…’

The implementation of SCR 986 was tortuous. It wasn’t until March 20th 1997 that the first shipment of food actually arrived in Iraq: 125 tons of chickpeas and vegetable ghee. The practical problems of a low oil price and the dilapidated state of Iraq’s oil facilities compounded the lack of revenue Iraq was able to raise.

Simons makes the point that Iraq was not a member of the Security Council and had no say in the drafting process, which was drawn up by American officials. Could it be reasonably expected to sacrifice its’ principal asset to the administration of the same country that publicly stated on many occasions its’ dedication to the overthrow of the regime? Iraq, in a desperate position, eventually agreed to negotiate. [See May 20th 1996])

www.firethistime.org...

The only ones who could stop the sanctions from ending were the big five with their vetoes.

Russia, China, and France were not the ones keeping the sactions in place.

To the extent of Saddam's culpability, why do we feel that we can hold an entire nation of people hostage due to one tyrant's refusal to allow arms inspectors? Of course Saddam blocked the inspectors as soon as the mention was made that sanctions could be lifted soon.

Saddam did not kick out the UN inspectors, Bill Klinton did.

Looks like one more media falsehood is going to be put down in this thread.....

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Read these.

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

Unlike you, these men have proven their identity, and their statements are damning.

Syrian Sister, where do you currently reside?
Are you living in the middle-east??
I am very eager to know..
It doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but there's this informal survey I'm conducting on ATS..
So If you be so kind as to tell me where you are currently living and if you are of Syrian/Middle-eastern origin..
Thanks in advance..

Originally posted by Dronetek
I bet you mope around and sulk about this, dont you? Guess what? Everyone gets picked on! I'm a pasty white nerd. For that, i've been picked on my entire life. The difference between me and you is that I shrugged it off and carried on. There are going to be jerks no matter where you are or who you are.

My opinion is that America is a great place. You just have to be willing to take life with a grain of salt and work hard.
[edit on 1-10-2005 by Dronetek]

No actually I dont. I just get pissed off when people make America out to be something that it's not. And the fact that we still have people wearing and flying the confederate flag says something about our country. Yeah we have freedom of speech, but the confederate flag is a symbol of treason and so freedom of speech/expression doesn't apply to it.

And since you brought up the fact that your white and you get picked on, tell me one racial slur for white people that is even close to as bad as "N*gger".