NEWS: Much of Los Angeles Loses Power

Seems you all have already forgotten about the Midwest black out of two years ago. What caused it? ONE simple thing failed and the failures cascaded down the line, further and further away. So who's to say that one line being cut couldn't have caused a problem?

Again, I highly doubt it's related to the recent solar activity.

As for the media saying right away it's not terrorist related, can you really blame them? When there was the Midwest black out what was the first thing I thought of? Terrorists. Cut out the power, lose communications, attack in the panic. That was what I thought was happening, especially since Detroit is somewhere on the target list. They're just informing people that it is not a terrorist attack, that's all. They're keeping people calm. No one wants there to be riots or a mass panic.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Just on FOX they said the guy cut the wrong line then tried to hook it up again to the wrong line which caused a huge power surge and tripped off generators all throughout the system, causing 50% of customers to lose power....I wouldn't want to be that guy right now, doubt he'll be employed for long

[edit on 9/12/2005 by djohnsto77]

I bet the feds will be checking his background info, maybe see if he has a video camera that fits the videotape of a purported al-Qaida member making terrorist threats against Los Angeles and Melbourne....

Originally posted by Genfinity
Ive heard (sorry, no link so dont take this as gospel) that Texas doesnt receive electricity from outside Texas.

Does anyone know if thats true or not?

That's not 100% true. I used to live in El Paso, and about 5-6 years ago there was a 3-day black out because something happened to a plant in Arizona (I believe.)

Then again, it's arguable whether El Paso should be considered part of Texas or part of Mexico...

(Sorry to go kinda off topic, just wanted to add on to that comment...)

From a grid map I saw shown on the news the system failed at a hub on the LA/Burbank border and cascaded down to the harbor from there. Three major production plants went down, Long Beach/Seal Beach, Wilmington, and Playa del Rey. I used to live in Playa, still have a lot of friends on the westside. I was able to get through to one good friend and give him a heads-up so he could go get his young daughter from school. He was golfing, had no idea......

[edit on 12-9-2005 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Wow...
LA lost power for a few hours...

Good... now the rest of the country has enough for the winter...


It is a good thing electricity doesn't cause brain damage, or Los Angelians would be ....
nevermind... that one was too easy...

yes, let us hope that power returns before nightfall, becuase we all know that the patients get restless without their fix. (sarcastic)

California actually uses less electricty per person than almost every other State in the US. I'm not sure exactly how much LA uses but I doubt it's that far from the rest of the state.
Californians Aren't Energy Hogs

I know it's not an American source, but the Beeb is reporting that the cause is still unknown:

Police have declared an emergency in Los Angeles after power mysteriously died in several parts of the city.
Traffic lights went blank, lifts stopped and LA International airport had to switch to emergency power.

The cause of the power cut was being investigated, but a police spokeswoman said terrorism was not suspected.
Source..BBC

Jury is still out on this one....at least on this side of the Pond.

Just thought I would give you guys an non-American viewpoint..as we know some of your media is...erm....questionable....

THIS ARTICLE WAS LINKED ON DRUDGE TO NBC4.TV.
I'M NOT AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER BUT HOW CAN 2 SEPERATE SYSTEMS CAUSE THIS? I'VE LIVED IN BURBANK ALL MY LIFE AND I UNDERSTAND BWP TO BE TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM LA COUNTIES, DWP. GO FIGURE???

Power Returns To Some Parts Of L.A. Area
Outages Extend From San Fernando Valley To Downtown

POSTED: 12:53 pm PDT September 12, 2005
UPDATED: 3:25 pm PDT September 12, 2005

LOS ANGELES -- Power officials reported outages Monday afternoon from the San Fernando Valley to downtown Los Angeles.





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Los Angeles Department of Water and Power officials said the outage was linked to human error at a receiving station near Burbank. Workers connected the wrong wires, causing a surge of power that led to shutdowns at three power generating stations, according to officials.

Receiving stations take high-voltage power from generating stations and convert it to lower voltage. It can then be used throughout the city.

Ron Deaton, general manager of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, said the system is designed to shut down when it receives too much power.

"They connected it to another line that was not expecting that much electricity," said Deaton.

Power went out at about 1 p.m.

The cable has been rewired, according to authorities. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's office said at 2:30 p.m. that power was restored to 90 percent of Los Angeles customers.

Authorities said power will be restored to all areas by Monday evening.

Traffic lights, including ramp meters, were affected by the outages. Officials said the outage might slow traffic Monday afternoon.

A major portion of the San Fernando Valley reported outages, but power was being restored in some areas just before 2 p.m.

Several schools were without power. Students were kept in classrooms.

Sporadic outages occurred in downtown Los Angeles. Authorities said some people were trapped in elevators in the downtown area.

Los Angeles International Airport lost power, but an emergency generator was triggered. No flights were affected. UCLA Medical Center used backup generators and reported no danger to patients.

The outage also affected Burbank, which is part of a system separate from surrounding communities.

Emergency services were operating, according to authorities. The police department was on "full tactical alert," meaning officers remained on duty past their scheduled shifts.

Watch NBC4 and refresh this page for updates.

[edit on 9/12/2005 by Illuminated_1]

My lattes have been uninterrupted, had no clue that there was even an issue... Must be some other part of Los Angeles...

Rodeo Drive Monkeys, not just for Prada anymore...

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Seems you all have already forgotten about the Midwest black out of two years ago. What caused it? ONE simple thing failed and the failures cascaded down the line, further and further away. So who's to say that one line being cut couldn't have caused a problem?

Not even Congress said the August 2003 blackout was caused by a single event, so were you getting your info from?
_____________________________

The failure of many lines and the self-protective tripping of some generators led to a situation at 4:10 Eastern Standard Time in which the eastern Michigan and northern Ohio systems had little available generation left, while voltage was declining throughout the areas. Then, at 4:10:38, when the main transmission line running east from northeast Ohio failed, power that had been flowing west into Ohio reversed direction. That surge started to literally flood grids around Lake Erie through northwest New York State and Ontario, as power sought to find its way into northern Michigan to satisfy unmet load in that region.
www.spectrum.ieee.org...

In a separate letter to House investigators, FirstEnergy Corp., the Ohio-based company whose generating plant and transmission-line failures have been at the center of the blackout investigation, dismissed the notion that a single event triggered the blackout.

"The events of the day ... involved thousands of separate and discrete incidents across a widespread multisystem region," H. Peter Burg, FirstEnergy's chairman and chief executive, wrote the committee.
www.dailytexanonline.com...

My mistake, I thought it was caused by a single incident in Ohio. I guess not though. Still though, I wouldn't rule the possibility of it out. Espeically since LA is nothing in compared to size with the Midwest blackout.

Originally posted by curme
Oh, geez! Where is Brownie when you need him?

You took the words right out of my mouth!

They're probably denying terrorism off the bat in hopes it is a regular blackout and wanting to try and keep the public from panicking.

I've noticed that in this day and age, even mundane incidents like a train jumping the track bring the response of "This was not a terrorist attack"! almost immediately. I fear that this will become part of our regular jargon, if it hasn't already.

I remember the blackout in new york, thursday 14 aug 2003,
www.cnn.com...

I know that i've got a suspisious mind, but two weeks to the day a blackout accured in london
news.bbc.co.uk...

It just seemed to much of a coincidence,
maybe they'll be a blackout in england in the next couple of weeks,
If it happens, then that'll be spooky,
If not, then i'm just being paranoid.

CNN, just stated worker error for blackout

I find it interesting that this occured in Los Angeles after an apparent terrorist threat this weekend.

Not that I'm saying it was or has to do with a terrorist attack, but I find it strange that this would occur in LA right after the threat.

Was it planned perhaps?

Originally posted by iamian


I know that i've got a suspisious mind, but two weeks to the day a blackout accured in london

It just seemed to much of a coincidence,
maybe they'll be a blackout in england in the next couple of weeks,
If it happens, then that'll be spooky,
If not, then i'm just being paranoid.

CNN, just stated worker error for blackout

Can add the Italy and Switzerland blackout to that coincidence list

The 2003 Italy blackout was a serious power outage that affected all of Italy, except the island of Sardinia for 9 hours and part of Switzerland near Geneva for 3 hours on 28 September 2003.

It was actually cool in LA today so they couldnt blame an overload on a power grid causing problems. So the "guy" who cut the cable story sounds reasonable enough.

It was a drill...thats what it was. On Fox they were comenting how well behaved people were, yadda yadda...

Yes, look at them, obeying traffic cops...how nice...

It went very well...

More to come....

I'M NOT AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER BUT HOW CAN 2 SEPERATE SYSTEMS CAUSE THIS? I'VE LIVED IN BURBANK ALL MY LIFE AND I UNDERSTAND BWP TO BE TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM LA COUNTIES, DWP. GO FIGURE???

The systems are not necessarily separate.
The Western United States are tied together into one large grid.
Same thing is true of the East Coast.

Large grids may not seem to be a good idea to the layman, but an interconnected system is stronger - electrically speaking - than is a smaller system on it's own.

Power surge is a misnomer as well.
What you're looking at is a dip caused by fault current (short circuit).
Surges raise the voltage, dips lower the voltage.

Keep in mind One KV = 1000 volts.

One example of a surge is if a 16kv line fell onto a 4kv line thereby impressing four times the voltage onto the 4kv system.
Not good for refrigerators and other nifty applicances.

The power system operates at a frequency of 60HZ (HZ = Hertz or cycles as they were called a few years back).

If you lose a resource, generation or an incoming line that's delivering power, the frequency (HZ) drops and if it goes far enough down automatic load shedding relays shut down areas which can be many miles apart depending on their frequency shut down settings.
Sounds bad, but it is good because the remaining resources can get back to 60HZ and the whole system doesn't go down.

You can probably find some information on Google about the New York outages of 1964 and the later one.
The write-ups are interesting and if you find the right one they are very welll explained.

I believe the second NY outage I read about was in an Electrical Engineering magazine so perhaps that's a good place to start.

Originally posted by Desert Dawg

I'M NOT AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER BUT HOW CAN 2 SEPERATE SYSTEMS CAUSE THIS? I'VE LIVED IN BURBANK ALL MY LIFE AND I UNDERSTAND BWP TO BE TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM LA COUNTIES, DWP. GO FIGURE???

The systems are not necessarily separate.
The Western United States are tied together into one large grid.
Same thing is true of the East Coast.

Large grids may not seem to be a good idea to the layman, but an interconnected system is stronger - electrically speaking - than is a smaller system on it's own.

Power surge is a misnomer as well.
What you're looking at is a dip caused by fault current (short circuit).
Surges raise the voltage, dips lower the voltage.

Keep in mind One KV = 1000 volts.

One example of a surge is if a 16kv line fell onto a 4kv line thereby impressing four times the voltage onto the 4kv system.
Not good for refrigerators and other nifty applicances.

The power system operates at a frequency of 60HZ (HZ = Hertz or cycles as they were called a few years back).

If you lose a resource, generation or an incoming line that's delivering power, the frequency (HZ) drops and if it goes far enough down automatic load shedding relays shut down areas which can be many miles apart depending on their frequency shut down settings.
Sounds bad, but it is good because the remaining resources can get back to 60HZ and the whole system doesn't go down.

You can probably find some information on Google about the New York outages of 1964 and the later one.
The write-ups are interesting and if you find the right one they are very welll explained.

I believe the second NY outage I read about was in an Electrical Engineering magazine so perhaps that's a good place to start.

I really do appreciate the feedback.

Maybe we all just need to face the fact that these power systems are being overused, are outdated, and like Murphy's Law... If anything can go wrong, it will.

It would take a helluvalotta nerve for someone to engineer a shortage like Enron did in 2001. Or a blackout. Terrorists have that nerve though.

Still I think that upgraded systems are what a forward thinking electrical engineer would want, except there's the Murphy's Tech Law:

New systems generate new problems.

It will be dark out here in a couple of hours. If you were trying to start a riot, those are the places you would leave without power as the sun goes down.

In light of recent developments and my own growing understanding of what may be going down, I don't like this one bit!

Electric utilities are constantly upgrading their protection systems and rebuilding the system proper so as to handle the expected load.

New technology is not put into use in all parts of the system right away, but eventually the entire system is upgraded.
Utilities are to a great extent very conservative about changes.

One of the problems for electric utilities is the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) syndrome.
If lines and generation plants are not allowed to be built, there will be more major outages in the future.

Keep in mind too that it's not in the utilities best interest to put out the precise reasons for a problem.
Along with that, company spokesmen most times don't really know the electrical system and tell the media the problem as they understand it - which most times is incorrect.

Along with that is the media's tendency to run with a story before the facts are in.

Wouldn't want the facts to interfere with the truth....




[edit on 12-9-2005 by Desert Dawg]