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Lake Van Monster - New Theories?

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posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Indeed, we missed very important issue here (reminding me why it's important to get other people's input!)... What would such a "monster" eat if it existed? So far we assumed that it would eat the darekh fish if it were a carnivore. But it’s true that an animal that size would consume huge amounts of fish (or vegetation) and it's quite safe to assume that there's more than one of these animals (monsters). Could a lake of that size provide enough food for a couple of animals of that size?

I had no replies to any of my other mails.
None from Dr Demirsoy from the University of Hacettepe, nor from Val Moulton the Marine biologist. The other member of the Crypto society I contacted was Ben Roesch. I didn't want to disclose his name earlier because he and Jan Sundberg are sworn enemies because of personal and professional differences.

At this stage we have a huge lack of evidence other than the video. Is it (sad as it is to admit) time to acknowledge that the Lake Van Monster does not exist? Or is there enough reason to believe that as with Loch Ness and the other Lakes there resides a mystical creature?

What we need right now, is some more information on the amphibious life forms in Lake Van, specifically the vegetation, and secondly - even more important - a source of eye-witnesses!




posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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Would it even be possible for an aquatic animal of any significant size to live in Lake Van? I ask this because the lake itself is a highly saline lake, with very large concentrations of sodium carbonate and other salts which are extracted from the lake to make detergents. You can even wash your clothes in the lake and effectively clean them without detergents as a result (Reference).

From Wikipedia's article on Lake Van:



Vans waters are rich in sodium carbonate and other salts which are extracted by evaporation and used as detergents. Darekh, a species of herring caught during the spring floods, spawns near the mouths of streams feeding the lake and is the only fish that can survive in the brackish waters.


Given the high concentrations of salt in the lake, it seems unlikely that the population of Darekh fish would be sufficient to sustain even one large aquatic animal, let alone any larger number. Even if this were not the case, would the water be too brackish to sustain a large, unknown creature?



posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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Looks kinda like an elephant to me.



posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Well... ok all our theories all have major issues/flaws.

I even theorized about a Stegosaurus, a dragon, or a local animal was just out for a swim and perhaps escapes to the hills to live... Yeah I know grasping for straws... right! lol

It is all but frustrating...

Seriously how could something 50 foot living in a lake that has no apparent outlet disappear? It is trapped like a rat. It would of been captured 50 times over... We could sit here and come up with a million ideas of what it could be or what it is. The facts are lined up steep against. Look at this link of a 55 foot inflatable whale with children and adults next to it. You mean to tell me if a whale was living in this lake nobody would see it?

I have not received any emails from anyone. I do not want to hassle anyone for information. Bottom line. I think some kind of creature is in or around that lake, but at this point all we got is a video tape. All our leads are dead, missing, or not interested.

I am throwing in the towel, until eye witnesses or other proof comes to light. Gemwolf and others our energy and work was not in vain we are just at a dead end or stand still. There is just nothing more we can do until some thing surfaces. -pun intended!



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah25
Would it even be possible for an aquatic animal of any significant size to live in Lake Van? I ask this because the lake itself is a highly saline lake, with very large concentrations of sodium carbonate and other salts which are extracted from the lake to make detergents. You can even wash your clothes in the lake and effectively clean them without detergents as a result (Reference).

From Wikipedia's article on Lake Van:



Vans waters are rich in sodium carbonate and other salts which are extracted by evaporation and used as detergents. Darekh, a species of herring caught during the spring floods, spawns near the mouths of streams feeding the lake and is the only fish that can survive in the brackish waters.


I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a creature because of the high concentration of salts. The darekh are more than enough proof that life can in fact exist in the salt lake.
I do agree with you that it's highly unlikely that the darekh would be enough of a food supply to support such a huge animal.
But then let's keep in mind whales. These animals are also huge, in plain words. Yet they survive on plankton... Now if the whales fed on fish, would the oceans have been able to support their existence? I don't know the answer, but I do know that our fish industries would have been affected! Is it possible that there is a similar food supply in Lake Van - like plankton - to support these alleged creatures? Again we don't know the answer, due to the lack of information about Lake Van.

I did one last search looking for something to keep our investigation alive…

Here’s what I found.

1. The Book

A book: In the Domain of Lake Monsters by John, III Kirk
Amazon.com where one of the reviews had this to say:



One absence I found disappointing, considering the recent publication date of the book, was some discussion of the Lake Van monster of Turkey, which has gotten significant media coverage in recent years. I could only find reference to Lake Van in the appendix.


2. The Site

Those of us searching for some info on the Lake Van Monster all know that there is nothing on the Internet about this creature - other than the same CNN report quoted word for word on all the websites... Until I found this one: AmericanMonsters.com
It states the following interesting "facts":

A credible eyewitness and the government promising an enquiry:


A parliamentary commission has agreed to send a search party designed to unveil Turkey's version of the Loch Ness Monster, after the provincial deputy governor claimed to have seen it."


The animal actually goes back to at least 915 AC...


the earliest reported encounters with the creature come from as late as 1995! That having been stated, there are some persistent rumors regarding an ancient engraving - discovered in a small church on one of Lake Van's four islands - which is said to accurately depict the features of the animal in the lake.

I couldn't find any actual pictures of this claimed engraving, but here's the aghtamar church...

A member of the scientific community supports our latest opinion that the Lake couldn't sustain such a big animal:


The scientific establishments of Turkey, much like the eyewitnesses, are at a loss to explain the identity or origin of the animal. Biology professor at Ataturk University in Erzurum, Orhan Erman, claimed that there is nothing that even remotely resembles "Vanna", capable of living in the lake:

"It is simply not possible for a creature of the size claimed by witnesses to live in a closed lake like Van."



The creator of the Site didn't do his/her homework:


...their images to be scrutinized by the members of the marine biology faculty of the prestigious Cambridge University, as well as the renowned oceanographer Jacques Cousteau...

We know this is false, as Jacques Cousteau never received the video tape, and he passed away before he could enlighten us with his insight. Wonder if we should even bother to contact Cambridge University...

3. Aghtamar: Church of the Holy Cross

I couldn't find any pictures of the mentioned picture of the creature depicted in the church. This Site hosts some pictures of the art work at the church. When we refer to the church and the alleged monster picture, we need to keep in mind that there's art works of gargoyles in the church as well...

4. My Conclusion

As GameSetMatch said... We reached a dead end. I feel comfortable saying that this thread is probably the most thorough documentation of the Lake Van Monster on the Internet. We are no closer to knowing what the creature in the video is, but we did get some answers, which made it worth the effort. Until we get some more info, this case remains open... LoL....


@GameSetMatch. It's most enjoyable investigating something alongside you...!! Could we dig something else out of the archives we could investigate? What do you think? I'm open to suggestions.



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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I believe some creature indeed lives in or near Lake Van and the people and/or government of Turkey are protecting the monsters very existence. If they are truly protecting Lake Van secrets than I could only hope they continue to do so. I want to believe that is the truth about it. With that being said the case remains open and I am happy with that.

Yeah, I agree; we have the most centralized documented information on the topic on the Internet period.


Gemwolf, I would be more than happy to do another investigation with ya. At the moment I do not have any thing of interest. u2u me if you have something in mind.



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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I was doing some research on the Dover Demon.

When are old friend from Lake Van was spotted in toy form. Interesting enough that the caption for the toy mentioned the 1995 report. lol but the toy looks nothing like the creature that was described in the 1995 report. Is there another report or is this just confusion of stories?



This toy.. if creditable to any eye witnesses reports; It looks seriously more like it is from the Mosasaur family.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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Just a few comments:
- Lake Van Monster is nothing new, here in Europe it is known for many years. And in Turkey even longer. Actually, in Van area there are known pistures of a strange water creature made by prehistoric hunters. Also, on depopulated Ahmatar island on the lake, there is old Armenian church from 10th century. On its wall is depicted a boat and a reptile-like creature. 3 persons on the boat are apparently sacrificing another person to the creature.
- Among monster witnesses were also such people like Bestami Alkan, deputy governor of Van province, and a member of Turkish parliament Zeki Ergezen
- Don´t believe any bulls.h.i.t about "terrosism" and "war" in the area. Though there are some military checkpoints, overall the area is accessible without problems and local people are very friendly, especially to foreigners (well, perhaps Americans are less popular then people from Europe, but I still think it is safer here then, lets say, in the center of London).
- One of the best theories about the monster says it is a giant sturgeon.



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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First of all i should say i'm a Turk and I am from Van. I study industrial engineering in Turkey(METU). Well i have investigated the whole monster thing since 90ies, and i haven't reached a serious fact yet, but some gossips. Here they are:
1- The people who say they have seen "the monster", they usually say things which conflict with the other people. I mean they saw a dot, but they tell it like a big dragon and another person tells the story like they saw a huge fish. So I think they just want attention.
2- The only significant proof is the huge bublings on the surface. They are sometimes big water spurts. Usually the local fishermen are the witnesses. Sometimes they drag it up, too. Once one of them said "the monster bit my boat!!" . Well, once i have seen one of those water spurts, it wasn't very big, but water was splashed from nowhere, but there wasn't any living thing there, at least i couldn't see it. Some people say it is squeezed underwater coming outside from deep down. When we ask "nobody was seeing it before 90ies?" they answer that it is the squeezed water in the east part of Turkey, which the main cause is the newly built river-barrages.
3- Some villagers around the lake said that a person gave them money to carry plastics and fabrics to the lake and they loaded them to a boat. Well, it seems true because they weren't on a TV interview or anything. I just heard the gossip.

And about the other discussions here, i have somethings to say.
The only living thing in the lake are the darekh fish. They move to the rivers around the lake to reproduce and fertilize their eggs. And then after they are done they move to the lake again. So they can live both in salty(alkaline) and sweet water. The alkaline part makes the non-living environment, because even seafish can't live in alkaline. There are planktons i guess, because if there isn't any planktons, then the darekh have nothing to eat. There isn't many plants in the deep, so... And there are no squids in the lake, if there were they would have reproduced many, and at least one of them would end up in a net of the fishermen. So if there is anything it has to be huge..
Since all those years i couldn't see a thing. Maybe it is because there isn't anything to see.
Well if you have any questions for me , i would be glad to answer..



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Thanks PhenerLee


I know I believed at one point it was possible that a creature could be living there. Since then I'm not so sure. Things just do not add up...

To many variables, and the knowledge we do have the logic dos not fit. So I am concluding that it is a hoax. A good run, but *sigh nothing more.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by PhenerLee
Well if you have any questions for me , i would be glad to answer..

Thanks for the inside info PhenerLee. Great to hear from an actual Van resident. There's only one piece of the puzzle I would love to see... Do you maybe have a photo of the supposed picture of the "monster" in the church (Aghtamar: Church of the Holy Cross), or if not have you seen this and is it really worth mentioning in the legend of the Lake Van monster?



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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This is a picture of the carvings on the church. As you can see the bottom-left drawing shows some people sacrifices a person to a big fish/monster. And the bottom-middle picture shows only the creature. The church is 10th century church, so if they have seen the monster and carved it to the walls, then the chances are very high for the monster being real.
Besides there are my other thoughts that i didn't mention. if there is a monster, then there should be a whole species out there, so it can continue its generation, so these animals have big or small members. Noone has mentioned a small one before. All so-called witnesses tell big dragons. IN my personal opinion, if there is a monster, it is not like the one in the video(I am %99 sure it is fake, because Ömer Kozak sold the video to TVs for a great money and then he dissappeared, and the bublings are very ridiculous). Anyway, if there is a monster then it should be something like in the carvings, lso i think it is not a dinosour. It may be something like a seal. And a few years ago a completely hairless creature was found on the beach. I saw the photo and i couldn't see any similarity between any animal and it. The local university examined the animal and decided "it was a small bear maybe fell in the river and the river took it to the lake and then the alkaline structure of the lake turned the bear to this weird creature". Well i thought they just wanted the people to shut up, the TVs and no other media knew about this incident..
And about the bigness of the lake, it is the biggest lake in Turkey, as mentioned before. And the local people in here refers the lake as"the sea". So it is big enough for a species to live, to shelter and to feed.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:29 AM
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This is great stuff PhenerLee! Gemwolf and myself have been waiting for someone like yourself for sometime.
Thank you for sharing and providing the elusive picture. The creature depiction looks more like pagan fantasy than a possible living creature.

Actually now that I have been looking at the depiction some more. This looks to be telling of the story best known as "Jonah and the whale" Any thoughts?

[edit on 7-3-2006 by GameSetMatch]



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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The walls of the church is full of the scenes from Bible. this one for example illustrates the fight between David and Goliath. And the scene with the big fish illustrates "Jonah and the whale" according to the historians. Actually in my religion(Islam) it is not a whale it is a dolphin(in Turkish Jonah means "Yunus" also dolphin means "Yunus"). Anyway, the creature in the second carving is different from a whale or a dolphin. It is different, maybe they thaught the whale could look like somthing like that(they probably never saw a dolphin or whale
). Maybe they carved a figure they saw from water, well there is a probability isn't there?



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