U.S. warns China on energy ties to Iran

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posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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Don't pretend you didn't see this coming, this has been years in the making, both sides are reevaluating how they view each other. Now the US has confronted the China Iran relationship, so is this the beginning move against Iran? Or I wonder, in the much bigger picture is this the beginning of another 50 year old By-Polar tension?


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China will be increasingly in conflict with the United States if it continues to pursue energy deals with countries like Iran and is unlikely to gain the energy security it seeks, a senior U.S. official said on Tuesday.

Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick said he was not sure how much of Beijing's energy drive was propelled by new Chinese oil companies or by a government "strategic plan."

Zoellick launched the strategic dialogue on a trip to Beijing last month amid rising U.S. concern over China's growing economic and military clout. Washington aims to foster greater cooperation and avoid dangerous miscalculation by examining Sino-American relations in a larger framework.

Zoellick acknowledged "there are questions that are being asked not only in the U.S. but other parts of Asia and Europe about how China will use this growing power."

Zoellick said he told Chinese officials that from a U.S. perspective "it looked like Chinese companies had been unleashed to try to lock up energy resources."

China must choose whether to work with the United States to ameliorate problems posed by these states -- while still protecting Beijing's energy interests -- or whether it "want(ed) to be against us and perhaps others in the international system as well," Zoellick said.

The State Department's former chief China official, Randall Schriver, told Reuters last week he feared the two powers were on a "collision course" over the ties Beijing is forging in its search for energy to feed its growing economy.


Sorry for the large quotes but they were key and necessary phrases.

Reuters

[edit on 6-9-2005 by WestPoint23]




posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Hey what do you expect, Iran has oil and china needs it, so they will become the best of friends kind of like US and the Royal of Saudi.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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I feel there is all kinds of trouble on that horizon. Russia, China and with North Korea selling the beans.

But, one thing I speculate is all three of them cannot dismiss acouple of Gems sitting in each of their backyards too.

Stupidity lies in the threes..

Dallas



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Bad bad China, don't buy that oil!
It's ours, we're going to steal it fair and square.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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This is giant economic puss ball building between the US and China.........

Its going to get uglier and then pop in a conflict that could result in global destruction if we are not careful as nations and as a human species in general......

The original poster is correct............you can see this coming........

First........Iran and Israel..............Iran is determined to have nukes (they need nuke energy sitting on that oil field of their's like Jay Leno needs a bicycle to ride to work cause he's out of cars)........and they recently warned all of the EU that they will continue their program no matter what.....(and if there program is peaceful why are many of their sites burried in bunkers where nothing short of a nuclear bomb can reach them?)......they want to guard or maybe even improve their position in the middle east and will use the destruction of Israel as a barganing chip in thiis process.............Now Israel as sworn to bomb Iran's nuke sites as soon as they come "live". You are going to need tactical nuclear weapons (is that an oxymoron?) to bomb out Iran's buried sites too........Iran has threaten any level of retaliation against Israel on this..............

So Iran and Israel will get into it in the future.............there is not solution between these two...........

But that's the cataylst to the big problem..........

the US has backed Israel since day one and we are eyeing the oil supplies of Iran through a desire to democracize them, we are right next door and are just waiting for an excuse (as Cheny says the next 9/11 type terrorist attack in the US) to go after Iran...................meanwhile China has invested 100's of billions of dollars in Iran's infrastructure to support oil supplies to their fast growing demand.............Now China just recently released a statement saying that any threat to Iran is a threat to their "interests" there.........

Remember when China's nationalized shipping and oil concern tried recently to by Unocal and was shut down by the US government?

Well they are pissed over that and now are letting their investment in Iran be known............

Bottom line................The Iranian situation will end up dragging the US and China into an oil resource war...............odds are this is where escalation into nuclear strikes and WW3 will happen.........

What a mess..............



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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China cares as much I feel about their Chidren as the U.S. cares about their own. I agree with you about the danger -- China wants to survive first aggression later if at all.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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The funny part is, China is making this a confrontation. Instead of BACKING the US, and becoming partners, they are trying to force a show down.

It's sad really. With our massive trade alliance, they could parlay that into a general alliance...To bad they would rather challange US supremecy then join it.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
The funny part is, China is making this a confrontation. Instead of BACKING the US, and becoming partners, they are trying to force a show down.

It's sad really. With our massive trade alliance, they could parlay that into a general alliance...To bad they would rather challange US supremecy then join it.


If you know anything, alliances are made only when necessary. Otherwise, it's every man for themselves.

You think our government wants an alliance with China? Why make an alliance when we can conquer 16% of the world's population?

The world ain't pretty, AMM.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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From an economic stand point of view, China whould be better to side with the U.S. on this issue simply becasue they are our largest trading partner with Tiawan coming in a close second. How many untold Billions of American trade $$ do they have now? Pretty close to a Trillion and that would be put to better use in siding with us. If they seek Irans oil, it must clearly be a move on China's part to slow roll the dice and play Iran for all they can, to get the U.S. to show where its true intensions lie. If China plays Iran, China knows we will defend Isreal to the max and I think that problem would be solved for the time being or at least 'till Iran can lob a nuke or three at Isreal. Meanwhile, Tiawan would be one big blimp on the radar to take care of because we will not let it go peacefully to China, at least that IMHO.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Bush needs to find a way to get China to give up its stance with Tiawan in a peaceful way and find energy supplies elsewhere. If that means surrendering some of the worlds oilfeilds( in Russia) to China it must be done. I understand that China is courting Russia for oil access since the Russians are pretty strapped for hard currency at the moment, that might be a pretty sweet deal for them. Just something thrown out there to debate on.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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To bad they would rather challange US supremecy then join it.


Only a moron wants to join someone elses "supremacy."

If the US insists on being "number one", we can count on the rest of the planet overtly or covertly planning to knock us off our throne. Nobody wants to be ruled by foreigners.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:25 PM
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The Chinese are the ones who have taken this aggressive posture to seize as many oil resources as they can. Now when you do that, you’re only inviting trouble. I really hope they don't keep this up because it will be bad for everyone. And the two countries are on a collision course if this keeps up.

[edit on 7-9-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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They are not "seizing" anything, they're buying it.

How is buying oil on the open market an agressive act?



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Yup, they're buying it all right.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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China and the United States are playing a game in which both try to gain as much influence and resources as possible, without crossing the line and triggering a more direct confrontation. It's almost like a colder cold war. No proxy wars, and not as much overtly publicized economic or resource competition, but intense competition nonetheless.

Time and time again, China and the U.S. find themselves wanting the same things in different ways. Energy, territory, political decision making power, political influence...you name it. One maneuvers in such a way that they succeed in getting it, and the other tries to do the same until they see that the two options before them are 1) let them win this time, or 2) trigger a conflict with dire consequences to both. One or the other chooses option #1, and waits until the next opportunity presents itself. This ranges from things like Taiwanese laws being supported or opposed, trade deals being made or successfully blocked, arms sales resuming or being stopped, etc. They play this game because they know that war will bring an end to their expanding power and wealth. So, while they may indeed be on a collision course, it has been an extremely protracted collision course, and will probably continue to be.

Future examples of this game might include, for example, China finally demanding unequivocal reunification with Taiwan. The U.S. would play up it's treaty obligations, and make ready to defend Taiwan if necessary. Either China or the U.S. would eventually blink. China would come back to the table, or hold off, etc. or the U.S. would find some way to abandon Taiwan while still saving face to the rest of the world. The game goes on.

Eventually however, if not over Taiwan, then over something else, the chess pieces will all be used up, and the bargaining chips will be depleted. If, by that time, a way to bring peace to the world (I have faith in humanity, but I'm not holding my breath) has not been found, it will be a choice of dominance or subservience. Fight or flight. Either one of them will blink - and both are too prideful to do so, in my opinion - or we will have WW3. Or WWL (World War Last), if we're not careful.

This game will likely go on for many decades longer, though. I could be wrong but I don't think Iran would be reason enough to throw the chess board up in anger and start a fist fight. Oil will be irrelevant in the mid to long term, and both China and the U.S. know that in the end they will gain more strategic and economic power by staying in the game as long as they can, even if it means sharing the world's dwindling oil supply and suffering the temporary shock of the energy change-over along with everyone else.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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Yup, they're buying it all right.


What does that mean?

Iran has the oil China wants, China has the cash Iran wants - good old fashioned market capitalism in action.

I don't find it particularly alarming.

It's not like they're say, invading anybody to get access to the oil or anything



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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I was under the impression that China was getting about 25% of it's oil from Iran.

- Any way ya cut it, it looks like it's gonna be interesting....

Think we can take China?
We got Nukes, They got numbers...

Not a fight I want to see, but one that may be inevidable.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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US informs China that 'Invasion is only way' when discussing the ownership of middle eastern oil.

Morons, China buys oil from Iran. Where is the problem there?



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Any thing tha boosts the Iranian economy is an aggressive act for the current US establishment..
If Iran becomes self-sufficient, and responsible sovereign state, then the US will lose credibility on its "take out that terrorist state" dictat..
They put pressure on India and Pakistan too; there was a deal involing a gas pipeline running from Iran to Iran through Pakistan and surprisingly all 3 had agreed to some sort of arrangement..
But the US is busy trying to scuttle that too..



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 09:01 AM
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what I see here is not the intent for China and/or the US to purposely position themselves in conflict with each other...............but to allow situations that can create an unintended conflict...............there is a difference.......

Human history is littered with wars and conflicts based on unintended consequences getting out of hand and leading to misinformation and resulting conflicts............WW1 is a good example of such a situation...

My concern is that that same underlying issues that could spur a nuclear conflict on a threaterwide scale of massive destruction may only be allowed to be experienced once in human history because of its potential to end society as we know of it..................



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
If you know anything, alliances are made only when necessary. Otherwise, it's every man for themselves.


I must dissagree. Alliances are made when it benefits the nation to do so. If it puts the country ahead of where it was without the alliance, then that nation will do it.


You think our government wants an alliance with China? Why make an alliance when we can conquer 16% of the world's population?

The world ain't pretty, AMM.


I agree, the world ain't pretty.

I think our government would welcome an alliance with China if it benefited the US. I think China would welcome an alliance with the US if it's energy imports could be assured.

How it could be worked out I don't know. But I do know that both sides have a LOT to gain if they could work something out.





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