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Why go all spiritual now?

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posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 09:19 PM
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Why is that all of the sudden in what seems like months the whole concept of aliens has taken a spirtual turn to it? No longer is it just little grey men, but now its little grey spirtiual men. I just want to know when this happened?? Or why it happened?? Is it that perhaps in order to convince man of the existance of aliens it HAD to go this route since spiritual based beliefs are such a fundamental part of our existance?




posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Could it be that we are becoming more spiritual, not the Greys? Could this be the next step in our evolution as a species? After all, it seems to me what you are saying has more to do with our perception of the Greys than an actual "change" having to do with them directly?

Consider that the brain is by far the least understood human organ, the "last great anatomical frontier" so to speak... I found a good article on BBC entitled Secrets of the Brain.

In this article, Professor Susan Greenfield, a leading neuroscientist from Oxford University, said, "It is more the connections between the brain cells that is really important, and that gives you the unique ability to adapt and evolve as a person."

It's also worth noting the recent issue of Newweek that addressed the growth of spirituality in the U.S... I found (much to my surprise) that 1/3 of all Americans polled practice meditation daily... And that a majority of those who considered themselves "religious" prioritized "spiritualty" over religious doctrine (it's about time!). It seems that at least in America, there is something of a "spiritual revolution" afoot...

Lastly, regarding Grey culture, I ask everyone this:

A Mayan warrior king, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Shaquile O'Neal are all human beings -- their family members could theoretically interbreed and produce offspring capable of reproduction. However, do any one of those three accurately represent every member of the human race?

If we accept the postulation that the universe, and indeed are very galaxy is in fact teeming with intelligent life (see the article on Space.com -- "ET Visitors: Scientists See High Likelihood"), then is it not possible that there are multiple variations of Greys coexisting across space and/or time? For that matter, how do we know that every ETE that looks like a "Grey" is even of the same biological species?

Given the diverse range of flora and fauna on this little backwater rock combined with the vastness of the universe, and considering both the diversity and (more importantly) the reoccurring similarities of abduction accounts and experiences, the above explanation seems plausible IMHO.


[edit on 3-9-2005 by sdrumrunner]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:32 PM
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Very nice post. You however missed what I was talking almost entirely.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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I'm getting the feeling lately that It's less to do with providing proof as it is maintaining the faith. Faith depending on how deep a group chooses to take it can evolve into a psuedo-religious position of no question. In faith it always helps to have a scorned belief and a nemesis entity that suppresses those beliefs.

Increased hoaxes aren't helping the situation. With verifiable accounts much less frequent and increasing dearth or absence of physical evidence, one needs to maintain faith. It isn't or wouldn't be surpising that a spiritual element came up from that. All we need is the true spiritual relics of UFO'ology and it's set.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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I will probably be ex-communicated for this, but UFO Religions are not new. To one degree or another, most of the folk
who say they are UFO believers match the characteristics of one or more of the UFO Religions. From the Aetherius and
Uranius Societies of the 1950's, through the Heaven's Gate and Raelian movement of the 1970's, Chen Tao and the Ground Crew of the
1990's, and the various off-shoots of the contactee/abduction religions expanding today, I cheerfully recommend a heretical work for
the UFO believers here.

The Encyclopedic Sourcebook of UFO Religions. Edited by James R. Lewis. Prometheus Books, Amherst, NY, 2003. 550 pp. $99, hardcover.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by nullster
I'm getting the feeling lately that It's less to do with providing proof as it is maintaining the faith. Faith depending on how deep a group chooses to take it can evolve into a psuedo-religious position of no question. In faith it always helps to have a scorned belief and a nemesis entity that suppresses those beliefs.

Increased hoaxes aren't helping the situation. With verifiable accounts much less frequent and increasing dearth or absence of physical evidence, one needs to maintain faith. It isn't or wouldn't be surpising that a spiritual element came up from that. All we need is the true spiritual relics of UFO'ology and it's set.



In other words keeping on the straight and norrow? I guess at some point it had to come down to this. Religious beliefs. How much further can it be twisted until it finally breaks though. Little grey men, lizards, or uber blondes from the next galaxy over inviting us to a really great party. Is it only me who thinks that bringing religous beliefs in the context is going to ruin the situation completely?? Hell, we have enough problems with accepting our own faith as it is, with out killing each other over religous ideaology. What happens when you introduce aliens into the fold with the tagline that they believe christ died on the cross or muhamed walked with alha? I don't know...to me it makes no sense. We have to first get past the fact that its not just us in the universe before start tackling religious and faith based issues.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by sdrumrunner
Could it be that we are becoming more spiritual, not the Greys? Could this be the next step in our eveolution as a species? After all, it seems to me what you are saying has more to do with our perception of the Greys than an actual "change" having to do with them directly?

Consider that the brain is by far the least understood human organ, the "last great anatomical frontier" so to speak... I found a good article on BBC entitled Secrets of the Brain.

In this article, Professor Susan Greenfield, a leading neuroscientist from Oxford University, said, "It is more the connections between the brain cells that is really important, and that gives you the unique ability to adapt and evolve as a person."

It's also worth noting the recent issue of Newweek that addressed the growth of spirituality in the U.S... I found (much to my surprise) that 1/3 of all Americans polled practice meditation daily... And that a majority of those who considered themselves "religious" prioritized "spiritualty" over religious doctrine (it's about time!). It seems that at least in America, there is something of a "spiritual revolution" afoot...

Lastly, regarding Grey culture, I ask everyone this:

A Mayan warrior king, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Shaquile O'Neal are all human beings -- their family members could theoretically interbreed and produce offspring capable of reproduction. However, do any one of those three accurately represent every member of the human race?

If we accept the postulation that the universe, and indeed are very galaxy is in fact teeming with intelligent life (see the article on Space.com -- "ET Visitors: Scientists See High Likelihood"), then is it not possible that there are multiple variations of Greys coexisting across space and/or time? For that matter, how do we know that every ETE that looks like a "Grey" is even of the same biological species?

Given the diverse range of flora and fauna on this little backwater rock combined with the vastness of the universe, and considering both the diversity and (more importantly) the reoccurring similarities of abduction accounts and experiences, the above explanation seems plausible IMHO.


[edit on 3-9-2005 by sdrumrunner]


Great post. Great points. Great links! I often go months without doing this once, but you deserve it in my book...

You have voted sdrumrunner for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

The space.com article was especially interesting. I think its long past-due for the science community to investigate at least a fraction of the public's UFO/Alien/Abduction/etc. claims. If this had been done only a decade ago, I can't begin to imagine where we would be today. We very well could have discovered countless other alien civilizations, made contact, etc.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13Great post. Great points. Great links! I often go months without doing this once, but you deserve it in my book...

You have voted sdrumrunner for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

The space.com article was especially interesting. I think its long past-due for the science community to investigate at least a fraction of the public's UFO/Alien/Abduction/etc. claims. If this had been done only a decade ago, I can't begin to imagine where we would be today. We very well could have discovered countless other alien civilizations, made contact, etc.


Please accept my deepest gratitude for the gracious compliment.


Similarly, thank you Whompa1, and also please accept my apologies for completely missing the point of the original post.
If I understand your question correction corectly, is it possible, given our intrinsic spiritual nature, that it is only natural to assign a spiritual quotient of some sort to the possible existence of extraterrestrial life? While I am by no means a religious man by nature, the thought of possibly receiving insight from a species billions of years older than we about such things as what exactly God is does in fact move me... spiritually.
The thought kind of gives me an "intellectual chub," if you will...



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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Similarly, thank you Whompa1, and also please accept my apologies for completely missing the point of the original post.
If I understand your question correction corectly, is it possible, given our intrinsic spiritual nature, that it is only natural to assign a spiritual quotient of some sort to the possible existence of extraterrestrial life? While I am by no means a religious man by nature, the thought of possibly receiving insight from a species billions of years older than we about such things as what exactly God is does in fact move me... spiritually.
The thought kind of gives me an "intellectual chub," if you will...


Not a problem. Its a tough question to crack really. I would'nt mind hearing about an aliens beliefs just like I don't have a problem listening to another person's belief. Suppose all reports concerning our little grey buddies are correct. They show no understanding of human morals,sympathy or even concern. How then are we to intterrupt their meaning of god? Does it mean everything we ever believed is BS. And really how realistic is it to believe they know anymore then we do about the workings of god? Would you still have a chub in regards to their knowledge?



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by nightwing
I will probably be ex-communicated for this, but UFO Religions are not new. To one degree or another, most of the folk
who say they are UFO believers match the characteristics of one or more of the UFO Religions. From the Aetherius and
Uranius Societies of the 1950's, through the Heaven's Gate and Raelian movement of the 1970's, Chen Tao and the Ground Crew of the
1990's, and the various off-shoots of the contactee/abduction religions expanding today, I cheerfully recommend a heretical work for
the UFO believers here.

The Encyclopedic Sourcebook of UFO Religions. Edited by James R. Lewis. Prometheus Books, Amherst, NY, 2003. 550 pp. $99, hardcover.


I know ufo's have been linked to religous ideology since the time of the bible in one form or another. I think going as far as saying anyone who believes in ufos could be a case study in these new age bull# ufo religions is going a little far. I believe in UFO's but I'm not gonna dawn a purple robe and white nikes and drink some kool-aid while I wait for the mother ship.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Whompa1 - nightwing's mention of a heretical retreat would do wonders to reverse your concerns and or future interests for the community.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by nullster
Whompa1 - nightwing's mention of a heretical retreat would do wonders to reverse your concerns and or future interests for the community.


Could you explain that a little more please?



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Whompa1Suppose all reports concerning our little grey buddies are correct. They show no understanding of human morals,sympathy or even concern. How then are we to intterrupt their meaning of god? Does it mean everything we ever believed is BS. And really how realistic is it to believe they know anymore then we do about the workings of god? Would you still have a chub in regards to their knowledge?


I revert back to the latter part of my first post, which I believe does address the questions you put forth:

Is it not possible that there are multiple variations of Greys coexisting across space and/or time? For that matter, how do we know that every ETE that looks like a "Grey" is even of the same biological species? If all reports of interactions with Greys are correct, then I would have to conlcude there are in fact multiple variants and/or species of Greys with whom mankind has been interacting.

And let's not confuse a "lack of understanding" or ability to relate to human emotions or morals with apathy.

Again, I revert back to the postulation that there may very well be a wide wange of diversity among the Greys... Remember: Mayan warrior king, Mozart, Big Deisel... three very diverse examples of humanity, yet none representative of the entirety of our species. And there are only 6,000,000,000 of us.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:09 AM
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I personally do not feel as though a heightened sense of spiritual awareness represents a new stage in human evolution. When we look back at the various stages through which the human species has evolved, the one thing that stands out is the fact that every change, whilst heralding new types of awareness and new mental capabilities, has been essentially a physical change, and a radical one at that. Compare, for example, the physical characteristics of Homo erectus with that of modern humans, Homo sapien sapien. The physical changes are the most immediately noticeable difference between the two species of humans. Increased mental capability in present-day humans is largely a result of these physical changes. For example, as neural pathways become more numerous and develop increasingly complex connections and pathways, abstract thought begins to develop, as well as an increased capacity for reason and problem-solving.

Evidence from the archaeological record does seem to indicate that as humanity evolves, so to does spirituality. We see no evidence of religious or spiritual practice amongst very early incarnations of the human species such as Homo habilis or the aforementioned Homo erectus. Homo neanderthalensis, however, having evolved with a brain of significant complexity and larger in size than our own, did appear to have at least a rudimentary understanding of spirituality and religion. This is evidenced by the fact that Neanderthals buried their dead and appear to have incorporated minor rituals into the burial practice. And, of course, the modern form of human, Homo sapiens, has developed a complex and intricate variety of religions and spiritual beliefs and practices.

These developments in spirituality, however, always appear in conjunction with significant physical changes from one branch of humanity to the next. This is very likely due to the increasing evolution of the human brain and the increased capacity for abstract thinking that results. The fact that this recent wave of spirituality has not accompanied a corresponding physical change suggests that it is unlikely we are witnessing "the next step in our evolution as a species".

The truth is probably closer to a combination of the various reasons people have already put forward. A significant lack of tangible evidence regarding the existence of alien life has, I am sure, led to an increased focus on the less tangible possibilities of alien life in some cases. For people who desperately want to believe in aliens, a lack of physical proof might conceivably prompt them to explore aliens as non-physical, spiritual beings. Such an approach is advantageous since it necessarily denotes that no tangible evidence can possibly be supplied, so that any story is inherently unverifiable. Your story cannot be proven to be false if nobody can deny it through sheer lack of proof. It also may allow the 'contactee' to construct an image of superiority, given that these highly evolved, spiritual aliens have chosen them to act as ambassador or spokesperson.

This shift towards a spiritual view of alien life might also be a reaction to an increasingly scientific means of looking for and comprehending the possibility of extraterrestrial life. When most people think of aliens, they think of small, highly intelligent creatures with advanced technology.
The greys in particular are often portrayed as cold, methodical, emotionless beings. Perhaps the emerging spiritual aspect of aliens is an attempt to counter-balance this overtly scientific view of aliens as creatures with a rich level of material development, but an unknown or lacking spiritual development.

Finally, the spiritual view of aliens may be a reaction to a world in which many people feel increasingly lost or worried about the future. Terrorism, natural disaster and uncertainty may all prompt an individual or a group to seek reassurance that the future is going to work out all right. It is comforting to think that a group of highly spiritual, peaceful beings are watching over you and are ready and willing to save you from your own follies. A spiritual interpretation of aliens may be a means of reassuring oneself that you are not helpless, or that the future is not as bleak as it may appear. It suggests that, even if humanity is primitive and warlike, there exists beings who are beyond such petty concepts and who may wish to help us achieve the same level of understanding.

I find it interesting that the recent development of viewing aliens as spiritual beings seems to correspond with an increased awareness of alternate forms of spirituality amongst Western nations. It would be interesting, though difficult, to examine the perception of aliens across different cultures. This would determine whether the phenomenon was a genuine one or whether, as I believe, it is intimately tied to the re-emergence of New Age and alternate forms of spirituality amongst developed Western nations.

In conclusion, I personally do not accept the view of aliens as spiritual beings. Whilst I do not doubt that aliens, if they exist, possess some form of spiritual awareness, I must reject those stories in which people experience regular contact with aliens through spiritual practices. It seems more likely to me that such encounters are a combination of any number of beliefs or developments. They may be a reaction to a lack of tangible evidence regarding the physicality of alien life; they may have developed to counter the scientific view of aliens; they may be an outgrowth of the popularity of alternate spiritual practices in Western nations or they may be a means of gaining some form of control over a world in which you feel increasingly helpless.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Jeremiah25, brilliant post!



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Originally posted by Whompa1Suppose all reports concerning our little grey buddies are correct. They show no understanding of human morals,sympathy or even concern. How then are we to intterrupt their meaning of god? Does it mean everything we ever believed is BS. And really how realistic is it to believe they know anymore then we do about the workings of god? Would you still have a chub in regards to their knowledge?


I revert back to the latter part of my first post, which I believe does address the questions you put forth:

Is it not possible that there are multiple variations of Greys coexisting across space and/or time? For that matter, how do we know that every ETE that looks like a "Grey" is even of the same biological species? If all reports of interactions with Greys are correct, then I would have to conlcude there are in fact multiple variants and/or species of Greys with whom mankind has been interacting.

And let's not confuse a "lack of understanding" or ability to relate to human emotions or morals with apathy.

Again, I revert back to the postulation that there may very well be a wide wange of diversity among the Greys... Remember: Mayan warrior king, Mozart, Big Deisel... three very diverse examples of humanity, yet none representative of the entirety of our species. And there are only 6,000,000,000 of us.


I would imagine that if there are truly "greys" then there probaly variations of the species same with humans, whilst we share the same basic physical makeup we are intrinsically different on every level. Like a snowflake if you will.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Whompa1 Could you explain that a little more please?

I was originaly going to post this.
---
Whompa1 - nightwing's mention of a heretical retreat would do wonders to reverse your concerns for the community. I am personaly a skeptic and have grown considerably more so in the past few years. I was fascinated by UFO's from an early age in the 1970's, but after several years of watching groups veer off into religious sects or zealous foundations, I really backed off. I could see the whole UFO/alien abduction idea serving a different need or purpose for people. The religious oppresion and persecution I mentioned earlier comes in the form of government and military death threats to witnesses. Of course these valient witnesses sell their stories abd go public but are never martyred for their convictions.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Most people on organized Earth are still missing the Universal, fundamental point that religion and spirituality are not the same thing.

All beings are spiritual beings. Spirit IS the nature of life itself, all life. Spiritual means natural. Telepathy is a spiritual ability and so is traveling out of body, moving objects by thought, and seeing events before they happen. That is not religion- it's nature. Make no mistake, there is no such thing as magic, and there IS a physical science to spiritual ability that we just have not discovered yet. In order to realize and define the visitation of alien life, we have to incorporate a basic understanding of spiritual nature.

All known races of people in all the known Universes believe in the one same God. But man on Earth is still making up all our own concepts about everything natural. Our organized religions are just concepts about whatever we perceive or declare God to be, and what we are forced into conformity to believe by our own kind.

God is what we still have left after we shake off all the silly beliefs we have made up to explain ALL of the scary things we glimpse but can't understand, the very place from where all the demons were born. God is still real after we shake off all the capitalistic concepts created by our religious leaders to manipulate our thinking to believe we have to buy us some God by way of their toll road to salvation, OR ELSE!

Generally speaking, whatever humans can do by technology, the advanced races can do better, because naturally they have had longer to evolve in mental capacity and intelligence, and to study and experience and create than we have had yet, and because they share knowledge with each other. Equally, whatever we humans can do yet by nature, the advanced races have achieved that beyond us too.

On a race's home world, there is no need to protect their bodies from their natural atmosphere. But when the alien people go to any other race's world, there are distinct physiological reasons for using natural abilities to meet with the people there. When any of them come here, they have to also hide from us because of the way we react to them. When they meet with us and each other here, it is by spirit because they have to and because they can. We humans do that too, but we do not accept it simply for what it is yet, if we even become physically aware that we are doing it.

Jeremiah, I am in regular contact with alien people through spiritual nature. I also meet with them physically, but even when I see them physically with my eyes, communication between us is usually mind to mind by telepathy. That is the spiritual nature of contact between all races of life. My spiritual abilities and awareness are advanced for most humans, but I am not doing anything that most humans can't do to some degree.

Humans on Earth are very young. We do not recognize the spiritual nature of life yet, not even our own. When we see further advanced races of people demonstrating it to us in action, many humans resort to all they only know-- their primitive reactions of fear, imagination, denial and dismissal. And they do this vehemently with the help and encouragement of their peers, family and friends, and the whole UFO field.






[edit on 9/4/2005 by EarthSister]



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Whompa1
Why is that all of the sudden in what seems like months the whole concept of aliens has taken a spirtual turn to it? No longer is it just little grey men, but now its little grey spirtiual men. I just want to know when this happened??


It happened because christians were not prepared to give an answer to aliens. We had to search and research and study and pay attention to this. We know God will give the answer to aliens and their identity. So after many christians have done our homework God has revealed what these "aliens" are. They are the demonic forces associated with satan who are out to deceive and destroy as much of mankind as possible. This truth is now known and being spread for all to hear about.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Man, I hope you're wearing fire retardent knickers.

Just further proof that the faithful are too fractured in their beliefs to bring about a cohesive following. Which is probably a good thing.



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