Shut Up and Listen.....

Our enemies might not have a monoply one things, but we Americans have monopolies on EVERYTHING. What Bush said about invading Iraq that it was a just cause. Mr. Bush has blood on his hands when he says that because this is an un-just war against a somewhat soverign nation. We can't forget how Bush linked Iraq to 9-11 by lies. He did this because he knew that the Saudis and his administration were behind the attacks.

Originally posted by EvilSockPuppet
Then again, maybe America needs another 9/11 .. Yet another perhaps even more dramatic wake up call.

We should stay the course.. And not be lead by those who will be critical because of pure political motives.

So you think we need even more people killed by a massive terrorist attack, so that we can fight the terrorists and ensure they'll stop attacking us?

And that doesn't strike you as an odd bit of logic?

[edit on 26-8-2005 by bsbray11]

OK, maybe the words “shut up” were a bit to abrasive, However it is what it is, can’t change it now.. Even if I wanted to.

For the record, I am for the most part, left in my way of thinking.. Meaning “liberal scum” to some of you... Yet I voice my opinion on this war that is contrary to most of those who will use politics and war to advance their agendas.

I could care less what anyone thinks of me, nor do I care what your perceptions are, I am only one person voicing an opinion here, one voice among thousands, just another face in the crowd.

It is possible to support this war, no matter what your agenda is.. No matter who is our elected leader, no matter what the daily political propaganda and general bull# tells you. I am living proof.

I have a family member serving in Iraq, does this make me biased? .. Maybe... however I can tell you this war, this fight is more important than the news bite of the day, or the spin you are all too willing to fall for. There will soon come another day, another crisis.. And when that time comes which side will YOU be on? .. Do you really even give a damn?

I think all most of you want to do here is TALK, and paste links to more media BS!

Then again you could still prove me wrong.


ESP

Looks like most of you are willing to comply, Why did I know this?

I started this thread knowing in advance what the reaction would be, I have never in my life seen so many empty sponges ready to soak up the media hype and spin coming at them.

You are still free, aren’t you?

Could it be wrong to be open to a way of thinking that may not follow the “party” line you are so careful to follow?

Freedom? .. Man have you all been brainwashed or what?

I should have known better.. But then again maybe I did!


ESP!

I agree with ESP. We are in it deep over there, and we need to finish the job. There would be nothing gained by pulling out now.

Originally posted by simtek 22
I agree with ESP. We are in it deep over there, and we need to finish the job. There would be nothing gained by pulling out now.

Haven't you read any of the post? The main thing that would be gained by pulling out now is that our young people would be able to come home and hug their kids, make love to their husbands or wives, take grandpa to the ball game, see their kids graduate, maybe go back to school, start a business and last but not least Live to fight a war that Really matters.

Let the Iraqi people determine their own fate in their own way. We don't need to get involved in another civil war like "nam". You see I was Drafted during the "Viet Nam era" so it's not like I'm buying the party line as ESP seems to think. I'm peferctly capable of thinking for myself especially since I have some experience with the subject at hand.


ESP
I have been listening; But neither you nor anybody else can make me shut up. Yeah, it was a bit abrasive and it is what it is and most of the time I really respect your perspective, humor and sarcasm. Peace!!

[edit on 27-8-2005 by whaaa]

Perhaps you are just too intelligent for this board, Puppet. I don't see what you stand to gain from attempting to enlighten such a vast membership with your wisdom. But then way above human entities such as yourself probably grace us with your presence purely out of love and charity. I know I stand to gain untold levels of perception and awareness through your teachings, but I fear that it would be too much for my little sponge to contain.

Regardless, I would like to propose that ATS invite you to participate in an official guest interview so that we may learn and grow through your teachings, in order to further the human species and expand the ever diminishing cognisance that is the ATS community.

Originally posted by whaaa
Haven't you read any of the post? The main thing that would be gained by pulling out now is that our young people would be able to come home and hug their kids, make love to their husbands or wives, take grandpa to the ball game, see their kids graduate, maybe go back to school, start a business and last but not least Live to fight a war that Really matters.

OK, lets roll over, let Ol' Saddam take back the country, and fight Al-Quadea in the streets of the US. Lets bring back the rape rooms and the taliban. Is this what you want! It'll be real hard to watch the kids graduate when the bombs start going off in our schools.

Hello...if this war against terrorism does not matter, what type of war do you want us to fight?

The only thing gained by pulling out now would be giving the terrorist more reason to attack us here at home. They are not real peace loving folks, they want you and me dead because we don't believe in their perverted religion.

I don't like seeing our troops getting killed either, but I truly believe, if we wern't over there fighting right now, we'd be facing them in our own backyards.

Originally posted by simtek 22
OK, lets roll over, let Ol' Saddam take back the country, and fight Al-Quadea in the streets of the US. Lets bring back the rape rooms and the taliban.

Don't confuse Iraq with Afghanistan. The Taliban had no control over Iraq, and I'd guess that most Anti-War-In-Iraq people would acknowledge that the military action in Afghanistan was infinitely more justified. The Taliban made Saddam Hussein look like Little Bo Peep.

The only thing gained by pulling out now would be giving the terrorist more reason to attack us here at home. They are not real peace loving folks, they want you and me dead because we don't believe in their perverted religion.

I'm thinking "they" want "us" dead partly because we have this really annoying habit of telling certain Islamic nations what to do and when to do it. That's not even touching on the whole "US presence in the Middle-East" issue, which is another huge bundle of tinder for their fire. "Perverted religion"?

Look beyond the hyperbole and see the reasons why certain groups might have a legitimate beef with the Western allies (and if it's not screamingly obvious, this is in no way supporting or condoning terrorism, ok? It's simply trying to point out a possible reason for "their" point of view).

I don't like seeing our troops getting killed either, but I truly believe, if we wern't over there fighting right now, we'd be facing them in our own backyards.

Except...the suicide attacks in Iraq were very, very few in number before the coalition actually went in there. It's not illogical to conclude that these suicide bombers are responding to what they perceive is an illegal invasion and occupation. In other words - if we weren't there, perhaps they wouldn't be acting up quite so much.

Prior to the military action in Iraq, how many suicide bombers and/or other terrorists were Iraqi?

Edited for spelling. hmph.

[edit on 28-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Pulling out of a Iraq would be a terrible Idea, it would weaken the abillities of current even if trained Iraqi forces and open a path with very few obsticles for a potential mad man to regain power. There will from now on always be a coalition presence. As there still is in Germany today, and has been for 60years now.

Originally posted by whaaa
I don't care about the Iraqi people. If they didn't like being ruled by a tyrant they could have revolted just like our forefathers did or any other country that says ENOUGH!

Don't mean to get off topic but WO! Hardly true at all I believe the reason was mostly due to high taxation and relgious persecution, It wasn't as if it was escaping from a mass-murdering tyrant. The American colonists were segregated from the rest of the population. Cultural boredom settled in and caused the uprise of new culture which is completly natural, if the internet and tele communications had existed at the time you could argue there never would of been a United States. If you and some buddies were sent to a distant planet (livable), and say your leaders start taxing the crap outta you, and telling you, NO you cannot hold those beliefs. You may think.. hey why not start our own planet...!! But the sad thing is, most countries if not all still have the high taxation and you could argue the religious persecution has moved to a form of persecution over sexual preference.

Vorta


[edit on 28-8-2005 by Vorta]

Pulling out of Iraq now would send the evil ones the message they want to hear or see: The Americans are scared because of the ramdom number of war protesters raising hell. They want us to retreat and that would be the worst thing in the world we could allow to happen. That would mean every death of an American or one of our colitation members would have been all for not. All of these folks that are out there protesting the war should be banished from our country becasue they evidently don't like it so send them to the sand box. If there is one thing I can't stand is someone standing there and bitchin and moaning about this or that. They seem to forget the fact that if we followed their advise, we would either be wearing dirty nightshirts and praying to Mecca 5x a day, or we would be branded with the German Swatiska and put in a nice and comfortable concentration camp. The Sheean lady who is down in Texas is spreading her poison and spewing her true feelings about our country. I think she should just leave it. I feel for the death of her son. He was not forced to join...he just thought it was and is the right thing to do. Her son died so his mother could live in freedom and peace. I kind of think she is ungrateful as hell and should be thrown in a rubber room where she belongs. If my boys were to die in this war, the last thing in the world I would be doing is to dishonor their deaths such as this female is doing. Funny thing about it is that she is being used as the bait by the ultra left to do their bidding and she can't see it until someone takes the blinders off of her. Little does she know that the war effort in Vietnam was undercut by people doing just what she is. I say if she thinks America is this bad, by all means someone buy her a ticket to N.Korea

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
I kind of think she is ungrateful as hell and should be thrown in a rubber room where she belongs. If my boys were to die in this war, the last thing in the world I would be doing is to dishonor their deaths such as this female is doing. Funny thing about it is that she is being used as the bait by the ultra left to do their bidding and she can't see it until someone takes the blinders off of her. Little does she know that the war effort in Vietnam was undercut by people doing just what she is. I say if she thinks America is this bad, by all means someone buy her a ticket to N.Korea

This is the kind of divisive bull# that is tearing this great nation apart.

A grieving mother, has an opinion.. And is politicized by both sides.

If you think this thread was about her, you are more than wrong. And you do not serve yourself or your political cause well by saying the # you have above.

It is the politics of this war that is the problem it seems. Most Americans seem less concerned about winning the war on terrorism, and more concerned about doing whatever they can to make their political party look good, no matter what it takes.

This thread was meant to be about pulling out of Iraq. The reasons why we should or should not.

I don’t give a damn about the politics.



ESP




[edit on 29-8-2005 by EvilSockPuppet]

Seems like damned if you do and damned if you don't. But leaving Iraq for Qatar's new U.S. base still has the U.S. in the region for Oil Export protection.

Dallas

The resistance to the war is rising. Even apathic and mis-informed, there are signs that the Americans are beginning to understand who pays and who profits from this war.

Until now, the main theme of the resistance has been: "our government is killing our children".

I wonder if the next step will be: "our government is killing their children".

But even if they are not able to make this huge intellectual step, at least they can stop the war for selfish reasons.

Look I can completely understand people being against the invasion of Iraq. But that's over and done with, and has been so for quite some time. What I don't understand is the people who think that if we pack up and leave tomorrow, all the terrorists will just go home and never try and harm us again. What a joke.

If we leave now, without the current Iraqi government being able to defend itself from the terrorists within and the hostile nations in its neighborhood, then we are creating conditions for a scenareo that's far worse than anything we've seen so far. If you think the regime in Tehran is radical, wait until you see what controls Iraq if we leave now.

We're making progress in a lot of areas that are seldom covered on the news. Sure, things aren't perfect. But I think the problem we are having with a lack of support for this war has more to do with America's short attention span and lack of patience than it does with what's going on on the ground in Iraq right now. We are currently doing everything possible to train and equip an Iraqi Army that is actually capable of securing the nation once we leave. This is not something that can be accomplished overnight. Hell, creating a viable defense force in Iraq is not something that can happen in even a year.

If memory serves me correct, we've barely been in Iraq for 3 years. In that time, we have toppled one of the world's worst dictators and his regime. We've established a sovereign government which was elected by a majority of the Iraqi people. That government is currently working on a constitution, which regardless of its difficulty is something that would have been unheard of a decade ago.

Something had to have been done about Saddam. The sanctions weren't going to be in place much longer. The man had a craving for WMD and for the murder of his own people. The free world needed to act. And those with a backbone did act, after 16+ UN resolutions were defied and coalition jets were fired on daily by Saddam's henchmen.

I'm glad we're there. But I think we're giving certain people what they want, including Osama bin Laden, who forcasted that the American people have no tolerance for any amount of casualties. Although it pains me to see coalition troops lose their lives, it is sadly a part of war. We cannot pack up and run. Because the people who end up taking over Iraq could end up being a lot worse than Saddam when it comes to supporting and financing terrorism against the US and its allies. I just think its naive to think that if we leave everything will get better. That's just not the case.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Look I can completely understand people being against the invasion of Iraq. But that's over and don........

You have voted Rasputin13 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I couldn't of said it better myself. Thats exactly how I see it and I just don't know why other people can't see that if we leave, its like placing mat down that ses something along the lines of "Welcome radical extremists." Good post Rasputin.

Vorta

and the sooner the better, but not one second before we can say "Job Done"!!!

Which job would that have been then ?

Finding WMD's ?

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Something had to have been done about Saddam. The sanctions weren't going to be in place much longer. The man had a craving for WMD and for the murder of his own people. The free world needed to act. And those with a backbone did act, after 16+ UN resolutions were defied and coalition jets were fired on daily by Saddam's henchmen.

Cowards are usually the first to accuse others of cowardice.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Look I can completely understand people being against the invasion of Iraq. But that's over and done with, ...

Its not over and done with. In fact, the American people (the 99.99%) have just begun to understand what the invasion of Iraq is. From this point on, there is a lot they can do to take charge of the situation, democratically.