Freemasonry and the Tarot

Originally posted by Majestic12
Now correct me if I am wrong, but the pracitces of Freemasons are rather arcane? So it would really be of no surprise if they were to practice such an old form of divination.

Yes but then comes the next question. Givent the decoding of the tarot shown on page 1 of this thread by me and also the thread entitled My Tarot Theory in skunkworks shows a definite difference in attributes, and the ones decoded by me, are pretty plain and simple to see the truth in, would that therefore mean the masons/rosicrucians/templars/oto/a.a/golden dawn .. are all using a wrong or incorrect attributes that has been passed down thru the centuries. Or does it mean the plebs and lower ranks of these secret societies are fed one version and only the enlightened highers ups get to see the decoded attributes. Given that over the years the tarot has been poo pooed as a load of hogwash by the scientific community because of no scientific base to it and given that the decoded versions certainly shows a pure scientific base of numbers that the scientific community could grasp and say hey this makes complete sense and works, would that be the reason that it is is so hidden and mysterious.

Wouldn't it be funny if the little lambskinned and schoolies geometry setted ones were going on their merry way thinking they are enlightened by their keys when they don't hold the tuth in their hands after all?

Imagine that, if the decoded version turns out to be something scientific and pure, then it would naturally follow that every person that has joined any secret society throughout time, has been fooled into believing a falsehead as truth.


And divination is the lower form of the tarot, the tarot as a book of knowledge contains more, oh so much more than "can you read my cards"

Originally posted by Majestic12
Now correct me if I am wrong, but the pracitces of Freemasons are rather arcane? So it would really be of no surprise if they were to practice such an old form of divination.

Several eminent Masons have taken interest in Tarot, but for its symbolism, instead of divination. It is generally argued that divinatory practices using Tarot are of more modern invention, being derived from Gypsy fortune telling games, while the practice of Tarot in its purity involves not divination or fortune-telling, but instead concerns meditational study of Tarot symbols.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Majestic12
Now correct me if I am wrong, but the pracitces of Freemasons are rather arcane? So it would really be of no surprise if they were to practice such an old form of divination.

Several eminent Masons have taken interest in Tarot, but for its symbolism, instead of divination. It is generally argued that divinatory practices using Tarot are of more modern invention, being derived from Gypsy fortune telling games, while the practice of Tarot in its purity involves not divination or fortune-telling, but instead concerns meditational study of Tarot symbols.

But how do the symbols presented in these occultic cards actually pertain to Freemasonry?

Originally posted by Majestic12

But how do the symbols presented in these occultic cards actually pertain to Freemasonry?

Firstly the cards are really more than occult. They tell the story of life, they tell the story of creation. They can and are used symbolically and ritualistically for these purposes.

Each card is attributed to elements, planets, numbers and more. as shown below by the decoded version. taken from www.rejectz.com... . That link shows the old attributes that most secret societies use plus the new ones decoded.



As you can see each card has attributes. The above chart is the major arcana of 22 cards = life. Life death regeneration, solid liquid gas, the effect each element has on the other, the effect the stars and planets have upon us and upon life. This is used ritualistically. These attributes show the story of our universe. They show for example the effects of fire upon earth, water and air. The attributes show correlations betwen each card, each turn of the wheel, each aspect of life, the universe and everything in it.

These are used by the secret societies to achieve enlightenment, to achieve knowledge and understanding and control of the elements by man.

ESSENTIAL SECRETS.--The essential secrets of Masonry consist of nothing more than the signs, grips, pass-words, and tokens, essential to the preservation of the society from the inroads of impostors; together with certain symbolical emblems, the technical terms appertaining to which served as a sort of universal language, by which the members of the fraternity could distinguish -each other, in all places and countries where Lodges were instituted.--Stone.

www.knight-lomas.com...
In Masonic tradition King Solomon’s workmen uncovered a subterranian vault of a long forgotten ruin of a temple originally built by Enoch on the same site that the new temple of the Jews was to be errected 3,000 years ago. Inside this vault was the secrets of science recorded from before the Flood, when such knowledge had become lost to the general world. We are also told that the delta was seen on a mountain and it shows the rays of the sun.
The latitude of the Jerusalem Temple is very interesting. If one places a sighting rod or deacon’s wand in the ground and mark the shadow of the first golden rays of the rising sun on the summer solstice (St. John’s day in Freemasonry) and do the same on the winter solstice (the other St. John’s day in Freemasonry) it forms a perfect equilateral triangle. This must have been seen as an important quality in ancient times by sun worshipers. And we must remember that the Qumran Community bowed their heads to the rising sun in the Temple until it was made punishable by death by the new Jewish priesthood.

Symbolism, shapes, geomery, numbers, energy, male and female..... the buildings blocks of the universe

thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...
The circle with a point in the middle is an important freemason and illuminati symbol representing fertility. The point symbolizes the male principle impregnating the female, symbolized by the circle.

Masonic Ritual
E,S and W

Sun, Moon and Master

I just used the quotes above to show that masonry is covered in ritual and symbolism. The problem I feel personally with masonry is it is the last bastion of male dominance. They do not allow women entry to their lodges, they do not allow women to share the knowledge. instead they created a lesser order of the eastern star but do not enlighten them with the same secrets. masons seem to think that only men can be the bearers of the secret knowledge. The positive force as such male.. problem is there is also the female force to be reckoned with.

In this day and age of the 21st century women share the world stage with men, women have shown they have as much rights as men and shown they have the rights to the same knowledge as men. As far as esoteria is concernd women have as much right as men, as far as the world is concerned women have as much right to power as men. Basically you cant have the positive force without the negative force. its what makes our universe turn as you can see by the below horridly basic hand scratching of how our solar system works.



But *sigh.. because it is different, no matter how right it was, because it was created by a woman to include all, it will be ignored, passed over and more in the effort to keep the status quo as is.



All this is found within the cards. The tarot, the book of knowledge.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by Majestic12
But how do the symbols presented in these occultic cards actually pertain to Freemasonry?

The Tarot is basically a picture book on the Qabalah. Qabalah describes everything in the universe, how it works, etc.. so you can put pretty much everything into qabalistic terms.

Originally posted by Mayet
But *sigh.. because it is different, no matter how right it was, because it was created by a woman to include all, it will be ignored, passed over and more in the effort to keep the status quo as is.

Like I said before, you screwed up the qabalistic meanings to the cards. So people who use it for that will find no value in your system. If you fixed that it would get looked into by more people. Not to mention you started off with Crowley's system... that will get you black balled right there from most occultists. It has nothing to do with your sex.

Nothing has been screwed up. If anything the purity is easier to understand. It builds and builds and grows and grows in pure numbers and shapes.

Its ignored I think simply because it may just be true. Its pure, its simple and obvious in the simple purity.

On another angle,all what you see may be simple today and easy to understand, the decoding is pure physics. The magnetics of our solar system in the diagram above is pure magnetic fields and physics. All that may be looked at by a physics professr and lightly passed because that is how it is.

The negative positive forces and how they react on each other. The male female attributes of our planet. The planet involved 1,2,3,4, do not order positive negative positive negative, if that was the case the magnetic field would collapse on itself. Instead we have the system as a whole. No doubt there though, mercury and mars 1&4 have always been male positive. Venus and Earth 2&3 have always been female negative. Legends stories atributes symbolism... Its the next ones out where the changes were made...

But where all this has bearing and meaning is here.............. I decoded this system from attributes assigned to a deck of cards passed down through the centuries, mainly through the secret societies the templars, the masons, rosicrucians, golden dawn and more. Which, in simple language and grasp means.... that this was known all those centuries ago.

When was pluto and neptune discovered by the way? H

How did people up to two thousand years ago "know" and hide in a book of knowledge, the magnetic fields and how our solar system and us behave? Scientists as late as 1992 were still trying to grasp the magnetic fields of our planet. Yet here I find pure phsyics in an occult book of knowledge passed down through time that at one stage of being I would be burnt at the stake for possessing?

How is this so. How did the secret societies hold in their hands the key to he universe for centuries when we as mankind are only just starting to grasp these concepts now?

Five moves, completed by clues left behind by members of secret societes.... those five moves reveal pure mathematics and pure physics... that MUST of been known centries and centuries ago... why was it hidden.. who told us.....

So yes Cug people can dismiss it given it doesn't fit in with what the have been taught of kabbalah. If I had learned by rote the atrributes as given and the kabalah as written I would never have discovered this pure physics hidden within. . Give it to a physics professor see if it works and then answer me that question. How did they know so long ago that this is how it is? There were seven planets of the ancients, that did not include uranus, neptune and pluto.. Yet the hidden system works on the solar system as we know it now. and the magnetic field work on that of what we just discovered in science in the last 20 or so years.

How old is the tarot? How long have the masons been one of the keepers of this tarot? How long have masons ritualistically and symbolically used the tarot? Symbolism of male and female... translates to simple North South, positive negative. And what I have shown, what I have decoded is that they knew it for centuries... they lied, they kept it hidden.. or they had the keys but had trully lost the knowledge. I am more of the idea they knew and lied, that is how for so long they have been able to control everything, they knew the secrets of the physics, or or more to the point, they knew the physics... all along...


[edit on 20-12-2005 by Mayet]

But how do the symbols presented in these occultic cards actually pertain to Freemasonry?

I would say that they do not directly pertain to Freemasonry, although esoteric Freemasonry and Tarot appear to have been derived from a common source, i.e., the Kabalah.

Originally posted by Mayet
Nothing has been screwed up. If anything the purity is easier to understand. It builds and builds and grows and grows in pure numbers and shapes.

Screwed up was probably a poor choice of words on my part, but the meanings of the cards HAVE to change if you start switching things around.

Judgment/Adjustment - you changed it from Libra to Scorpio.

On Crowley's Card you have Ma'at who held the scales that weighed the heart of the deceased. On the older cards you have the "lady justice" figure holding the scales of justice. And the full title of th card "The Daughter of the Lords of Truth; the Ruler of the Balance." All the symbolism of the card comes from Libra. When you change it to Scorpio none of these meaning work anymore.

I'm not sure how pertinent it is to the matter, but some believe that at one time a pre-Greek zodiac consisted of only ten constellations with Virgo-Scorpio comprising a huge single entity. Libra was developed as a balance between the two. I believe the stars that are the scales of Libra were the claws of the scorpion. Manly P. Hall talks about it in "The Secret Teachings of All Ages":

The Zodiac and Its Signs

The Wikipedia article on Libra states:

The constellation, which had originally formed part of the claws of the scorpion (Scorpio), is the youngest of the Zodiac and the only one not to represent a living creature. In later Greek mythology, the constellation, which when considered on its own looks vaguely like a set of scales, was considered to depict the scales held by Astraea (identified as Virgo), the goddess of justice.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by Mayet
Nothing has been screwed up. If anything the purity is easier to understand. It builds and builds and grows and grows in pure numbers and shapes.

Screwed up was probably a poor choice of words on my part, but the meanings of the cards HAVE to change if you start switching things around.

Judgment/Adjustment - you changed it from Libra to Scorpio.

On Crowley's Card you have Ma'at who held the scales that weighed the heart of the deceased. On the older cards you have the "lady justice" figure holding the scales of justice. And the full title of th card "The Daughter of the Lords of Truth; the Ruler of the Balance." All the symbolism of the card comes from Libra. When you change it to Scorpio none of these meaning work anymore.

No all the symbolism did not come from Libra. Because of one simple thing overlooked. Libra = Air= Positive= male.
Libra has a male energy, therefore cannot follow through to be Ma'et the daughter. Or lady Justice. That is logic pure and simple, something over looked when learning by rote.

Scorpio however is. Scorpio is a fascinating lil sign. and it's a she. You say Ma'et as scorpio can't be the one who weighs the heart of the dead, yet scorpio was previously attributed to death. Scorpio attributes. Female.. negative .. Water...serpent...scorpion that transforms into the eagle... the three stages of scorpio, life, death, regeneration, solid, liquid, gas, (scorpio mutates itself to regenerate) serpent, scorpion, eagle (phoenix), rise from ashes, Oh theres more for the daughter... The symbolism fits everywhere....in the beginning Ra emerged from the waters of Nun. Scorpios that part of nature that keeps it from being stagnate. The mutatable aspect of the fire in the scorpions tail (cusp of sagi), the heat on the water causes the water to evaporate into clouds, the rainbow, the rainbow serpent. The balance.

It never fit before, people were taught and taught by master so ddin't question, were not encouraged to ask the obvious question. How come Libra which is male is attributed to a lady a woman a female.

The meanings do work, its just what people have been taught by rote as opposed to common sense may no longer suit what they have been taught.



[edit on 20-12-2005 by Mayet]

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by Mayet
The problem I feel personally with masonry is it is the last bastion of male dominance. They do not allow women entry to their lodges, they do not allow women to share the knowledge. instead they created a lesser order of the eastern star but do not enlighten them with the same secrets. masons seem to think that only men can be the bearers of the secret knowledge. The positive force as such male.. problem is there is also the female force to be reckoned with.

In this day and age of the 21st century women share the world stage with men, women have shown they have as much rights as men and shown they have the rights to the same knowledge as men. As far as esoteria is concernd women have as much right as men, as far as the world is concerned women have as much right to power as men. Basically you cant have the positive force without the negative force.

Ooops. Looked like you rather jumped the gun on that one...

www.co-masonry.org...

www.grandlodge.org.uk...

www.hfaf.org...

www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...

I guess that means you don't object to freemasonry after all...

Originally posted by Mayet
How long have masons ritualistically and symbolically used the tarot? Symbolism of male and female... translates to simple North South, positive negative. And what I have shown, what I have decoded is that they knew it for centuries... they lied, they kept it hidden.. or they had the keys but had trully lost the knowledge. I am more of the idea they knew and lied, that is how for so long they have been able to control everything, they knew the secrets of the physics, or or more to the point, they knew the physics... all along...

Unfortunately for your hypothesis freemasonry does not include tarot in its rituals and symbols.

But I am interested to know in what way you feel freemasonry has lied. At least... I think I am. I live in hope that someone with 'knowledge of freemasonry' will genuinely surprise me... it may be you.

Go on... spill the beans...

No I'll leave all that up to you. You see one thing from where you are, I see another from where I am. Your a lodge member sworn to secrecy of your teachings. You learn by rote a strict doctrine passed down through time. I'm free to learn and speak of what I wish.

The order of the Eastern Star which I presume you have linked me to and I have spoken about before is not the same as Freemasonry. I'll get to the links later after work I have too many important pages open at the moment. ES is a totally separate "secret society" run by the same organization. Perhaps to make masons feel better about not letting women into lodge meetings and perhaps to stop milions of wives throughout times from being peeved at husbands for having "secret business" or as my old granddaddy used to say, I'm going to see a man about a dog".

You do not allow women into your lodges in equal faith to the men. Women are not allowed to join a masonic lodge and instead they are directed to the OES where they do not participate in the same teachings rituals and degrees as the male lodge members. Been like that for centuries.

Anyhows as said you see one thing from inside, I see another from outside and never the twain shall meet. To tell the truth I think dressing in that cute little lambskin apron, having secret handshakes and signs and carrying around schoolies geometry sets is rather juvenile and enid blyton "secret Seven" material. So I will continue to sit here and giggle about grown men doing such things, and you can go about your ways with your secret mens business and we can both be happy.

we could argue these points all day, its detracted from what I said in the first place and gone off track. The points I raised is this decoding is pure physics, of which has been hidden in tarot throughout time. and yet science has only just now discovered these things themselves....'

I have several problems with your post Mayat. Let me break them down.

Originally posted by Mayet
No I'll leave all that up to you. You see one thing from where you are, I see another from where I am. Your a lodge member sworn to secrecy of your teachings. You learn by rote a strict doctrine passed down through time. I'm free to learn and speak of what I wish.

I am no such thing. Please spend the time to review some of my past posts - you will see that I speak freely of all I know. Further research on your part will reveal to you that freemasons are only bound not to reveal the 'modes of recognition', nothing else.

The order of the Eastern Star which I presume you have linked me to and I have spoken about before is not the same as Freemasonry. I'll get to the links later after work I have too many important pages open at the moment. ES is a totally separate "secret society" run by the same organization. Perhaps to make masons feel better about not letting women into lodge meetings and perhaps to stop milions of wives throughout times from being peeved at husbands for having "secret business" or as my old granddaddy used to say, I'm going to see a man about a dog".

You presume too much. Please accord me and this forum the respect of actually visiting the links rather than making assumptions.

You do not allow women into your lodges in equal faith to the men. Women are not allowed to join a masonic lodge and instead they are directed to the OES where they do not participate in the same teachings rituals and degrees as the male lodge members. Been like that for centuries.

I'm sorry to have to say this to you Mayat, but you don't know what you are talking about. The OES is a largely US invention, for the most part not existing in the rest of the world. Which is where I live - it's a little place just the other side of Canada .

Anyhows as said you see one thing from inside, I see another from outside and never the twain shall meet. To tell the truth I think dressing in that cute little lambskin apron, having secret handshakes and signs and carrying around schoolies geometry sets is rather juvenile and enid blyton "secret Seven" material. So I will continue to sit here and giggle about grown men doing such things, and you can go about your ways with your secret mens business and we can both be happy.

Ironically, judging from your posts so far I suspect you would thoroughly enjoy freemasonry. However, I'll leave you to your preconceptions and perhaps you'll think of freemasonry next time someone ignorant tries to tell you what a load of rubbish the Tarot is.

Thats strange. I have my grandmothers eastern star pin.. a little pale blue star. I'm in Australia - and the Eastern Star has been here a long long time. So I do doubt the eastern star is in fact an mostly American invention... My grandmothers been dead a long long time now and never had tv let alone gone to America.

I do not presume anything freemasons have not and do not allow women to study on the same levels as the men or join the same lodge meetings as the men. It is a very sexually discrimatory organisation.

Enjoy freemasonry.. No I think not, I could never get with an organisation that does think the men are better than women and have more rights to knowledge than women. I enjoy learning what I learn and besides that I have my own 33 degrees anyhows....its special

As said i will get to your links, I am currently working on something pretty special at the moment and have no room on tab at all to go searching other links.....

Originally posted by Mayet
Thats strange. I have my grandmothers eastern star pin.. a little pale blue star. I'm in Australia - and the Eastern Star has been here a long long time. So I do doubt the eastern star is in fact an mostly American invention... My grandmothers been dead a long long time now and never had tv let alone gone to America.

The Order of the Eastern Star was founded in Boston, Massachusetts, USA by Dr. Rob Morris in 1850. The Order is currently, and technically, 155 years old, although its original formation in 1850 was on paper only. It was not until another decade had passed that it began to become popular and spread.

I do not presume anything freemasons have not and do not allow women to study on the same levels as the men or join the same lodge meetings as the men. It is a very sexually discrimatory organisation.

Masonry is not in the least bit any more "sexually discriminatory" than any other fraternity (or sorority) in the world.



[edit on 21-12-2005 by Masonic Light]

It does offer a good criticism of the system tho. Women should be every bit as improvable and able to benefit from Regular Masonry as men.

Obviously the history and traditions of the group prevents women from being admitted without a break with history and tradition tho.

But then again, masonry used to be something was mostly only open to the upper class, the gentlemen, and not the rest of society. It dropped that pretense long ago, to everyone's benefit, so perhaps it could bear breaking with this other tradition.

edit to add:
I am confused by that co-masonry link, I thought co-masonry was stuff like the shriners, the eos, tall cedars, etc etc. But this seems to be saying co-masonry is another sort of masonry, like there is Regular, Irregular, and now co-Masonry.
Is co-masonry recognized by the UGLE or Irish or Scottish Grande Lodges?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
I am confused by that co-masonry link, I thought co-masonry was stuff like the shriners, the eos, tall cedars, etc etc. But this seems to be saying co-masonry is another sort of masonry, like there is Regular, Irregular, and now co-Masonry.
Is co-masonry recognized by the UGLE or Irish or Scottish Grande Lodges?

Nygdan

Nice to see someone could be bothered to open my links

There is male-only freemasonry, female-only freemasonry and mixed freemasonry (co-masonry). Neither of the latter two groups are recognized by regular freemasonry as they admit women, but I think it is very interesting that certain womens Grand Lodges are regarded by UGLE as regular in every respect except that they admit women, and regular discussions are held between UGLE and womens masonic organizations.

It should be pointed out that men are not allowed to join OWF (Order of Women Freemasons), or HFAF (Honorable Fraternity of Antient Freemasons), for example. But include co-masonry in the mix and there is something for everyone.

I will repeat what I said Trinityman. I do love your nick by the way, trinity. what does the trinity mean to you? hmm yes I can almost read those thoughts as you go through the symbolism and meaning of the trinity. Now back to my point, Freemasonry does not allow women to study on the same levels as men, they are simply not allowed.

We can talk co- freemasonry, eastern star, womens freemasonry as much as we like, it still detracts from that point, women are not allowed to study and learn the same material as men. A woman Grand Master of the lodge, hmm don't think so.It is sexually discrimiatory and the only way the freemasonry has been able to circumvent laws is to have itself declared as a charity. Build some old peoples homes here, a couple of private hospitals there, and it works, your outside the sexual discrimination laws. Its a business anyhows, Doesn't cost you anything, Its all donated and rolls over anyhows. Leaves you boys completely free to be the last bastion of male dominance.. only we are not talking chopping firewood here, or bringing home the bacon, we are talking knowledge, pure and simple knowledge. Why is it you feel that women cannot share in that SAME knowledge? Why do you feel that women are inferior and cannot learn what the men learn?

Don't get me wrong, you can go chop down as many trees as you want I am just not built for it, I am a woman and a tiny one at that I'll be only to pleased to bow down to your superiority in that regard. But Knowledge? thats another bag of fish. I have as much right to know as you do, for that matter, whats so secret about IT? why is it supposed to be a secret? what do you fear and what are you afraid of by keeping it to the select few? What do you gain? Oh well don't answer that part, its easy to see what you gain.. control for one...actually I could probably answer them but I'd really like to hear your views.





[edit on 22-12-2005 by Mayet]