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Freemasonry and the Tarot

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posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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I still think there is a connection.




posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Alex_De_Large
I still think there is a connection.


How profound.

Why don't you explain why you think there is a connection, rather than just saying you think there is a connection. It has already been established that your original assertion is lacking... so fill us in... or don't, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

I will say this: While I do not believe that Freemasonry utilizes the Tarot in its teachings, i do believe that the knowledge that can be derived from using the Tarot is similar to what Freemasonry teaches; it is simply another vehicle of the same knowledge, i.e. knowledge of self, or rather, introspection for the purpose of self-improvement.

That, of course, is merely my own opinion.

The connection you are trying to make, however, is dubious at best.

[edit on 9/24/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by Alex_De_Large
I still think there is a connection.


How profound.

Why don't you explain why you think there is a connection, rather than just saying you think there is a connection. It has already been established that your original assertion is lacking... so fill us in... or don't, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.


But still he has the right to state that he holds his opinion even if he doesn't have the supportive evidence needed to make his supposition compelling. And of course we all have the right to call him on it and present opinions of our own. It is still a free country, at least for today. The intentions of my posts on this thread were only meant to be constructive, I just want to emphasize that point.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Cicada
But still he has the right to state that he holds his opinion even if he doesn't have the supportive evidence needed to make his supposition compelling. And of course we all have the right to call him on it and present opinions of our own. It is still a free country, at least for today. The intentions of my posts on this thread were only meant to be constructive, I just want to emphasize that point.


Hey I'm trying to be constructive, too; it's just that "I think there is a connection" isn't really conducive to discussion.

Tell us why and then there will be something to talk about.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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Is the Tarot like Runes?



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by crimsonflame
Is the Tarot like Runes?


No, it is a deck of cards that use visual symbolism to convey its teachings. I wouldn't recommend using it without proper training (or at least a good deal of research and study into the symbolism)... baby steps, you know?

They are, however, very useful f you know what you are doing. Again, like I said, for introspection for the purpose of self-improvement.

For those who might be interested, B.O.T.A. has an excellent curriculum.

Tarot Axemen, not just for the "Queen of Hearts" anymore...

(apologies MM, I always wanted to do that
)

[edit on 9/25/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Axeman, it was not my intention to knock you either. You have every right to ask for someone to explain the reason for their position. Something tells me Alex_De_Large is unequipped to do so at this time.

Unless you're superstitious in nature then there's no reason to fear a deck of Tarot cards even if you're not trained or initiated with them. They're just cards with pictures on them. They're designed to be looked at and analyzed. There's lots of things we can do on any given day to give ourselves a case of the creeps, that doesn't mean there's any real danger. Any divinatory device is capable of freaking you out. A Ouija board manufactured by Parker Brothers is certainly more psycho-dynamic than reading Tarot cards, which in my experience usually requires flipping through a little book to make even a semblance of sense to the casual user. Worry when you drive your car, you can get killed really easily doing that. But Tarot cards? Paper cut danger level at best. Don't fear symbols. Dr. Waite states in "The Key to the Tarot": "The true tarot is symbolism; it speaks no other signs." (quote courtesy of the little book that came with my Rider Tarot Deck, published by U.S.Games Systems, Inc.)



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Cicada
Axeman, it was not my intention to knock you either. You have every right to ask for someone to explain the reason for their position. Something tells me Alex_De_Large is unequipped to do so at this time.

Unless you're superstitious in nature then there's no reason to fear a deck of Tarot cards even if you're not trained or initiated with them. They're just cards with pictures on them. They're designed to be looked at and analyzed. There's lots of things we can do on any given day to give ourselves a case of the creeps, that doesn't mean there's any real danger. Any divinatory device is capable of freaking you out. A Ouija board manufactured by Parker Brothers is certainly more psycho-dynamic than reading Tarot cards, which in my experience usually requires flipping through a little book to make even a semblance of sense to the casual user. Worry when you drive your car, you can get killed really easily doing that. But Tarot cards? Paper cut danger level at best. Don't fear symbols. Dr. Waite states in "The Key to the Tarot": "The true tarot is symbolism; it speaks no other signs." (quote courtesy of the little book that came with my Rider Tarot Deck, published by U.S.Games Systems, Inc.)


OK, maybe I sounded a little silly, but I didn't mean it like you could be hurt or something, or that one should be afraid of the Tarot... like you said they are just cards with pictures on them. It's just that in order to understand the Tarot the way that the Adepts who created it intended, proper training and study is required. Myself I am still just at the tip of the iceberg with Tarot. It is a very powerful tool if used properly.

Hint: fortune-telling or divination is not the intended purpose, though it seems that alot of people believe this to be the case, and to a reasonable degree, it can be pretty accurate. It is actually a teaching tool, a vehicle for discovering the Divine Truths of the Universe; but not by any means the only vehicle.

Didn't mean to sound superstitious; I'm really not superstitious at all, not counting the little crap I do out of habit and tradition, which I know to be nonsense, I just keep doing it anyway (not killing crickets in the house, knocking on wood, etc.).



[edit on 9/25/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Fair enough. Sorry, I woke up on the snarky side of the bed this morning. I agree, as I hope my Dr. Waite quote shows, that the Tarot was not originated as a divinatory device. I believe that particular connotation arose from carnies (and their ilk) using the cards as props while they ran a con job on people. Any complex system of symbolism can generate startling results because the interpretation is subjective. One person could sit for a reading and be startled by the results that are generated, their imagination stepping in to fill in the empty spaces and apply the information to their own lives. Another individual incapable of making the connections would be completely unmoved (a much sadder scenario if you ask me). As other posts of mine will demonstrate I'm by no means a strict rationalist. I believe reality is rather plastic (YMMV) and have personally experienced too many moments of synchronicity to believe that there's nothing more to the universe than what can be perceived by our limited senses.

It's very respectful to want to abide by the originator of the system's original intentions. I hold no such concern. After any work of art is generated, be it modern or ancient, the creator has little or no control on how a viewer interacts with it. In the interpretation of symbolism there are no right or wrong answers. It isn't math. That's what makes (IMO) devices like the I Ching or the Tarot such powerful tools for personal introspection.

p.s. I have my superstitious moments as well. I also knock wood and I have a little money tikki bought at Hilo Hatties that I get very upset about if, for example, the cat knocks it over. And you couldn't pay me to take volcanic rock home from Hawaii. I don't need to be cursed by Pele (the volcano goddess, not the soccer player, although I guess that would kind of suck too).

[edit on 25-9-2005 by Cicada]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 10:34 PM
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I still think there is a connection.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Alex_De_Large
I still think there is a connection.


We know, you said that already.


Why?



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman


I will say this: While I do not believe that Freemasonry utilizes the Tarot in its teachings, i do believe that the knowledge that can be derived from using the Tarot is similar to what Freemasonry teaches; it is simply another vehicle of the same knowledge, i.e. knowledge of self, or rather, introspection for the purpose of self-improvement.

That, of course, is merely my own opinion.



As well as mine. The Tarot is only briefly mentioned in one of the Scottish Rite degrees, but I would argue that the Tarot is based on the same body of teachings as esoteric Masonry, i.e., the Kabalah.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Alex_De_Large
I still think there is a connection.


Oy vey.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
...I would argue that the Tarot is based on the same body of teachings as esoteric Masonry, i.e., the Kabalah.


And hopefully no one would make you argue too vigorously since it is almost instantly demonstrable just from looking at the images. See my earlier posts on this thread for some examples. The Cabbalistic imagery is particularly apparent in the Major Arcana. The thing to keep in mind is that while the Cabbalah is certainly an element of the esoteric stream it's just one aspect of hermetecism. In my opinion the Cabbalah serves as a very useful key to unlocking the argots imbedded within the occult (meaning hidden) tradition. Cabbalah is "hot" right now with the New Age/alternative religion set, but if taken just at face value it becomes just another abstract system of spiritualism, not that there's anything wrong with that per se.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Cicada
Cabbalah is "hot" right now with the New Age/alternative religion set, but if taken just at face value it becomes just another abstract system of spiritualism, not that there's anything wrong with that per se.



I also find it sort of humurous that studying Kabalah has become a fad. It will probably go the way of hippie Zen, which didn't last too long, but perhaps at least a few will get something out of it.

Anyway, just for informational purposes, this is what Pike wrote in regards to the Tarot:

He who desires to attain to the understanding of the Grand Word and the possession of the Great Secret, ought carefully to read the Hermetic philosophers, and will undoubtedly attain initiation, as others have done; but he must take, for the key of their allegories, the single dogma of Hermes, contained in his table of Emerald, and follow, to class his acquisitions of knowledge and direct the operation, the order indicated in the Kabalistic alphabet of the Tarot.

- Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma", p. 777



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Anyway, just for informational purposes, this is what Pike wrote in regards to the Tarot:

He who desires to attain to the understanding of the Grand Word and the possession of the Great Secret, ought carefully to read the Hermetic philosophers, and will undoubtedly attain initiation, as others have done; but he must take, for the key of their allegories, the single dogma of Hermes, contained in his table of Emerald, and follow, to class his acquisitions of knowledge and direct the operation, the order indicated in the Kabalistic alphabet of the Tarot.

- Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma", p. 777


Thanks for sharing that. It's essentially the same thing I was trying to say just phrased more artfully.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I also find it sort of humurous that studying Kabalah has become a fad.


Hmmmmm....



The newest initiated member of the masonic fraternity???




"We're gonna punk the sisters at the Order of the Eastern Star tonight"

"Our goat had a heart attack while you were riding it! Pysche, you just got punked!"


Hell, he's almost a Shriner already!



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

He who desires to attain to the understanding of the Grand Word and the possession of the Great Secret, ought carefully to read the Hermetic philosophers, and will undoubtedly attain initiation, as others have done; but he must take, for the key of their allegories, the single dogma of Hermes, contained in his table of Emerald, and follow, to class his acquisitions of knowledge and direct the operation, the order indicated in the Kabalistic alphabet of the Tarot.

- Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma", p. 777



And here is the Emerald Tablet of Tehuti, for those who may be interested:



Emerald Tablet, The An ancient teaching by Hermes Trismegistus (the Egyptian Thoth), and one of the most fundamental texts of the Alchemical tradition. This is the complete text:

“It is true, no lie, certain, and to be depended upon, the superior agrees with the inferior, and the inferior with the superior, to effect that one truly wonderful work. As all things owe their existence to the will of the Only One, so all things owe their origin to the One Only Thing, the most hidden, by the arrangement of the Only God. The Father of that One Only Thing is the Sun, its Mother is the Moon, the Wind carries it in its belly; but its nourse is a Spirituous Earth. That One Only Thing is the Father of all things in the Universe, its power is perfect, after it is has been united to a Spirituous Earth. Separate that Spirituous Earth from the dense or crude by means of a gentle heat, with much attention. In great measure it ascends from the Earth up to Heaven, and the superior and the inferior are increased in power. By this thou wilt partake of the honours of the whole world. And the Darkness will fly from thee. This is the strength of all powers. With this thou wilt be able to overcome all things and to transmute all what is fine and what is coarse. In this manner, the world was created; the arrangements to follow this road are hidden. In this is hidden the Wisdom of the whole world.”



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 10:46 PM
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This is very interesting, I hope more people have information on this. I was not aware that Freemasonry had anything to do with the Tarot.



-- Boat



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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Now correct me if I am wrong, but the pracitces of Freemasons are rather arcane? So it would really be of no surprise if they were to practice such an old form of divination.



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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If you believe that the Freemasons and the Rosicrucians are the descendents of the Knights Templar, and that the Templars brought the Tarot to Western Europe as a parcel of the esoteric knowledge they acquired in the Holy Land, then the matters are not just related but intimately intertwined.





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