CCP Official Claims Sino-Japanese War Possible by Year’s End

There's nothing wrong with fascism as long as we've got capitalism.

Ahem, please cease the personal attacks in the thread. They add nothing to the discussion at hand and are not allowed here at ATS.

Thanks

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
As for ICBM's lemme check sinodefence.com some 3000 nuclear warheads, most land based, 98 at year 2000 is the estimated number of ICBMs. More then enough to cause major damage to the US, but y'know MAD tv... eh.

And please leave keep Nuclear Arms out of the discussion no one can win a nuclear war even if the other guy has none you still can't win in the long term.

Sorry, Sinodefence is dubious at best. Lets try some more realistic sites shall we?

Global Security has them at 24 total ICBMs. Of those, you can count on at least half getting taken out before they are launched, if not more.

Chinas SSBNs have no shot against a preplanned US first strike (which I am assuming it would be, since that is our doctrine). They'd be the first thing blown out of the water. They supposedly have 24 SLBMs on their boomers, but like I said, it is doubtfull that they would get them off.

Perhaps I did mix up the number of warheads with number of weapons, but in any case, Chinas nuclear arsenal is a small fraction of that of the US. Further more, the US has MUCH better delivery systems, both in terms of acuracy, reliability, and observability.

China also ahs pledged a no first use doctrine (though recent words have indicated otherwise). Couple that with the current US doctrine of preemptive strike if we believe nuclear war is inevitable (and believe me, if the US and China were to get into it it would go nuclear), and China wouldn't have a sufficient retalitory force.

As for the 'no one can win in a nuclear war' I don't agree. Is it something anyone wants to get involved in? Of course not. But the fact is a nuclear war IS winnable, especially with the first strike ability that the US has with it's B-2 bombers and SSBNs. The US would take some hits from China - there is no way we could take out ALL of Chinas nuclear deterent. But taking out enough of Chinas nukes to make the war clearly a 'win' for the US? Absolutely.

If the US loses 20 of it's biggest cities, and say 50 of it's military bases (exagerated in IMHO), thats a win for the US if China loses every military base and every major and mid sized city. I understand the point some of you are trying to make, and to an extent I agree. But to say that nuclear war is not winnable is patently false. You CAN win, as long as you are willing to take your own share of casualties.

Anyway, don't take this as anything I am looking forward to. Far from it. It is just the way I see things from a logical, statistical view. Put it this way, Russia thought it could win nuclear war with the US when Russia was far stronger then China is now, and the US was far weaker then it is now.

Mr. middlekingdom you say 7million chinese died during WWII and that is 7 million to many but how many did your avatar mr. mao kill? 30 million how dare you use his picture.

Originally posted by Oct
CCP Official Claims Sino-Japanese War Possible by Year’s End

I never believe such kind of things will be happen.It's so ridiculous.Is the CCP mad?China is involved in the economy development and deal with so many internal problems.Furthermore,most of Chinese people know what the war is.They will not forced war upon other country as US did it.

Oct is one member of the FLG.He make mischief between China and the west.If China meet some disasters,he is one of the happiest.He gloat over Chinese misfortune. I will tell my domestic people there are some Hanjian like Oct in the wolrd.They are Chinese bailei.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by joechino]

[edit on 16-8-2005 by joechino]

Originally posted by RaiderJose
but how many did your avatar mr. mao kill? 30 million how dare you use his picture.

What on earth do you know about China history?How do you know Chairman Mao kill 30 million people?How many civilians did Mr.Bush kill in Iraq?And will kill?

[edit on 16-8-2005 by joechino]

CCP origins from Russian communism, it was a branch of Russian CP, it was led by a foreign evil party. Therefore CCP could not benefit Chinese from its nature.

Chinese people have suffered too much under CCP's evil rule, for the sake of Chinese and all the people who love peace and freedom, exposing the anti-human nature of CCP is necessary.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by Oct]

Urm, why would China want to get involved in a nuclear war with Japan? China has it going pretty good at the moment, in case no-one's noticed. Nuclear war would not serve their interests at all. The most I can see happening are some minor skirmishes over disputed undersea oil deposits. Once the conflict becomes nuclear, any gains either party would have made regarding resources would become irrelevant.

-koji K.

Originally posted by Oct
CCP origins from Russian communism, it was a branch of Russian CP, it was led by a foreign evil party. Therefore CCP could not benefit Chinese from its nature.

Never saw such naive reason before

Chinese people have suffered too much under CCP's evil rule, for the sake of Chinese and all the people who love peace and freedom, exposing the anti-human nature of CCP is necessary.
[edit on 16-8-2005 by Oct]

Stop posting articles from your organization's website. I don't think any official websites will cite those articles which can't be proved to be true.

Originally posted by joechino
What on earth do you know about China history?How do you know Chairman Mao kill 30 million people?How many civilians did Mr.Bush kill in Iraq?And will kill?

Far fewer than Mao did in his intial war of agression, then untold millions during the great leap nowhere and the cultural revolution. Really now, how many people died during those times according to your little red book?

Originally posted by FredT
Far fewer than Mao did in his intial war of agression, then untold millions during the great leap nowhere and the cultural revolution. Really now, how many people died during those times according to your little red book?

Amazing how the entire Western world loves to expound upon the atrocities of the Great Mao but love to look the other way when it coes to the Western world's equally satanic acts in it's history...

Honestly, how many people here are Sinophobic? The hatred of China is absolutely astounding and it's starting to became the new "fad" in hate.

Do us all a favor and stop posting your hate filled fascist propoganda, you insult our government, you insult our economic system and by doing so you mock all the achievements and sacrificies of the Chinese people!

A war with Japan is not possible, Japan has substantial investments in China that we are making a huge profit from! There is no reason for a war especially over such insignificant islands to start. If you see maneuvers and troop movements near Japan maybe, but the PLAN is in no position to fight an offencive war against the IJN! (I forget what the modern name for it).

And a Nuke war is unwinnable because of all the pollution and long term effects will cause, possibly eroding the ozone layer.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Amazing how the entire Western world loves to expound upon the atrocities of the Great Mao but love to look the other way when it coes to the Western world's equally satanic acts in it's history...

Hmm we could have a debate on that, however, the poster claimed that the atrocities committed by the great mao was exaggerated. Are you disputing that fact with your straw-man?

The thread is interesting but I feel the end result of nuclear war is the end. And as Cayce' once said in trance and read(Sugai River) there are those that will not allow the destruction of earth - from above.

Dallas

Originally posted by FredT
Hmm we could have a debate on that, however, the poster claimed that the atrocities committed by the great mao was exaggerated. Are you disputing that fact with your straw-man?

Honestly, I dunno how many people Mao killed. It's just like the war in Iraq. I know lots of people are dead, but how many of them were killed by Bush, I dunno. Same situation, the way I see it.

To me, Mao is like Bush. Both (supposedly) had and have good interests in their heart. It's just that their actions end up having the opposite intended effect.

Originally posted by FredT

Far fewer than Mao did in his intial war of agression, then untold millions during the great leap nowhere and the cultural revolution. Really now, how many people died during those times according to your little red book?

How many Indian people were killed by America white people from 1700 to 1939?

[edit on 17-8-2005 by joechino]

Chino,you should understand that the typical response to that is...

Nuh uuh! The Indians just died, you know, from disease that White people gave them directly.

Which isn't killing

Really, even when you go to great lengths to do it...

I really think that it has just been used as a cover story though, I really don't think 75% of the Native Americans had no immune system, and died without reproducing offspring that WAS resistant (to Euro-brought diseases).

Lets not even get into the story of cowboys and california...

I think China would sooner occupy portions of the States than invade Japan. Because by going to Cali, the China saves itself the effort of going to Taiwan (which will in NO WAY be like Hong Kong)

Have you seen the movie "Dance with wolves" made by US?

Originally posted by akilles
Chino,you should understand that the typical response to that is...

Nuh uuh! The Indians just died, you know, from disease that White people gave them directly.

Which isn't killing

Really, even when you go to great lengths to do it...

I really think that it has just been used as a cover story though, I really don't think 75% of the Native Americans had no immune system, and died without reproducing offspring that WAS resistant (to Euro-brought diseases).

Lets not even get into the story of cowboys and california...

I think China would sooner occupy portions of the States than invade Japan. Because by going to Cali, the China saves itself the effort of going to Taiwan (which will in NO WAY be like Hong Kong)

[edit on 18-8-2005 by google_abcd]

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
Do us all a favor and stop posting your hate filled fascist propoganda, you insult our government, you insult our economic system and by doing so you mock all the achievements and sacrificies of the Chinese people!

Chinese people are precious, Chinese traditional culture is great. I love Chinese, I hope China can be a good place for Chinese to live in.

However, CCP has destroyed many great things in china, and has changed many chinese's character. it is so sad.

Now, CCP is coming to its end, however, it wants to save itself, it has the plan to start a war to transfer its crisis.

How is it in any way coming to its end? Do you LIVE in China? Do you understand the culture? I'm glad you seem to at least respect China or what you think China was "before the EVIL CCP came" but the CCP isn't evil its a political movement hoping to transform china and begin the road to the eventual road to world revolution, and when the leaders in Beijing understand that their leadership is nolonger required it is underdoubtable that democracy will then come. But it will still be Communist with Open Market leanings because that is how things are, there has never been a better system to govern hundreds of millions of people effieciently and to achieve the best long term economic growth then Deng's Communism and what it is transforming into with a younger generation coming into power.