Jahbulon - Masonic god, page 2
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reply posted on 16-8-2005 @ 03:26 PM by Masonic Light
Originally posted by rahboni
I'm going to go out on a limb here, so those who are traditionalists can flame away.


When it comes to Masonry, I'm about as much as a traditionalist as one can get. But instead of "flaming away", I'll address your points.

The language used in the regular ceremonies has no place in the modern world.


Why not? What kind of language would you prefer?

The symbolism is rather esoteric & is basically a blur to those who have been raised in the recent past.


Would you also recommend somehow changing or deleting Masonic symbolism, and if so, in what way? And if Masonic symbolism seems esoteric or abstract, are you of the opinion that it is that way by accident?

While the sentiments are true to this day, many a good man has been put off by the nonsensical ritual & requirements, or just his plain old duties as a part of a family.


So you, my Brother, a Past Master, consider our ritual and requirements "nonsensical". If this is true, what motivates you to participate?

If it were not for the old "stick-in-the-muds", Grand Lodges would be able to attempt to "modernize" rituals, and be more forthcoming. Let's face it.....this isn't your Father's Lodge anymore.


As the archetypal old stick-in-the-mud, I fail to understand the purpose of "modernizing" ritual, and eliminating intellectual requirements. In fact, I would argue that we've been too lax as it is, and the dumbing down of Masonry is an obstacle that, if not overcome, could prove fatal. To see what I mean, all we have to do is look at statistics: what masonic organizations are prospering and which are deteriorating?

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

Traditional observance Lodges in the US, which follow the pattern of the continental, are growing in number. Although a new phenomenon, it is very attractive to those Masons who believe that Masonry may actually possess something worth teaching.

Educational societies, such as the Scottish Rite Research Society, whose members present papers reflecting outstanding scholarship.

Now, consider those bodies that are having the most problems:

Blue Lodges whose officers stumble through the work without the slightest idea of what they're talking about during the ritual, and don't care.

"Social" bodies such as the Shrine whose rituals are based on juvenility, and whose memberships are dropping even faster than the abovementioned Blue Lodges.

There is an old cliche that says that, in Masonry, one gets out of it what he puts into it. From my experience, that is a truthful saying. One of the problems is, as I see it, some well-intentioned Brethren are not themselves sure about what Masonry actually is, and want to "improve" it. I remain thankful that, when I was sworn in as Master of my Lodge years ago, I vowed never to countenance an innovations in Masonry, and sincerely hope that most other Grand Lodges feature this clause in the PM obligation.


reply posted on 16-8-2005 @ 05:58 PM by eudaimonia
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by Masonic Light
As the archetypal old stick-in-the-mud, I fail to understand the purpose of "modernizing" ritual, and eliminating intellectual requirements. In fact, I would argue that we've been too lax as it is, and the dumbing down of Masonry is an obstacle that, if not overcome, could prove fatal. To see what I mean, all we have to do is look at statistics: what masonic organizations are prospering and which are deteriorating?

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

Traditional observance Lodges in the US, which follow the pattern of the continental, are growing in number. Although a new phenomenon, it is very attractive to those Masons who believe that Masonry may actually possess something worth teaching.


Brother ML, your wisdom is only outdone by your ability to express said wisdom perfectly. I have read many of your posts, but I have never agreed more with your opinion than I do with the one in your last post here. You have provided me with a great perspective that, in my opinion, is a clear representation of the current state of the Craft. Thank you.


You have voted Masonic Light for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.





ML's writing skills is impressive.

The content of his writings on the other hand reeks of WHO-GIVES-A-FLIPPIN-DONKEY'S-BEHIND-ABOUT-LODGES.


reply posted on 16-8-2005 @ 08:44 PM by senrak
Originally posted by eudaimonia
hey Mirth, think she's cute? :nudge nudge:


HEY NOW! You can slander Freemasonry if you like, and even toss an insult here and there (we ALL do that) but I draw the line at you trying to push off that foul temptress on Mirth! He is a MARRIED Primate, after all.

..she IS kind of cute, though...


[edit on 16-8-2005 by senrak]


reply posted on 17-8-2005 @ 09:37 AM by Mirthful Me
Originally posted by eudaimonia
hey Mirth, think she's cute? :nudge nudge:



Though hardly worth acknowledging, the thought that I would be tempted by some painted harlot is a reflection of your own base character, and not indicative of my own sublime tastes.

When I'm not on ATS:



Sultan Monkeys, not just for nights in white satin anymore...


reply posted on 17-8-2005 @ 03:38 PM by moonchild
Originally posted by sebatwerk
It may not be Thelemic, but what you are practicing sure as heck isn't FREEMASONRY.


And what the hell would you know about this? Masonry is a lot broader than what you think it is. There is a lot of masonic bodies and institutions on this planet. Im seriously wondering where you got the idea that YOU were practicing the REAL masonry while dismissing all the other rites. Masonry is far more than your rite alone. Either you are uninformed or willingly ignorant. I will let you know that our masonic rituals will be exactly perfectly similars to yours. We do our ''weird strange occult stuff'' in separated instances. This attitude youre having toward me is actually anti masonic because masonry preaches acceptance and tolerance. Your ego is a lot larger than your actual knowledge

And let me tell you this. You guys (masonic posers like you) are the laughing stock of the occult world. you are considered like furniture in a lodge. and the fact that you got your 32nd degree immedialty after the blue lodges just confirm this. You guys are into masonry just for the pleasure of parading into your lambskin and white gloves. You dont know CRAP about what masonry really is. It is WAY MORE than just the boring theory on symbols and hiram and solomon etc etc. You actually managed to turn an institution that was filled with crazy possibilities and openness into a closed cirle of conservatism and denial of what it originally was. Very sad in my opinion. A TRUE mason would be glad to meet a brother from a different rite than his own, because he would be happy to grind theories and idea with him. He would actually learn out of it. The only thing youve been doing with me since i got here is dissing me and deny what i do. not only that is lame, it shows that you are far from mastering the values taught by masonry. well, im not surprised at all, since you actually did 4 degrees out of 32, and you are proud of it!!!

WAKE UP BUDDY. masonry is way more than just the scottish rite. Either you are ignorant, or you are brainwashed by your allegiance to one rite out of all those out there. The ''recognition'' thing is pure BS. all masons under the sun belong to the same order and brotherhood and will go to the same celestial lodge when they pass out.

If all those ''great masons'' (beethoven etc) that you quote so often would actually get to meet you, they would laught at you for your miserable and closed minded attitude of yours.

now please will you shut up already with that garbage coming out of your mouth?
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