Jahbulon - Masonic god

Originally posted by rahboni
I'm going to go out on a limb here, so those who are traditionalists can flame away.

When it comes to Masonry, I'm about as much as a traditionalist as one can get. But instead of "flaming away", I'll address your points.

The language used in the regular ceremonies has no place in the modern world.

Why not? What kind of language would you prefer?

The symbolism is rather esoteric & is basically a blur to those who have been raised in the recent past.

Would you also recommend somehow changing or deleting Masonic symbolism, and if so, in what way? And if Masonic symbolism seems esoteric or abstract, are you of the opinion that it is that way by accident?

While the sentiments are true to this day, many a good man has been put off by the nonsensical ritual & requirements, or just his plain old duties as a part of a family.

So you, my Brother, a Past Master, consider our ritual and requirements "nonsensical". If this is true, what motivates you to participate?

If it were not for the old "stick-in-the-muds", Grand Lodges would be able to attempt to "modernize" rituals, and be more forthcoming. Let's face it.....this isn't your Father's Lodge anymore.

As the archetypal old stick-in-the-mud, I fail to understand the purpose of "modernizing" ritual, and eliminating intellectual requirements. In fact, I would argue that we've been too lax as it is, and the dumbing down of Masonry is an obstacle that, if not overcome, could prove fatal. To see what I mean, all we have to do is look at statistics: what masonic organizations are prospering and which are deteriorating?

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

Traditional observance Lodges in the US, which follow the pattern of the continental, are growing in number. Although a new phenomenon, it is very attractive to those Masons who believe that Masonry may actually possess something worth teaching.

Educational societies, such as the Scottish Rite Research Society, whose members present papers reflecting outstanding scholarship.

Now, consider those bodies that are having the most problems:

Blue Lodges whose officers stumble through the work without the slightest idea of what they're talking about during the ritual, and don't care.

"Social" bodies such as the Shrine whose rituals are based on juvenility, and whose memberships are dropping even faster than the abovementioned Blue Lodges.

There is an old cliche that says that, in Masonry, one gets out of it what he puts into it. From my experience, that is a truthful saying. One of the problems is, as I see it, some well-intentioned Brethren are not themselves sure about what Masonry actually is, and want to "improve" it. I remain thankful that, when I was sworn in as Master of my Lodge years ago, I vowed never to countenance an innovations in Masonry, and sincerely hope that most other Grand Lodges feature this clause in the PM obligation.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
As the archetypal old stick-in-the-mud, I fail to understand the purpose of "modernizing" ritual, and eliminating intellectual requirements. In fact, I would argue that we've been too lax as it is, and the dumbing down of Masonry is an obstacle that, if not overcome, could prove fatal. To see what I mean, all we have to do is look at statistics: what masonic organizations are prospering and which are deteriorating?

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

Traditional observance Lodges in the US, which follow the pattern of the continental, are growing in number. Although a new phenomenon, it is very attractive to those Masons who believe that Masonry may actually possess something worth teaching.

Brother ML, your wisdom is only outdone by your ability to express said wisdom perfectly. I have read many of your posts, but I have never agreed more with your opinion than I do with the one in your last post here. You have provided me with a great perspective that, in my opinion, is a clear representation of the current state of the Craft. Thank you.

You have voted Masonic Light for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Jahbulon sounds a lot like zabulon, the leader of one of the 12 tribes of israel, mentionned in Revelations 7:8, among other places. Depending on the traduction of the bible youre choosing, Its it written Zebulun, Zabulun, Zabulon, Zebulon, Zabulion etc.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Masonic Light
As the archetypal old stick-in-the-mud, I fail to understand the purpose of "modernizing" ritual, and eliminating intellectual requirements. In fact, I would argue that we've been too lax as it is, and the dumbing down of Masonry is an obstacle that, if not overcome, could prove fatal. To see what I mean, all we have to do is look at statistics: what masonic organizations are prospering and which are deteriorating?

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

Traditional observance Lodges in the US, which follow the pattern of the continental, are growing in number. Although a new phenomenon, it is very attractive to those Masons who believe that Masonry may actually possess something worth teaching.

Brother ML, your wisdom is only outdone by your ability to express said wisdom perfectly. I have read many of your posts, but I have never agreed more with your opinion than I do with the one in your last post here. You have provided me with a great perspective that, in my opinion, is a clear representation of the current state of the Craft. Thank you.

You have voted Masonic Light for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

ML's writing skills is impressive.

The content of his writings on the other hand reeks of WHO-GIVES-A-FLIPPIN-DONKEY'S-BEHIND-ABOUT-LODGES.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Continental Lodges that have strict requirements are prospering. Some Lodges require a year between each degree, with the candidate being required to submit research papers on Masonic topics before advancing.

im my case, There is no waiting periods withing degrees. To advance to the next degree, i have to submit 3 research papers on the topics studied during my current degree. Of course at the beginning everyone pretty much do the same kind of work (1st degree : Roles of a freemason in society, Explain the symbolics of the compass, hammer, etc, Explain what is the chain of fraternal union) Then as you advance you can have more latitude in your research, for exemple my last research project was an attemps to integrate the teachings of aleister crowley, oriental philosophy, yoga and the kaballah. Was pretty fun to make and even funnier to read it out loud in the lodge.

A:.L:.G:.D:.G:.A:.D:.M:.

Moonchild :.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
ML's writing skills is impressive.

The content of his writings on the other hand reeks of WHO-GIVES-A-FLIPPIN-DONKEY'S-BEHIND-ABOUT-LODGES.

Having been on the receiving end of his quill, I'm sure you have quite the appreciation for his sage edification, though I see you've retained a rather barnyard decorum about yourself.

I would remind you that your prolific tendencies in this forum would indicate you covet said "FLIPPIN-DONKEY'S-BEHIND."

Farmer Brown Monkeys, not just for leaving the barn door open anymore...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Having been on the receiving end of his quill, I'm sure you have quite the appreciation for his sage edification, though I see you've retained a rather barnyard decorum about yourself.

Are you calling me...gay?

Farmer Brown Monkeys, not just for leaving the barn door open anymore...

There hasn't been one monkey line from you that I've understood. Explain why you love monkeys so much

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Having been on the receiving end of his quill, I'm sure you have quite the appreciation for his sage edification, though I see you've retained a rather barnyard decorum about yourself.

Are you calling me...gay?

He said you're acting like an ass. Only much more eloquently.

There hasn't been one monkey line from you that I've understood.

That doesn't surprise me, honestly.

Explain why you love monkeys so much

He IS a Monkey. Try to keep up.

[edit on 8/16/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
He IS a Monkey. Try to keep up.

Well that explains everything.

hey Mirth, think she's cute? :nudge nudge:

Originally posted by eudaimonia
hey Mirth, think she's cute? :nudge nudge:

HEY NOW! You can slander Freemasonry if you like, and even toss an insult here and there (we ALL do that) but I draw the line at you trying to push off that foul temptress on Mirth! He is a MARRIED Primate, after all.

..she IS kind of cute, though...


[edit on 16-8-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by moonchild
Then as you advance you can have more latitude in your research, for exemple my last research project was an attemps to integrate the teachings of aleister crowley, oriental philosophy, yoga and the kaballah. Was pretty fun to make and even funnier to read it out loud in the lodge.

interesting. Is your Rite Thelemic?

Originally posted by satellitewizard1
may i ask what draws you to become a freemason? is it lack of something in life? my friend was not getting on with his wife to well, was a cabbage, bored with life, so he asked in the shop next door where his friend ran a security firm, whom he knew was a mason if he could get him in, which he did. i went to his house the other day where he showed me his certificate. apart from helping eachother getting jobs etc, which youre supposedly not meant to do, im lost what the attraction is. all the rubbish you have to recite, meetings to attend, having to be one all your life once youre in, the silly initiations etc???

The reason men draw themselves towards freemasonry, well, it is to obtain the perception of owning godly powers/knowledge above the everyday common man. Why else would a secret society contain rituals, altars, worshipful masters, symbolism, paganism and the segregation of the female gender?

They wish to be gods amongst men, and it remains as simple as that... make note that that comment is geared towards the elite masons, the recruitment grounds for the illuminati objective to enslave mankind.

hehehe..

Originally posted by eudaimonia
hey Mirth, think she's cute? :nudge nudge:

Though hardly worth acknowledging, the thought that I would be tempted by some painted harlot is a reflection of your own base character, and not indicative of my own sublime tastes.

When I'm not on ATS:



Sultan Monkeys, not just for nights in white satin anymore...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Though hardly worth acknowledging, the thought that I would be tempted by some painted harlot is a reflection of your own base character, and not indicative of my own sublime tastes.

When I'm not on ATS:



Sultan Monkeys, not just for nights in white satin anymore...

Originally posted by eudaimonia
ML's writing skills is impressive.

The content of his writings on the other hand reeks of WHO-GIVES-A-FLIPPIN-DONKEY'S-BEHIND-ABOUT-LODGES.

If you have nothing better than this to contribute, please don't post.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Though hardly worth acknowledging, the thought that I would be tempted by some painted harlot

I can't help but state, as an aside, that the word 'harlot', infact, starts off as the Temple Dancer, the Painted Women of the Temple.

So technically the monkey-bitch in the second picture is the harlot.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Though hardly worth acknowledging, the thought that I would be tempted by some painted harlot

Originally posted by Nygdan
I can't help but state, as an aside, that the word 'harlot', infact, starts off as the Temple Dancer, the Painted Women of the Temple.

So technically the monkey-bitch in the second picture is the harlot.

Upon reviewing my statement, and my use of the phrase painted harlot; balanced against my discriminating tastes, and the aesthetic endowments of the focus of my carnal interests... Any technicality realized by your own assumptions, are purely illusionary.

High End Monkeys, not just for Vegas arm candy anymore...

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by moonchild
Then as you advance you can have more latitude in your research, for exemple my last research project was an attemps to integrate the teachings of aleister crowley, oriental philosophy, yoga and the kaballah. Was pretty fun to make and even funnier to read it out loud in the lodge.

interesting. Is your Rite Thelemic?

''And the name of the law is Thelema''.

Thelema is the name given to the system of Magick and Yoga as put forth by Aleister Crowley (1875-1947 e.v.). A Mystic, mountaineer and poet, Crowley is perhaps best known as the most notorious Magician of the 20th century e.v. He was recently voted the 73rd Greatest Briton in a nationwide poll in the U.K., and his portrait may be found in the National Portrait Gallery in Central London on permanent display.

Memphis-Misraim is not a thelemic rite. My grand master chooses to Incorporate the thelemic teachings along those of the ''regular' Masonry. We have two kinds of lodges. A regular Lodge, once avery month, where we do classic masonic rituals. Then we have a regular non-masonic meeting evey month also, in our temple, withouth the masonic apparel but with black robes instead, and we do saturnian, enochian and crowleyan stuff, meditations, mantras, conscious breathing exercises and so on. We try not to mix both systems together too much.

Originally posted by moonchild
Memphis-Misraim is not a thelemic rite. My grand master chooses to Incorporate the thelemic teachings along those of the ''regular' Masonry. We have two kinds of lodges. A regular Lodge, once avery month, where we do classic masonic rituals. Then we have a regular non-masonic meeting evey month also, in our temple, withouth the masonic apparel but with black robes instead, and we do saturnian, enochian and crowleyan stuff, meditations, mantras, conscious breathing exercises and so on. We try not to mix both systems together too much.

It may not be Thelemic, but what you are practicing sure as heck isn't FREEMASONRY. :shk:

Originally posted by sebatwerk
It may not be Thelemic, but what you are practicing sure as heck isn't FREEMASONRY. :shk:

And what the hell would you know about this? Masonry is a lot broader than what you think it is. There is a lot of masonic bodies and institutions on this planet. Im seriously wondering where you got the idea that YOU were practicing the REAL masonry while dismissing all the other rites. Masonry is far more than your rite alone. Either you are uninformed or willingly ignorant. I will let you know that our masonic rituals will be exactly perfectly similars to yours. We do our ''weird strange occult stuff'' in separated instances. This attitude youre having toward me is actually anti masonic because masonry preaches acceptance and tolerance. Your ego is a lot larger than your actual knowledge

And let me tell you this. You guys (masonic posers like you) are the laughing stock of the occult world. you are considered like furniture in a lodge. and the fact that you got your 32nd degree immedialty after the blue lodges just confirm this. You guys are into masonry just for the pleasure of parading into your lambskin and white gloves. You dont know CRAP about what masonry really is. It is WAY MORE than just the boring theory on symbols and hiram and solomon etc etc. You actually managed to turn an institution that was filled with crazy possibilities and openness into a closed cirle of conservatism and denial of what it originally was. Very sad in my opinion. A TRUE mason would be glad to meet a brother from a different rite than his own, because he would be happy to grind theories and idea with him. He would actually learn out of it. The only thing youve been doing with me since i got here is dissing me and deny what i do. not only that is lame, it shows that you are far from mastering the values taught by masonry. well, im not surprised at all, since you actually did 4 degrees out of 32, and you are proud of it!!!

WAKE UP BUDDY. masonry is way more than just the scottish rite. Either you are ignorant, or you are brainwashed by your allegiance to one rite out of all those out there. The ''recognition'' thing is pure BS. all masons under the sun belong to the same order and brotherhood and will go to the same celestial lodge when they pass out.

If all those ''great masons'' (beethoven etc) that you quote so often would actually get to meet you, they would laught at you for your miserable and closed minded attitude of yours.

now please will you shut up already with that garbage coming out of your mouth?