The Muslim Quran hates Christians!

It's a simple truth. The writings in the Quran are very clear and all those who hold true to those writings should, if they choose to follow Allah's will, obey them. Now some may say that there are many non-violent Muslims who believe in the Quran and this is true, to a point. You see, many Muslims are not familiar with the Quran as are most Christians not familiar with their Bible. They are liberal in their belief towards the Quran and do not take it to seriously.

The difference is this, When a Christian becomes a fundamentalist and is serious about his Bible he is commanded to live a life of charity and peace towards those who do not believe as he or she does.

The same cannot be said concerning fundamentalists followers of the Quran. Their teachings are straight forward and very clear. Convert the Christian, Jew or Heathen. If they will not be converted then they must submit. If they will not submit they must be killed.

The true followers of the Quran are not live and let live worshippers.

You don't believe me?

Then go to this link and see for yourself!

www.learnthebible.org...


Machine

It's pretty nice to have stuff interpreted and pre-digested for you:

[4:171] O people of the Scripture (Jews and
Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your
religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth.
The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary),
was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His
Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on
Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him;
so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not:
"Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you.
For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be
to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To
Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all
that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient
as a Disposer of affairs.

And there's quite a few similarly posted.

Now although I haven't read the Qu'ran, from what I remember of various quotes that I have seen around the internet, I don't think they used a bunch of parenthetical statements. I could be wrong; if they did fill it with that many parenthesis they really need to get a new editor though. I'm definitely not following a religion who is constantly speaking aside like that...

It's pretty easy to take any work, religious or other wise, and fill in your own explanatory text for interpretation. Here, we can easily see how the Bible promotes homosexuality:

Ps. 23:
Yea, tho I walk (nakedly amongst my fellow men) through the valley of the Shadow of Death (caused by bigotry and racism), I will fear no evil (because gay is great.)

Here we can easily see how the Bible promotes racism:

Ps. 23:
Yea, tho I walk (with my racial brethren) through the valley of the Shadow of (the) Death (we bring to those who have a different skin color), I will fear no evil (bestown by those who are not like me).

And my personal favorite, we can see how the Bible views Microsoft:

Ps. 23:
Yea, tho I walk (to my monopolized desktop idol) through the valley of (endless hardware that is no longer supported, blocking the sun like) the Shadow of Death (in the shape of a large Apple), I will fear no evil (for I have the power of the almighty Gates on my side)

Now, you said these statements were clear. Here's that same quote as above from a different site (etext.virginia.edu...):

"4.171": O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

The chapter the quote from is at this page. While there are still minor parenthetical comments, I think they might be considered a little less convoluting of the rest of the text. From what I can see, all that it says against Christianity is that Jesus was an apostle, not God. There's plenty of non-muslims who think that, and not from religious teachings.

But thinking it only said that wouldn't make muslims quite as evil as we'd like them to be, would it?

The parenthesis found in these Quran scriptures accurately capture the meaning of the words used. You don’t have to take my word for it, just take the explanatory parenthesis out and read them for yourself! Better yet, ask a believing Muslim what he thinks they mean.

Anyone who reads your parenthetical quotes concerning the Bible can see them for what they are. A horribly inaccurate, made up description of the plain words set before you and not at all pertaining to the text itself.

The Quran says what it says, like it or not it’s straight forward and direct.

Originally posted by Machine
The parenthesis found in these Quran scriptures accurately capture the meaning of the words used.

Not in my opinion. In fact, just from the example I used, the fact that it states "(Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah" it looses any sense of objectivity in my book. The text that I bolded does little more than show the interpreter's obvious bias against Islam, by making it sound as though being a Messenger of Allah is a trivial thing. It has a bad connotation to it, and any objective interpretation would not try and draw out emotions from the text. Drawing emotional responses is the lifeblood of preachers and marketers (same thing, one's just trying to get money while the other's going after your soul), and does not give any creedence to a statement like "Muslims hate christians".

It's always open to interpretation, and the site that I linked to with the quote that I used seems to do a much better job of letting the reader interpret it as they wish--no commentary whatsoever. If you need your opinions given to you, then fine; I can think for myself when it comes to religion.

You don’t have to take my word for it, just take the explanatory parenthesis out and read them for yourself!

I gave you a perfectly good translation of the quote without the parenthesis. I would've taken them out of the original quote from that site you linked to, but whoever designed that site did not do a very good job of making it copy/paste friendly. You don't have to post it here, but copy it from there yourself, paste it into notepad, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I prefer to maintain some reasonable formatting in my posts, and that would've taken a lot more time than it's worth.

Better yet, ask a believing Muslim what he thinks they mean.

Okay, I'm sure there's some believing Muslims on this site. Would any of you care to post your personal interpretations of this quote to show how it matches up to what that site claims?

Anyone who reads your parenthetical quotes concerning the Bible can see them for what they are. A horribly inaccurate, made up description of the plain words set before you and not at all pertaining to the text itself.

And that's exactly what I was trying to say about the quotes you used.

The Quran says what it says, like it or not it’s straight forward and direct.

Yes it does, and it is, and to me it says essentially the same thing that a lot of Biblical text states: there is no God but this one, anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. In that respect, the Qu'ran is still a religious text, and it's trying to convince everyone that it's the "right" one.

It may have little tolerance for Christians, but even if that is strictly towards Christians, it's primarily because Christianity was becoming more and more popular during the time the Qu'ran was written. Christianity has always been the "rival" religion for Islam (as far as in believer-population competition) and if you're going to try and convince people that you're right, you're going to show them that they're wrong and unworthy unless they follow your beliefs. That's the first lesson in Marketing of Religion 101.

MCory1,

I noticed that you neglected to cut and paste any of the other quotes from the Quran located on the link that I posted, why is that? I’ll again ask anyone who is interested in this topic to go to the link I posted and read all of the quotes listed. MCory1 decided to only post the first quote which in and of itself does not support my argument that the Quran hates Christians. The quotes from the link posted, when taken as a whole, definitely show a hateful bias against Christians and give believers in the Quran license to persecute Christians, Jews and non-believers.

MCory1
Not in my opinion. In fact, just from the example I used, the fact that it states "(Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah" it looses any sense of objectivity in my book. The text that I bolded does little more than show the interpreter's obvious bias against Islam, by making it sound as though being a Messenger of Allah is a trivial thing.

This first quote does not fully support my accusation against the Quran. It does however, begin to lay out the foundation of belief that the Quran holds concerning Christianity. They do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. MCory1, if this was the only quote on that link concerning Christianity I would never have made the statement that the Quran hates Christians. Go back to the link and read the other quotes then come in here and try to play nice with the Quran. Anyone who objectively reads all of the quotes listed will come to the same conclusion that I have.

The Quran gives license to hate and persecute Christians, Jews and non-believers, period.


Machine

I took the first quote because it was the one my cursor was closest to as I was replying. I didn't copy any of the other quotes from there because a) I was trying to keep my post relatively short by avoiding overquoting, and b) the rest of them had even more detailed and biased editorial comments embedded in them. As I said, I would rather make my own judgement based on unedited text than have someone hold my hand and drag me through their beliefs. I don't mind having an opinion thrown in there, but after the quote and not in the middle of it.

The fact is that fundamentalist Christians are "harmless as doves" [Math 10:16]. Many millions live in this country and they are active in charity work and the ministry. Notice that the Words of our God restrain our violent tendencies and "guide our feet into the way of peace" [Luke 1:79]. To the contrary, fundamentalist Islamics are often extremely violent, and one need look no further than the Quran for the explanation.

This is a quote from a few paragraphs after the Qu'ran quotes, emphasis mine. While I agree that fundamentalist and extremist muslims can be exceptionally violent, there have been many fundamentalist Christians who feel that they are serving their religion by ridding the world of abortion clinics, homosexuals, and other notions contrary to their faith. For almost 200 years fundamentalist Christians sanctioned wars against non-Christians, specifically muslims, during the Crusades (more info here). In the 1692, fundamentalist Christians executed 20 people as witches, while four others died in prison (more info here). , while between 1450 and 1750, England executed between 40,000 to 60,000 people as witches. And from 1184 through 1834 the Roman Church--how much more fundamental can you get?--declared open season on heretics through various inquisitions. The most famous of these is the Spanish Inquisition of course, which had a resultant death toll of anywhere between 1,200-135,00 depending on who's doing the statistics.

Between the lack of any attempt at an objective interpretation, the blatant tilt being put on the quotes by that site, and just that one line alone regarding the lack of violence by fundamentalist Christians, I'd say they're attempt at convincing me muslims are evil--because everyone who hates Christians are evil, right?--is failing miserably.

Originally posted by MCory1


Okay, I'm sure there's some believing Muslims on this site. Would any of you care to post your personal interpretations of this quote to show how it matches up to what that site claims?

ehem, if I may .....

First, whoever wrote that nice little summary on that site is completely unaware of a VERY BASIC thing regarding Qur'an, and I am talking about an extremely basic thing that has eluded the "educated" expert:
the "We" in Qur'an means "God", not "Muslims".
Qur'an is a book sent from God and he speaks through it. In arabic language when a person of high social status speaks of himself, they sometimes use "we" instead of "I", and since God is the Most High, Almighty, he refers to himself throughout the Qur'an as "We". There are also verses where he clearly says "I" and on several occasions "We" means God+angels.

Most of those claims made on that site talk about muslim this, muslim that when there is "we" in the verse, and that is wrong.

So, next. The difference in belief between Christians and Muslims does not mean they automaticaly hate eachother.
The quotes from the Qur'an that talk about how Jesus is not Son of God, that there is no Trinity, that is not hate, that is difference of opinion.

Another thing one should know about Islam is that the way to Paradise is not only through faith in God, but through good deeds, meaning faith alone won't get you far. This also allows non-muslims a place in paradise as long as they were good people.

Each time period in history had its own prophets and laws.
Qur'an states that each group is to rule according to their holy book and that there should not be any forceful conversion. God wanted diversity, so we are NOT allowed to change that, to do contrary to God's will.

The relevant verses:

(5:44) We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.

(5:46) Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

(5:47) The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

(5:48) Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.


There is a clear difference between laws and rites regarding society that are described in Holy Books and the basic beliefs of each religions throughout the Qur'an.
While there is a dispute regarding the belief (example is Jesus the Son of God or not), it is still God's will that each group applies the laws of their Holy Book despite the alleged corruption of those (probably because they are ALL basicaly versions of the Ten Commandments). The final judgement of souls is then in God's hands.

MCory1
For almost 200 years fundamentalist Christians sanctioned wars against non-Christians, specifically muslims, during the Crusades (more info here). In the 1692, fundamentalist Christians executed 20 people as witches, while four others died in prison (more info here). , while between 1450 and 1750, England executed between 40,000 to 60,000 people as witches. And from 1184 through 1834 the Roman Church--how much more fundamental can you get?--declared open season on heretics through various inquisitions. The most famous of these is the Spanish Inquisition of course, which had a resultant death toll of anywhere between 1,200-135,00 depending on who's doing the statistics.

I’m not a Roman Catholic and I do not accept their teachings as biblical. Furthermore, I believe the Catholic Church is corrupt and continues to exist as a perversion of true Christianity to this very day. I trace my spiritual heritage back to the first Christians who gathered together to worship the Lord in truth. These very Christians bore the brunt of Roman persecution and were killed by the thousands and hundreds of thousands for professing their faith in Jesus Christ as God.

This carnage of bloodshed did not end when Rome became, “Christian” and the Catholic Church began to take form. I often hear people wrongly assert that Christians killed thousands under the banner of Roman Catholicism. Let me be frank with you, Roman Catholics are not Christians, they are Roman Catholics and they accept many false teachings and heretical lies.

Christians did not kill Muslims in the crusades they were to busy running and hiding from the Catholics. You see friend, it was the true Christians who denounced Roman Catholicism that were in the hottest water. They were rounded up by the millions and tortured to death in far greater numbers than any other class of people. This is a history lesson that many could use today.

It seems common for those ignorant of history to lump the true Christians in with the heretical Roman Catholics and claim that we bear the spiritual heritage of Rome’s wickedness.

For the record, I despise Roman Catholicism and denounce it for the evil that it still is to this day.


Machine

duncha know that there moslem book teaches hate unlike good ol' fashion bible learnin' which never taught no daggum hatin' ways* PRAISE JESUS!


*crusades omitted





[edit on 11-8-2005 by Lysergic]

Agree with you about the RCC. Their history is unknown by the bulk of RCC members themselves. Same could be said about many who claim the name of Jesus the Christ for remission of sins.
I have learned much of what you speak concerning the line of God's Church from John Foxxe and his Book of Martyrs. This was a very intreasting read. Not only persecutions by the RCC but the Anglicans, and Lutherans too.
Was also very intrested to learn things about the RCC kept out of most history books like..they had a house of prostitution in the 900s AD for servicing exclusively the Priesthood. This bit of history totally astonished me to learn. I had never heard or read any such thing before.

I am what is called Olde School.

Thanks,
Orangetom

While most on these boards like to bash christians by the very poor example of the crusades..they totally ignore the bigger picture of history and events.
First off the Crusades are no where authorized as conduct for a New Testament church. Neither is a inquesition. No where is this authorized or mentioned as conduct favorable for a New Testament church.

Also ignored by the bulk of bashers in these boards is the fact that the Muslims were invading Europe in the late 600s AD and were stopped in Tours , France by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours. This is some 300 years before the Crusades. I am sure that the muslims were going across Europe under Geneva Convention Rules.
Suggest some of you look up the Battle of Tours as it can be found on the web.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Machine
It's a simple truth. The writings in the Quran are very clear and all those who hold true to those writings should, if they choose to follow Allah's will, obey them. Now some may say that there are many non-violent Muslims who believe in the Quran and this is true, to a point. You see, many Muslims are not familiar with the Quran as are most Christians not familiar with their Bible. They are liberal in their belief towards the Quran and do not take it to seriously.

The difference is this, When a Christian becomes a fundamentalist and is serious about his Bible he is commanded to live a life of charity and peace towards those who do not believe as he or she does.

The same cannot be said concerning fundamentalists followers of the Quran. Their teachings are straight forward and very clear. Convert the Christian, Jew or Heathen. If they will not be converted then they must submit. If they will not submit they must be killed.

The true followers of the Quran are not live and let live worshippers.

You don't believe me?

Then go to this link and see for yourself!

www.learnthebible.org...


Machine

marketing religion 101.....


and how accurate are these interpretations? how could a christian interpret the Quran? Of course it would be biased and anti islamic....get off your high horse and stop trying to sell your religion. people can believe in what they want, if they see one religion as more desirable then another then they'll change to it....im sick and tired of islam bashing on this board...deny ignorance, dont accept it..

It never ceases to amaze me when I see people come to the rescue of Islam. Or any other religion for that matter.

...Any religion except Christianity.

Interesting indeed.


Machine