Kabbalah = Sorcery

Numbers and numerology are frounded upon by the Hebrerw God. They are however a important part of the mystery religions. This too is known.
The mystery religions..the very fingerprint of what the Hebrews were told not to engage in. To not do what the nations surrounding them did. To not do as the people in the land their God had given them were doing. They were to have faith in their God not numbers. Same thing with Christians today. In faith believing not in numbers. This is known information.

You are correct when you say that many of the Ancient languages numbers were also letters. Quite correct. Among the scholars this is known. Not known so much by lay persons. The Hebrews knew that each sentance of the Hebrew scriptures had a certain number of letters in them hence a certain count. This is a type of spell check long before computers. This is how the Hebrews were able to faithfully preserve the word..though they were disobedient in many other practices. Each sentence was to add up to a certain known number ..if it didn't they went back to find the problem/problems.
Nevertheless the practice of numerology in the style of the mystery religions was forbidden. They were to follow the prophets that God sent to them ..instead they often killed them because they were warning the Hebrews ..particularly the leadership not to do the things they had come to love. It was clearly dangerous to be a prophet of God in those times. You were not likely to live long.
This is known information Seraphim Serpente. That of which I speak is narrow..not wide. The way of the Hebrew God is Narrow not wide and to show that they did not belong to the traditions of men as in the nations surrounding them. In their manner of dress, the way they prepared thier food..the very food they ate. The manner in which they gleaned their fields etc etc. It was all very narrowly defined.
It most certainly did not include the numbering systems which were later to become the Kaballah.

Also Seraphim Serpente...name calling and labeling is precisely that of which I spoke in a previous post on this thread. It is a clear sign of academia today. Intelligentsia and tolerance also. Congratulations on making and confirming the point. Well done.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Seraphim Serpente

Give me the name of the god of the wide path ..the broad way. By name . Give me his name please?????


Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by checkers

Sorcerers, witches, alchemists, Satanists, Kabbalahists all seem to deal with manipulating physics.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by checkers]

Manipulating Physics????

Matthew 17:20b, ff:

So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for amen, I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there," and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you . . ."

Other than the source, manipulating "physics" applies in both cases. So the problem must not be in "changing the world for our own benefit," but how you get the job done, and upon whom you rely.

Looking at the New Testament word for magic, the actual greek terms are pharmakia (pharmaceuticals, i.e. mind altering drugs and loss of responsibility)

In the old Testament (Hebrew Bible) the proscribed acts are forcasting the future (divination), and "channeling," i.e., the "Mutterings of wizards" mentioned in the King James Version. Again, the danger is that the medium doesn't really know who is being channeled.


Is astrology ALWAYS about divination?

What about in Judges 5:20, where Deborah, the Lord's judge says that her general's victory was influenced by astrology:

"They fought from the heavens; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera."

Or what about the "Wise men" from the East, in Matthew 2:2

"saying, "Where is he who has been born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the East (literally: "in the sunrise) and have come to worship him?"

*****

I'm not saying that I'm a support of astrology as it is practiced by the secular world. Certainly, a lot of "occult" practices open people up to harmful forces. But broadsides against whole fields of thought, just because you haven't bothered to study them, merely alienates the people you are trying to talk to.

Certainly, the Bible is complex enough that it ought to be used carefully when searching for conclusions about how we ought to behave.

Remember in Matthew 4:6, when Satan wants to tempt Jesus--how does he do it? by quoting scripture

As W. Shakespeare says in the "Merchant of Venice:"

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul, producing holy witness,
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!

Quote: "Numbers and Numerology are frowned upon by the Hebrew God."


Again - Speak for yourself!!! MY GOD has given me *FREE WILL*!!!

Anyhow who says that the "Christian God" is the same as the "Hebrew God"!!!

No doubt you follow the "Hebrew God" - even though you are NOT a Hebrew - can NOT Read, Write, Speak or Understand Hebrew & probably (Ironically) call yourself a "Christian"!!!

In that case you should read the *CHRISTIAN Scriptures* again - a little more carefully this time!
New Covenant & all that! Jesus was Controversial for a REASON!!!

I view Hebrew as I view any other Language - as a TOOL to be Used & Mastered! I am personally not a "Hebrew" or a "Jew". I am a Lover of Wisdom & Knowledge however!


[edit on 15-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

You posted:

"Speak for yourself you Closed Minded Know Nothing Buffoon! "

No problems Serahpim Serpente. Give me the name of the god of open mindedness?? by name..what is his name???

I know the hebrew God as well as the Christian God are of the Narrow way...who is the god of the broad open minded way??? By name?? What is his name??? Numerology and all ..Kaballah and all??? What is his name??

Thanks,
Orangetom

You are correct in this too:

"Again - Speak for yourself!!! MY GOD has given me *FREE WILL*!!! "

Quite correct. For we know what happened to God's people whenever they practiced their free will instead of God's way. King David is a classic example though God did not break faith with him ..God did punnish David severely for his disobedience.
We also see in Kings and Chronicles what the later Kings of Israel and Juda did in free will. Not all but many of them.


Give me the name of the god of free will???? The broad way in stead of the narrow way ..as outlined in the New and Olde Testaments.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Cug

This is a case of not knowing your basic math.

Some of the things you should know. This type of book is not as old as they claim, most are from the Medieval age and later. They did this because basically it was OK to research or translate profane texts, but if you wrote one, you would be punished by the church. Remember what happened to Galileo?

Second these old books also have what is called Blinds in them. They are normally false or missleading or just symbolic things that if you were "in the know" you would be able to figure out what it really means. It was a way to keep someone from trying something before they were ready. It could also be used as another way to keep from being called a heretic. Ok, After reading your post here, which I feel was good advice, I seen you on another thread an caught up with some of this....Thelemic
Now I found alot of things in here, which lead me to other places, I`m just a little confused about Crowley!( he is kinda scares me) so yes I think I have found something that I had not study before. and yes, I have my blinders off.

I have learned alot from your post! keep up the good battle here
If I can just get this ATS stuff down, theres so much to learn here, an so much knowledge here. If it was not for people like you I wouldnt have gotten as far as I have.

Chasrac64....

I wouldn't get involved in the book your looking into.......
You will regret it...I'm not kidding!

Who is a father of all lies?

Think about it.

helen

Originally posted by helen670
Who is a father of all lies?

That'd be either Bush, or Clinton... I'm not too certain who was higher in the ranks

Yes yes, Satan, the Great Evil, the Deceiver, blah blah blah... also known as the Angel of Light, the Bringer of Fire, the Angel of Music...

And since Satan, Lucifer, whomever, can only do or work within the guidelines passed down from most high, wouldn't that then stand to reason that that is what he was told to do or how to act?

Kabalists, like many other religions or beliefs, see a duality, a balance, between light and dark. Can't have one without the other...

"All paths lead onto me, for I am known by many names".

Everything created by God is a part of him, correct? We, too, have a touch of the divine within us. Same with Lucifer.

*GASP*

But that, I know with great certainty, is on a different thread...

But anyway. Since God created Satan, and Satan does what God needs of him, then, by default, the lies ushered by Satan come directly from God. God, afterall, sure does love to test his subjects, doesn't he?

Originally posted by helen670
Chasrac64....

I wouldn't get involved in the book your looking into.......
You will regret it...I'm not kidding!

Who is a father of all lies?

Think about it.

helen

Helen, I got this book, and its very complex to me. I am open to views on both sides here.
I have been coming into the knowledge of truth now for about 4 yrs, not long compare to some on here.
I don`t think you would understand this. The book itself has alot of good things in it too. I need to study a few more areas before reading this book any further.
If I told you who I thought the father of lies were, you wouldnt believe me or understand anyways so I will keep my opinion to myself on this subject. I may offend a few people as far as there beliefs and I am not going to do this anymore. Its a no win argument.
I know what I am searching for. but for me to try an explain to you, well thats not going to work.
Dont worry, Its all good!!!!

What is sorcery? I'll tell you what sorcery is, its a word used by the church so they could use it as an excuse to kill people. Its a word used by fools.

Do you seriously (oh studious student of God) believe that someone spouting sorcery has power over you? Has the power to bend God's Laws? I know 'god-fearing' people who have no idea what sorcery is who can do both! The President of The United States for one, The Pope for another. You should concern yourself with evil where it is due, not where it is sought but unfound.

Plucketh out the mote within our own eyes before grabbing at the planks stuck within anothers eye.

orangetom1999 - thanks for giving us all a good example of the term
"SLAVE" Mentality! It is Obvious that you Worship God out of *FEAR*!
So please don't Lecture me - you don't have any Credentials to do so - you Literal Interpreter, Pretend,
Make Believe "Christian"!


Duality indeed! Now let me quote the Old Testament shall I:

"I form Light and Create Darkness: I make
Peace and Create Evil: I the Lord YahVeh
do all these things." -Isaiah 45:7

A Wise Man once said:

"Kabalists say, the True Name of Satan is that of YahVeh Reversed; for Satan... is but the Negation of God."

I do agree!

***I FEAR NOTHING***!!!

I have *LOVE* in my Heart!!! My GOD is the GOD of *LOVE & LIGHT*!
I have access to GOD through CHRIST! I am a *REAL* "CHRIST"-ian!

"Jesus said, "If those who Lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the Sky,' then the Birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the Sea,' then the Fish will precede you. Rather the
*Kingdom is Inside of You* and it is outside of you. When you come to *Know YourSelves* then you will become known and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the *Living Father*. But if you will Not Know Yourselves, you dwell in Poverty and it is you who ARE that Poverty."

-Gospel of Thomas


[edit on 23-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 23-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Quote: "The workings of the Kaballah is just such an Abomination...as is the Talmud... Jesus never taught from the Talmud...

nor did he ever teach from the bible.

But he did say , "The Law is the Living Word of the Living God. God did not write the Law in Books but in your HEART".
- Gospel of the Essenes

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by Chasrac64
But it was the Black magic part that threw me off . I kinda thought to myself, " well this can not be a good thing"

Well contrary to popular opinion, Black in this case is just a word. There must be dozens of definitions of "Black Magick" some say Magick is only black if you have evil intentions, and white if you have good intentions. Others say White Magick is used for enlightenment, and everything else is called Black. But in the end Magick is neutral, it's just a thing. For example electricity is good when you power your computer with it, but it's bad when a lighting bolt kills someone.

In the end, what truly designates the usage of magic as being "white" or "black" can only be(in most cases) known by the Monad, the Being; never by the mind or the ego.

Intentions don't count for much, or anything at all, if the karmic results are disastrous.


Know the difference between Theurgy and Goetia:

Goetia Comes from an ancient word that means "howling and groaning." Goetia is the science of practical black magic. Magic is the science of influencing nature’s phenomena (internal and external). The practitioner of goetia uses magic to manipulate, harm, gain power, control, and feed desire/ego through consciously feeding the sensual mind.

Black Magic See also Goetia.

"The black magicians have their mysticism, and they always firmly believe that they walk on the good path. No black magician believes that he walks on the evil path. The path of black magic is a broad way filled with vices and pleasures." - The Revolution of Beelzebub

"Multitudes of schools of black magic exist, many of them with very venerable traditions that teach Sexual Magic with the spilling of semen. They have very beautiful theories that attract and captivate, and if the student falls in that seductive and delicious deceit, he becomes a black magician. Those black schools affirm to the four winds that they are white and that is why ignorant ones fall. Moreover, those schools talk of beauty, love, charity, wisdom, etc., etc. Naturally, in those circumstances the ignorant disciple attains the belief with firmness that such institutions are not evil and perverse. Remember good disciple, that the Abyss is full of sincerely mistaken ones and people of very good intentions..." - The Initiatic Path in the Arcana of Tarot and Kabbalah

"The intellect as the negative function of the mind is demoniacal. Everyone that enters into these studies, the first thing that they want is to dominate the mind of others. This is pure and legitimate black magic. No one has the right to violate the free will of others. No one has the right to exercise coaction upon the mind of others because this is black magic. The ones that are guilty of this grave error are all of those mistaken authors that are everywhere. All of those books of hypnotism, magnetism and suggestion are books of black magic. Whosoever does not know how to respect the free will of others is a black magician; those who perform mental works in order to violently dominate the mind of others convert themselves into perverse demons. These people separate themselves from the Innermost and they crumble into the Abyss." - The Initiatic Path in the Arcana of Tarot and Kabbalah

Theurgy From the Greek theos, "god," and ergon, "work" The action of Theos (God, the Monad). This is white magic, the influence and power that the Monad has over nature and its phenomena. This power and intelligence is exercised in many ways and can be exercised through the Bodhisattva or any particular Solar Body.

"Occult Medicine and Practical Magic"
The White Magician does not violate the Law. Whosoever performs magical works without permission of his Intimate and against the will of the Divine Hierarchies is a Black Magician who will pay his karma within the abyss.

"Occult Medicine and Practical Magic"
The Divine Rabbi from Galilee practiced the Gospel and healed the sick because he was a true Magician and Theurgist, a true God.

"Magic" comes from mag which means "priest". It signifies great power from the Divine Wisdom, the Ineffable Light, the Solar Substance which the Medic Magician manipulates in order to heal those who are ill.

When the human being fuses himself with his own Intimate, he converts himself into a God of Nature. This is why the Masters from the Mayan Ray are ineffable Gods of Nature.

Regarding Magic and/or Kabbalah, I recommend Franz Hartmann's "Magic, White and Black" or anything by Samael Aun Weor or Dion Fortune.


If anyone is interested in studying to awaken(with practice of course) to the Superior Worlds(and not the Klipoth); there are some more recommendations in my first post here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




HOTEP







[edit on 23-8-2005 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by helen670
Chasrac64....

I wouldn't get involved in the book your looking into.......
You will regret it...I'm not kidding!

Who is a father of all lies?

Think about it.

helen

I think the answer may be here

www.amazon.com...=1124843755/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-5625194-7701505?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The problem with believing in duality...

It comes when you believe that things are slightly out of balance at times, and that good arises from evil.

This NECESSITATES evil acts...

But they are well-intentioned evil acts, like 9/11!

No numerology in that one, people...
But for fun, lets write out 9 11s.
11 11 11
11 11 11
11 11 11
Nice and neat, huh? I know.
But wait, 9 11s could certainly share a vibration with some other prominent numbers? So we do the old 'occult' practice, and just change the spacing (same as how words are reversed, or letters are re-arranged, etc. keeping its 'essence' the same)
111 111
111 111
111 111
_______
333 333= 666

Like I said, designed to bring about good. But in who's eyes?

On the topic of black vs. white magic:

There is only one work and it is the great work.

To Chasrac64 about the Keys of Solomon:

I don't mean to judge, but it does not sound like you are ready to work from that tome. By all means read it, but do not practice what is contained therein until you have your Holy Gaurdian Angel standing behind you. Seriously, there is dangerous stuff in that book if you are not prepared.

Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
On the topic of black vs. white magic:

There is only one work and it is the great work.

To Chasrac64 about the Keys of Solomon:

I don't mean to judge, but it does not sound like you are ready to work from that tome. By all means read it, but do not practice what is contained therein until you have your Holy Gaurdian Angel standing behind you. Seriously, there is dangerous stuff in that book if you are not prepared.

I got the book, not really looking at any reviews, ( my bad) and when I got it, it seems so difficult to read without understanding what they are doing. I put it aside for now because there is a few things i need to research on.
I think why I got the book because there were some old mms in the British Museum,and are believed to be the actual words and instrution of King Solomon himself!
so there you have it, " In these texts, he instruts his followers on how to summon and master spiritual powers, including how to obtain answers to problems from the spirit world"
It seems to me he did magic,( or is this with a K)
It has alot about calling on Angels... I think that would be very cool!!

while I got the book out,
I got as far as the " Preface, and " Solomon the wise man" an when I get to the "table of the Planetary hours" I got lost here, these charts are hard to read.
I didnt get to beginning of Book One...LOL, well I do believe in Angels.
Maybe I should stick with Books that have to do with " Enoch"