NEWS: Rioting Erupts in Northern Ireland, Numerous Police Injured

A riot broke out in Belfast Thursday night, resulting in injuries to a number of police officers, perhaps as many as 40. The rioting started after six arrests were made in connection with three separate murders. No definitive word yet on the condition of the officers, or whether any new arrests have been made. The rioting is said to have involved several hundred people.



Well, there's not much information yet, but I think one key point deserves mention. Before I get to that it's heartening to see that there are no reports of casualties on either side.

Now, if I were the CIA, or some other random intelligence agency, and I wanted to quell armed resistance in preparation for a power grab, what would I do? Maybe arrange a little inter-gang warfare, kill folks on both sides to infuriate the rest, and let them do the dirty work for me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what's happening here.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the individuals murdered came by it honestly, and if they were in fact the violent thugs they're made out to be, then it's all perfectly natural. Live by the sword, die by the sword, no?



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To be honest, it doesn't need the CIA, or anyone else for that matter, to interfere in order for violence to start in Northern Ireleand.
The loyalist feud this is related to has been going on for a while, and just because we have heard lofty proclamations recently, I suspect this area of the world is still gonna be a tinderbox for some time to come.

Didn't want to infer that the CIA had to have something to do with it, only that it might. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Indeed, people kill each other, riot, and act foolish every day, all day, in every country of the world.

It's sorta..what people do.

I just seem to remember something about federal agents bragging how they started a gang war in LA by killing a dealer and framing another gang. Unfortunately I can't find a link right now, and besides, it's not exactly topical. In any case, the principle of warfare at work in that case was Divide and Conquer.

If there were a concerted effort to destabilize the armed resistance in that part of the country, Divide and Conquer would be the tool of choice, I'd think.

The story of the riots just brought to comparison to mind. Especially considering the developments after the initial arrests. Now the riots give even more excuse to crack down.

It will be interesting to see where things stand tommorow. The police apparently said the violence has stopped, but the area is still quite tense.

Edit: UPDATE - More info, from ABC
Link

"We faced a very violent situation that was life-threatening at times. … We had so many petrol bombs thrown at our lines, we stopped counting," said Assistant Chief Constable Wesley Wilson, who commanded the police operation.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Does anyone know if this riot might be tied to the IRA?

If so that would mean the dismantling of the barracks etc, may be stopped in view of this.

maybe this will be a wake up call for all those arrogant folks who like to blame all trouble on the US and believe every problem can be solved with communication and peace talks.

The world is a complicated place, and just because you (generalization) aren't involved in it personally and emotionally, doesn't mean people in that area don't have strong feelings and ancient hatreds as well.

You can choose to not believe that their cause or beliefs are worth dying for, or to believe nothing is worth dying for, but it is foolhardy to assume that your value system is the same as theirs. It's an extreme arrogance to build your world view around your own lack of desire for revenge or retribution and then be outraged when people react based on their own life experience and emotions rather than yours.

It's funny in America, the people who often complain loudly about America trying to spread it's value system to the world, are the ones who have been actively and subconsciously spreading their own value systems and beliefs for decades. It's sadly amusing watching the same people who (with self-congratulationg smarmy attitudes) would attend seminars with speakers about problems with women's rights in Islamic nations and raise funds and demand action to change things (some even working to foster discontent and open revolt) now rabidly fighting to defend the existing social order of these same Islamic nations simply for partisan politics. What was acceptable before is unacceptable now simply because of party alignment.

With that in mind, how can anyone fail to understand the feelings of groups in Ireland who have been violent for decades, watching family and friends fall to bombs and bullets? When there's a seething violence from people who simply were told bad things about an opposing party and the only violence they've seen is a bruising from a cop who was only returning the mob's hostility?

Both parties claim to want a less divided country, and say such things in their speeches, and it doesn't mean squat because their actions show a different desire-division being the goal. Declared IRA intentions don't mean jack until the actions change.

I often wonder who these "Loyalists" are loyal too?

They are nothing more than a bunch of thugs fighting for control of local crime.

It doesn't have anything to do with the IRA this time. It's a turf war between the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Loyalist Volunteer Force over control of the drugs trade. They are just gangsters hiding behind a front of "loyalism".

BTW, reports of the Judean Peoples Front and the Peoples Front of Judea getting involved are so far unfounded



[edit on 5-8-2005 by kegs]

LOL

And the Popular Front is right over there-Splitters!

Originally posted by kegs
It doesn't have anything to do with the IRA this time. It's a turf war between the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Loyalist Volunteer Force over control of the drugs trade. They are just gangsters hiding behind a front of "loyalism".

BTW, reports of the Judean Peoples Front and the Peoples Front of Judea getting involved are so far unfounded

[edit on 5-8-2005 by kegs]

Guys,

Let me draw your attention to a report posted in the Belfast Telegraph by a very very disillusioned police officer! I dont know if hyperlinks are allowed so i have altered the http to hxxp so cut and paste and read what someone on the front line has to say....

hxxp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/features/story.jsp?story=661594

Basically, as you will read, the problem is the hordes of people - yes you know the ones - that are utterly opposed to law and order on both the Catholic and Protestant side of the divide, have whinged and bitched for so long, about the need to reduce police (so hopefully the american's who usually interfere in the simple running of Northern Ireland will pressure the authorities to employ as police the poor downtrodden unemployed persons who used to be in jail for terrorist acts) that quite simply there aren't enough to go round. I bet you neverthought of that slant?

As we now say - the public have the police service they deserve.

I may sound bitter but i have a unique insight. Imagine the scenario - poor Sammy or Brendan, spends his day throwing rocks, bricks, petrol bombs and even for good measure, a few 9mm bullets at the police. What a good day had by all - but what's this? his car has had a window smashed.... who does he call - yes thats correct, the police. Who does he condemn for the slow response due to the numbers injured and the simple lack of personnel to call out? the Police.

There is a war out there and its going on below the noses of every major world leader who likes to be seen as a neutral. There is a war that cannot be fought against because of the lack of "balls" at the top of the ladder, brought on by fear and condemnation by the people who hate the police. Auntie Nuala loves to small the scent of a police officer caught in her departments sights. Shots are fired at police and military personnel. Bullets are lodged in the armour of a vehicle. People in fear of their lives return fire. Whats the first cry??? " thats heavy handed!" Who is the first person to launch an investigation? The Police Ombudsman.

In england, a poor police officer was stabbed by a muslim terrorist who had been arrested. The nations reply - sympathy. In Northern Ireland, a police officer gets smashed on the head by a rock - what do we hear? silence.

We are part of the united Kingdom and as such, we need the people to get behind us as much as we got nehind Her Majesties forces in their wars. We need the people in power to allow the shackles to be taken off the police and let them go out and arrest people for crimes, not pacify the leaders of organisations by asking their permission. What we need is for people who are arrested for a crime be tried and convicted. We need a system that doesn't allow the criminal to say "yes i did it" but get off on a technicality due to some officer not handcuffing him to the front. Its true people. The lawyers admits the offence but argue on technicalities. Human rights they call it. Human Wrongs i see it.

Basically, the Law is an ass and the powers that be need to wake up and work with the senior police to sort out the abortion that my country has become.

Mac.

Exactly, markmac, you've hit the nail on the head. Let's get rid of human rights everywhere: that'll solve ALL of our problems.

Not.

What is Democracy?


[Forgive me Wyrdeone, a bit of shameless self-promotion, albeit on topic. Great thread BTW.]

Allright! :-) i admit - i was a wee bit OTT with the human rights, but honestly, some of them are so over the top that i just flip! Would you believe that the water cannon's used by the police have to have the water at an "ambient temperature" in case the water is too cold (human right 3 - prohibition of torture). Doesn't matter that there's a petrol bomb in some dudes hand that will potentially kill a person if a direct hit is scored. I just think that the Human Rights lawyers need to radically address the bar level. It needs raised, way up in times of trouble. Never mind cold water to pack the rioters up, why not a dye added to the water so we can see for days who has been involved. But thats not allowed either - yes, you guessed right, covered by the same human right - degrading treatment. Honestly guys and gals, is it any wonder i have applied to Canada to Immigrate.
I'm not a bad person, really......... lol