TA-INDIVIDUALS: London Bombing Mastermind Captured in Cairo

Originally posted by Odium

As for what to do with Terrorists?

Why not target the problem that helps to breed terrorism?

When someone has cancer, do you treat the disease or the symptoms?

Odium,

Since the problem lies within their religous thinking/beliefs; just how do you propose targeting the problem?

Originally posted by shots
Since the problem lies within their religous thinking/beliefs; just how do you propose targeting the problem?

No it doesnt. Thats the same as claiming its Christianity's fault that Anti-abortion extremists bomb abortion clinics. Or that Catholicism is responsible for paedophile clergy.

It's unfair to target muslims as a whole or claim that its their religion that is the cause/root of terrorism. Look at the roots of modern terrorism, it was the Zionists that created modern terrorism with the bombing of the King David hotel in the 1940's.

Hitler did the same thing with the Jews, he played on the populations insecurities and down right hatred of the apparently wealthy Jewish component of their country. He capitalized on this hatred to errect a common enemy and the hatred he fostered allowed for their attempted extermination.

We've already seen people advocating that we should "nuke" the lot of them. The parallels between American/British societies and Germany of the 1930's is astonishing to say the least.

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by shots
Since the problem lies within their religous thinking/beliefs; just how do you propose targeting the problem?

No it doesnt. Thats the same as claiming its Christianity's fault that Anti-abortion extremists bomb abortion clinics. Or that Catholicism is responsible for paedophile clergy.

I think you are missing my point here.

They meaning the fantics are saying it is the koran that gives them the authority and makes it right in their eyes. I am not saying it is right but as I understand it the koran states a jihad is ok when in the eyes of humanity it is not.

Your analogy is like comparing apples to oranges, I might add. There is a big difference between killing one or two people and thousands. Also the bible does not say it is ok to kill people nor does it state it is ok to have sex with kids.

Originally posted by shots
Your analogy is like comparing apples to oranges, I might add. There is a big difference between killing one or two people and thousands.

Personally, I see no difference. Killing is killing. I think numbers are irrelevent. Loss of life is the same, the only difference is the amount of people affected.

Also the bible does not say it is ok to kill people

You better read the Old Testement.

nor does it state it is ok to have sex with kids.

I'll give you that one.

The Koran also says that to murder a human being is to kill all of mankind.

What about an eye for an eye? What a gem that is from the Bible. How nice it would be to just arbitrarily wipe out 3,000 muslims for what "they" did in the name of Islam. Oh wait, we did that - and then some.

There is no justification for terrorism in the Koran. Regardless of what the media says. From first hand experience of my life long muslim friends I can assure you that the Koran does not advocate murder of any one. Much like we dont allow stoning for adultery or death for soddomy. To say that we still do, because the Bible says so is not accurate and unfair on Christians.

Edit: Found the exact Koranic quote

"...whoever killed a single human being... it is as if he has killed all mankind and whoever saves the life of one it is as if he has saved all mankind" [Koran 5:32]

What does Islam Say about Terrorism?

[edit on 15/7/05 by subz]

Jihad (in Arabic, "struggle") is a central duty of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. Many passages of the Qur'an and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad are used by jihad warriors today to justify their actions and gain new recruits. No major Muslim group has ever repudiated the doctrines of armed jihad. The theology of jihad, which denies unbelievers equality of human rights and dignity, is available today for anyone with the will and means to bring it to life.


jihadwatch.org...

Ithink you get my point they are using the Qur'an to justify their actions, which is the point I was trying to make.

[edit on 7/15/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by subz

There is no justification for terrorism in the Koran.

Well obviously some muslims think different. See my post above

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by subz

There is no justification for terrorism in the Koran.

Well obviously some muslims think different. See my post above

You're right, I did misinterpret what you originally said. But I think the answer lies in what you wrote:

Originally posted by shots
Since the problem lies within their religous thinking/beliefs; just how do you propose targeting the problem?

What do I propose? I propose that the individuals with warped beliefs be targeted instead of muslims et al.

[edit on 15/7/05 by subz]

Originally posted by shots
Since the problem lies within their religous thinking/beliefs; just how do you propose targeting the problem?

I'll take a shot at this. You need to attack the belief system and make their actions seem odius. Make them look childish. You need to embarass them in the eyes of their supporters.

Heavy duty psyops and the support of the muslim community. If they don't look like heroes and martyrs, if instead they look like cowards and fools, then the tide will turn against them.

Originally posted by subz
What do I propose? I propose that the individuals with warped beliefs be targeted instead of muslims et al.

[edit on 15/7/05 by subz]

Which is easier said then done. Now if the majority of the clerics would condem their actions, I would agree with you.

I guess you can say man kind is caught between a rock and a hard place here. You are darned if you do and darned if you do not simply because they will call you a bigot for speaking out against their religous beliefs.

Do not get me wrong, I agree with what you say, but do not think it can be done as simply as you think.

Originally posted by jsobecky

I'll take a shot at this. You need to attack the belief system and make their actions seem odius. Make them look childish. You need to embarass them in the eyes of their supporters.

Heavy duty psyops and the support of the muslim community. If they don't look like heroes and martyrs, if instead they look like cowards and fools, then the tide will turn against them.

I wish it would be just that simple, however if you attack their beliefs you are attacking the whole religion for the actions of a few fanatics and that is wrong.

Dont attack their belief (Islam). Attack their interpretation of Islam i.e. violence, murder and destruction. Do the attacking through the courts by charging them with conspiracy to commit murder, treason or racial/religious hatred. You dont need a single muslim cleric to say a thing to do the above. You just need to utilize the single most under-used resource of the War on Terror - our courts.

Originally posted by subz
Dont attack their belief (Islam). Attack their interpretation of Islam i.e. violence, murder and destruction. Do the attacking through the courts by charging them with conspiracy to commit murder, treason or racial/religious hatred. You dont need a single muslim cleric to say a thing to do the above. You just need to utilize the single most under-used resource of the War on Terror - our courts.

And no doubt their lawyers will argue in court that you are being a bigot for punishing them for their beliefs.

Now if the majority of clerics would stand up and speak out against their misinterpretations that would change things big time. Someone has to tell them were they are wrong is what I am getting at. Here again I am talking fanatics only not Muslims in general.

Keep in mind this so called Chemist just started to think the way he did in the past year or so based on the misguided teachings of a few.

Originally posted by shotsWhich is easier said then done. Now if the majority of the clerics would condem their actions, I would agree with you.

Do you have a list of all muslim clerics which you check off as to who condemned the actions, in order for you to suggest the majority does not do so? Please offer it of you do.

You are a product of: 1) The news offered by Western media and 2) the news you choose to read.

The fact is, Muslim clerics have long been denouncing these acts, but you seem to have taken the stance that those who preach their vile are insread and in fact, the majority.

Sun Jul 10,12:51 PM ET
LONDON (AFP) - Senior British Muslim, Christian and Jewish clerics pledged together to resist and overcome the "evil of terrorism" as they denounced the London terror bombings, suspected to have been carried out by Islamic militants.

Muslim leader Sheikh Zaki Badawi said the clerics united- "to express our shared commitment to resisting and overcoming the evil of terrorism" in the wake of bus and subway train bombings Thursday that killed about 50 people.

"It is an evil that cannot be justified and that we utterly condemn and reject," according to a joint statement, part of which was read out by Badawi who chairs the Council of Mosques/Imams... Yahoo News

Friday, March 11, 2005 Posted: 6:43 PM EST (2343 GMT)
MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Muslim clerics in Spain have issued what they called the world's first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden as the country marked the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people.

They accused him of abandoning his religion and urged others of their faith to denounce the al Qaeda leader, who is believed to be hiding out near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country's 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission invited imams to condemn terrorism at Friday prayers…CNN

You are, as someone else pointed out, condemning an entire religious flock for the fanaticism of the few. This is equivalent to labeling all Catholics as supporters of the IRA. This is not the era of the crusades here where the archbishops were all in lockstep when declaring their Christian fatwas. And whilst we are in the midst of developing history, it behoves us to accurately report on the events that happen around us. It is inconceivable that with the educational standards of the western world today, that such ignorance abounds.

You, and far too many others as far as I can see, have failed to understand the big picture; George Bush challenged these extremists to “bring it on” and bring it on they have done, furthermore, both he and Blair bragged that Al Qaeda had suffered a 70% leadership reduction; that they were taking the fight to the terrorists as opposed to waiting for the terrorists to bring the fight to them. Using their own logic and war on terror against them, they were wrong! For these terrorists have shown that they are no longer just Afghani; Saudi or Syrian in makeup; they can still deliver devastating strikes with 70% of its leadership killed or captured; they are recruiting and spreading throughout the central Asian realm; they can recruit from first born citizenry in western countries, and they can in fact, not only “bring it on” but prove to Bush and Blair that they too can take the fight to enemy territory. So now what will these two fools do, start bombing British towns and brag that Britain is now the front line?

It is rhetoric such as yours that would incite defiance on those who have not been previously defiant. Accept the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not wish to be targeted in their western neighbourhoods, and do not believe in the extremism of those who perpetrate these acts in the name of their faith. But keep demonizing; ostracizing and alienating them and you are sure to aid extremist recruitment.

Let this be a lesson: when you create a bogeyman, people from both sides will buy into the myth.

Originally posted by subz
...... You dont need a single muslim cleric to say a thing to do the above. You just need to utilize the single most under-used resource of the War on Terror - our courts.

By goerge I think he's got it!! In order to beat a beast you need a bigger beast. How do you beat the most fearsome fanatical, anti-human, spawn of satan's toe jam????

By using satans minions ourself's.. Send in the Lawyers.....

What reports? How about a link? "some reports" is at the level of a kid saying "other parents let them stay up late". It has no validity and is an attempt to gain some by suggesting that there is more corroborating evidence out there.

Have you been reading the national Enquirer again? Or other "My baby is a space alien" tabloids?

Having tried to read most of the stuff on the topic I have found, I have yet to see even one suggesting the type of conspiracy you are talking about.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

Dont be to suprised of things dont work out the way you want them..

From some reports, things are starting to look like Al CIA da is behind this..

Btw, its kinda hard to search for facts if you are the one that committed the crime.

el-nashar is believed to have no links to Al Qaeda according to the officials in Cairo.

He may be brought back to the UK.

Originally posted by infinite
el-nashar is believed to have no links to Al Qaeda according to the officials in Cairo.

He may be brought back to the UK.

I think they are just saying that because they are not positive there is a link at this time. The explosives found in his home were similar to those used by Reid the shoe bomber. If the explosives can be linked to Al Qaeda there has to be a link between him and Al Qaeda.

what i find totally surprising is that so many people believe that 'the terrorists' carried out 911 where there is so much info to the contrary.. it is time that people quit believing what the papers, media and the administration said and started doing their own investigating.. as far as the london bombers, IMHO i think they were set up but the same people that were in on 911..
call me unpatriotic or crazy but i feel i know who my true enemy is and it is not usama bin laden..
the new world order is in high gear.. when you have given up all of your civil liberties to protect yourselves from terrorists you will realize what you have done.. don't buy into the paranoia, that is what they are counting on .. Fear..

who's given in to the terrorists? noone I know in britain! We were not scared of Hitler or the IRA and no terrorist will scare us either.

There is absolutely no evidence of that the CIA/NWO or whatever has anything to do with this! The bombings have turned a majority against the war on terror and the media have started blaming the iraq war for causing the attacks!

Please by all means prove me wrong