Originally posted by Lysergic
lol @ Venus


I wouldn't wish that on someone...


too much bad karma invovled

BAD KARMA IS THE LEAST OF MY PROBLEMS

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Seriously, alien, what biz is it of yours if another person makes the choice to screw up thioer own lives? I could care less if my neighbor wants to fire up a rock, so long as he doesnt steal my VCR, its his biz, not mine.

...what biz is it of mine?? I'm the one, unlike the greater majority of drug-users, who has to pick up the pieces when it all falls over in a steaming heap of excrement...thats what biz it is of mine...

...easy to say "What biz is it of yours drug Nazi" when YOU aren't the one having to clean up the shyte at the end of the day...

With my mother a former methhead, Ive cleaned up more than my fair share of shyte from her messes, thank you very much.

Eventually, I got tired of her games and told her to piss, off, sober up, or dont come back. It hit her pretty good. Eventually, she cleaned up, came back, and has been fine ever since.

Hate to be all heartless about it...but:

You helped your mum by not helping her...cool. Be a different story if she didn't straighten herself up and took a flying leap outa window...or wound up institutionalised for a great deal of her life.

One person...your mum. Maybe you helped a few more. Big fat hairy deal. Try more than you can count or remember. Not everyone heals as easily as telling them to p1ss off and come back when they're straight...

[Edited on 18-8-2003 by alien]

This brings up another question........
It may be easy for some of you to say make legal, all of it. But what your children or future kids. Are you going to say its ok for them to whiff up an eightball of coke or shoot up some herion? Do you want your children living in world where people are nailing up on every street corner. Being constantly harrassed by junkies looking for money? If you all think it is bad now, just imagine how much worse it will be if all drugs were legal.

Nyeff, it'd be no worse than it is now...

Think of prohibition...

People are going to do what they want to do wether or not it's legal, if someone wants to smoke a crack rock they are going to do it.

But once again I say, just the "soft" stuff should be legal.

Ignore if you like but you still don't get it.

Fry 2 - let me tell ya something..............If drugs are legalized by your standards....I hope that someday YOUR child is in the wrong place at the wrong time and is accused of selling/using drugs.

If my 17 year old were out selling hard drugs to kids he deserves the chair. Luckily I brought him up better than that.
I did not say ANYWHERE that users should be jailed. Why is it so hard to see this? I think addicts should get treatment and the best way to fund the treatment centers is by using revenue from "soft" drug sales taxes.
If you can show me 1 person who has overdosed on Marijuana and died I might change my position. I see it as a recreational drug that most adults can handle win moderation just like alcohol.
I don't know where you got this idea that I want everyone in America born with a crack pipe in thier mouths. I have lost enough friends to that as well as Meth and Smack. I am only talking about the socio economic implications of the legalisation of a naturally growing plant (THAT I DON'T EVEN USE!!!!!).

The only reason I brought up the NA thing is that they still harp on the "gateway drug" crap and that's all it is.
There is a difference between Meth and Marijuana. One grows from the soil and one grows on a stove. One is from the land the other is from chemicals. Many years ago while still experimenting I smoked weed. It never made me want to try something "stronger or better". There is a deeper cause for people to move to the more destructive substances and I don't think it has a bit to do with the plant.

Now, please stop trying to make an enemy out of me. I did not start the insults and would rather drop that if you would have a decent conversation about something we both seem to have strong views on.

peace

If a person is becoming a burden to you, then its your fault you let that person burden and pester you. Thats the problem with caring too much. I simply got tired of my moms problems overlapping into my life, I had to move on, i simply refused to let ger games drag me further. When someone drags you down, its because you let them. Does it feel good? No.....but not everything in life is suppsoed to feel good. It bugged me that my mom was off somewhere getting high, and I had no way of knwoing she was alright, dead, or insane. Regardless, it was a choice, like everything, a choice. if she died because I told her to get straight or get lost, i would feel quite #ty, but nevertheless, it was her choice. i refuse to outlaw someones choice.

Everyone makes choices. Everyone must live with the consequences of those choices. i have made bad descisions and good descisions. i have taken full responsibility for my actions. because I believe in free will.

If someone wants to get high and make a nuisance to someone, then that someone has the choice to tell the annoyance to go away. Its cold. Its brutal. But life often is. life isnt pretty all the time, and # happens. You are not responsible for others #ing up thier lives. They are.

My mother is about the only person I can say I "helped" by not helping. After a while, i got tired of the dopers and thier BS, and told em all to piss off, broke the ties, burtn the bridges, and set out anew. If they wanted to follow, they could, if not, thier biz, not mine.

It all boils down to choice, again. I detest any law that denies people to make choices for themselves. No one is forced to become a doper, unless you are abducted by slavers who force you to smoke opium until youre hooked, then keep you hiostage. otherwise, no one forces the rig in your arm, your meanie mommy, your bad teachers, no one. Its a choice you make for yourself.

I'm sorry but i'm pro-choice, if people want to take drugs it's up to them. I don't, for my own personal reasons, but i don't wish to judge others lifestyles by how i live my own, each is different.
I think that drugs only become a problem when they are tainted with other dangerous substances or when people are uneducated about them. I also think addiction is a major problem - but that applies to everything, not just drugs.

I believe drugs should be tolerated.

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Seriously, alien, what biz is it of yours if another person makes the choice to screw up thioer own lives? I could care less if my neighbor wants to fire up a rock, so long as he doesnt steal my VCR, its his biz, not mine.

...what biz is it of mine?? I'm the one, unlike the greater majority of drug-users, who has to pick up the pieces when it all falls over in a steaming heap of excrement...thats what biz it is of mine...

...easy to say "What biz is it of yours drug Nazi" when YOU aren't the one having to clean up the shyte at the end of the day...

Alien -
Thank you and please don't ever stop doing what you do. You are an inspiration to those of us who DO KNOW what you go thru.

[Edited on 8/18/2003 by Venus]

Nyeff, it'd be no worse than it is now...

I suspect it would be. I shudder at the thought of everyplace being like Santa Cruz. A wonderful little town town where there is a dealer and a junkie on every corner. And a crack whore on every other corner. Yes lets legalize drugs......
Or maybe it will be like Oakland,where gangs and drugs run rampant. Maybe a couple of shootings every night might be good.
The proabition arguement works with weed, as it is pretty harmless. Not so with meth or herion. That # will twist your brain,beyond repair.
If you want to know what a world with legal drugs will look like, just go to the badside of whatever town you live in. Look at the people,they are lost,brain dead,some are violent. Most looking for handouts,from the government and people just walking by. They live in dirty rat infested places. A good example is a person I used to know. He was a coke dealer/user. He had a baby girl. Now he would get so paranoind,that he would not go outside,not even to take the garbage out. His daughters room was covered from floor to cieling with dirty diapers,and the baby slept on them. I could givee you all a thousand more stories,all true,but there isn't enough bandwidth to write it all down.
Yep lets make it legal......

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
in my mind, yes without question.

i will list a few reasons for this.

one, the war on drugs is a drain on tax payer dollars and isnt preventing drugs from getting on the street and into the hands of drug addicts and future addicts.

two, it would remove the criminal element from drugs. no more worries over getting shot because you bought your stash from someone else. no more possiblity of getting killed in a dark alley with some lowlife thug with a semi automatic in the back of his pants who wants to screw you out of your money and give you nothing but a bullet in return. no more drug dealers on corners. criminals wont make money off of drugs anymore and will get caught doing other things they are not use to doing or they'll learn to get a job for a change and stop acting a criminal. when you make it cleaner, safer and cheaper than they sell it for...they're going out of business really quick!!!

three, it can make drugs safer. as it is now criminals and amateur make drugs, they process them in dangerous ways using harmful chemicals. it also presents an opportunity to make drugs less potent/less lethal than they are now so maybe people can be funtional drug users instead of the present condition some people are in. (not all addicts are non functional)

four, you tax it! thats right, tax it. every joint or pack of joints you sell, boom a user tax. since its not a needed thing but something some want to do they should pay the price for their habit. moneys collected could go into REAL drug programs, prevention as well as giving help to those who need it.

five it keeps johnny and suzy Q taxpayer from having a criminal record because of their personal choices. it also frees up space in jails and prisons for REAL criminals and also allows more time for punishing them, not someone who wanted to smoke a joint.

six, i believe it would take away some of the stigma that people who do drugs are bad people. morality is realitive and this is for you to decide. me, i dont care because its what they do in their own house. it gives some a chance to get help without being viewed as "just another crackhead".

seven, it would put drug cartels out of business. no more mafia killings over drugs. no more smuggling!

the government stands to gain more from legalizing all drugs regulating them and taxing them than fighting them. some claim the government already sells drugs....but nothing is being done on this scale.

private companies grow it, make it and sell it. the government collects taxes from it.

i also think people should be able to grow their own plants, peyote, mushrooms if they want.

i havent gone completey indepth about this but i think i've made some decent points and some of the more important points about this.

before anyone jumps the gun about my view and my avatar i want to make it very clear right now i do not use any drugs at all but i do recognize people should have the right to do what they want to themselves. in fact i dont even smoke or drink.

[Edited on 18-8-2003 by ThePrankMonkey]

I agree!!!


Caveat Emptor: Only Marijuana

Never thought I would see the day that BT and I agree.

Zion,

Youre making assumptions that if drugs were legal, that people would still be buying street drugs.

if drugs were legal, cooperations, being the money hungry greedy entities that they are, do you think they will turn away from a new profit opportunity? No. Thy would be scarmbling for the rights and patnts on thier own batch of dope. Thus, regulated, pharmecutically manufactured dope, much cheaper than the street crap, would become much more favored by users than the shifty, dirty crap on the street corners. No greedy drug company will turn down this chance to make a profit.

Thus, street gangs will have lost a market, just like the gangs of the 20's lost out when alcohol became legal again. people would prefer the better, cheaper, premium dope offered by Lily, Bayer, whoever. the street crap would disappear. Half the reason street drugs are expensive and very profitasble is because of the massive legal risks in smuggling, distributing, and selling. A kilo of smack that starts off at say, 2000 bucks from the lab, by the time it hits the streets, with risks, huge cuts for the big dealers and such, that 2000 dollar bag of dope will cost about 20 grand. pahrmesuticals, not wanting to lose that, will manufacture it cleaner and cheaper, putting gangs and street dealers out of business.

Well its nice that government can make a lot of money off drugs. They are going to need to for healthcare for all the junkies that overdose or shoot somebody. Or help pay the police some more because of all theft and murder that will occur.

Skadi, common you have to admit you always go out and look for those homegrown tobacco cigs and moonshine

The majority of drug murders are dealers fighting iver turf. Legalize them, the dealers lose out because the drug companies will take over instead. In the rest of the drug related muders, more often than not, the victim is the addict him/herself, because they didnt pay thier dealer. Again, legalize drugs, remove dealers.

We dont pay healthcare costs for overdosed junkies unless you live in a state that has state wide social healthcare. there is no nationalized healthcare, its mostly private. Its the same silly arguement with cogarettes. Insirance premiums? they raise em regardless, they just want money. Most junkies dont have health insirance anyway.

Cops will have alot less problems on thier hands, once turf wars and organized crime lose yet another market. Lets see, what goods to the mob people push? drugs, hookers, gambling rackets, ect. legalize hookers, drugs, you remove basically almost all thier markets. thus, you weaken them. You divert the flow of money.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Half the reason street drugs are expensive and very profitasble is because of the massive legal risks in smuggling, distributing, and selling. A kilo of smack that starts off at say, 2000 bucks from the lab, by the time it hits the streets, with risks, huge cuts for the big dealers and such, that 2000 dollar bag of dope will cost about 20 grand. pahrmesuticals, not wanting to lose that, will manufacture it cleaner and cheaper, putting gangs and street dealers out of business.

WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET THIS INFO????
or are you just pulling numbers....that's the craziest thing I ever heard If you believe this....I have a kilo you might be interested in...real cheap

The cops will have just as much to do. Just because its legal,dosen't mean its safe. Meth is meth no matter who sells it. So now we would have a 100 times more people running around outta there minds.
There is no way I want my children growing in world were some guy down the street can by a healthy dose of herion. I guess some people just need to live with a bunch of users for awhile,then come back and tell me you want this crap legalized.

Drunks cause far many more problems. yet booze is legal.

You talk about dealers and junkies everywhere, what about, downtown anywhere USA, after 2 am, the number of fights, brawls, and loud drunks staggering around committing crimes? Alcohol is legal, yet causes more crimes and deaths alone per year than all other drugs combined.

Alcohol increases testosterone, thus increasing agression and sex drive. Alcohol is responsible for a huge chunk of rapes and murders. Why is it acceptable for drunks to tear up and crash cars all around, but junkies are somehow worse?