I'm not a big fan with the abuse of booze either. I would rather see weed made legal and booze cut off. The worst a stoned person is going to do is fall asleep on the couch. I also think that DUI laws are way to soft. They should be tougher. My feeling is that if you offer something to someone,then they will take it. You offer legal drugs then yes we will have a lot of people running around high. More than we do now.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Drunks cause far many more problems. yet booze is legal.

You talk about dealers and junkies everywhere, what about, downtown anywhere USA, after 2 am, the number of fights, brawls, and loud drunks staggering around committing crimes? Alcohol is legal, yet causes more crimes and deaths alone per year than all other drugs combined.

Alcohol increases testosterone, thus increasing agression and sex drive. Alcohol is responsible for a huge chunk of rapes and murders. Why is it acceptable for drunks to tear up and crash cars all around, but junkies are somehow worse?

here's a NA quote for ya:

"Alcohol is a drug (period)"

Maybe you should spend more time trying to make alcohol illegal (again) instead of trying to legalize drugs. We'd all be better off if we just learned to live with ourselves instead of trying to escape.

Kind of ironic that The Salton Sea just started on Cinemax...

..........make some people lots of money,just think what would happen if suddenly everyone were to come to their senses and quit drinking and doing drugs.
-The medical industry would lose bazillions.
-The war on drugs would be over,what would all those guys do without that now?.
-The legal system would rake in far less mula from drunk drivers and drug dealers and users.
-The prison industry would collapse in on itself.

Drunks in and of themselves are harmless really,the system capitalises on the mis-fortune of the masses.
Drunk driving is a stupid thing to do,but it is not all that big of a problem.
Wanna figure out what's really wrong here?,study the legal system,your findings will appall you.
The only thing all this is about is money,money,money.
If there is no profit in it ,it does not exist.
The corruption goes deeper than most people will ever know,deeper than most people want to know.

Now it gets fun
I would tend to agree with you that drugs and alcohol DO in fact make lots of money for some. Quite the astute observation I might add.
There are soooooo many directions this thread could go at this point....Thank you

Here is one theory:

The U.S. Govt. does not want hard drugs off the street. They are a wonderful tool of control over the masses. Best part is....people PAY for the leash they wear. This could be the NWO's (if you believe in it) wet dream!
Hell, it worked in China........(opium, look it up )

They DO NOT like things like THC and LSD as well as a plethera of other hallucinogens. One has to wonder why they work so hard to incarcerate altenative thinkers while letting the crack dealer out in 48 hours. Perhaps the more addictive the drug the more useful in controlling the populous? I don't know, could be or not.

All I can say is if you do any of the things listed above, rethink your position and decide if you really need to continue. (except for a good beer or somesuch )

Let's hear some more "conspiracy" about this, shall we?

..........the biggest one is the one no one sees,we have lost our legal system,I am in the process of proving that there is something going on here that no one is aware of,judges and lawyers have stolen everything (toto),you CANNOT trust any part of the government.
The most difficult part of exposing this collosal fraud is the fact that everyone seems to have fallen under their intimidation spell,I am absolutely terrified of what I am about to go up against,but I need to prove this to myself and in doing so prove that what I am tlking about is real,everyone around me thinks that I am off my rocker,being the cattle they are is going to be their undoing.
I am just glad that the city I will be going to court at is one of those which rejected the patriot act,or I could just disappear.
if you want to know the truth about what has happened here,you must learn about the Uniform Commercial Codes,they were developed to do business in a fiat money system,this stuff will give you a headache.
If all of this collapses,your local cop will either be a good guy to have around or your worst enemy.
This whole terrorism thing was allowed to happen so that that patriot act thing could be passed,we are all in grave danger.
Wish me luck in court on the 20th of August,I am $hitting myself just thinking about this thing almost.
eek!.

Hi Toltec. Read many of your posts but have not engaged you yet. Nice to meet you

OK to answer some of your queries:

Is there such a program which exposes potential adolescent drug abusers to the consequences evident in medical stabilization units of long term user's of drugs? No and for as to why, is that such a program would be considered abusive (something I agree with).

Yes, there are. If you search around this site you will find the one in Jamaica. On the other hand there are the other ones that are more of a "survivor" type situation in ConUS. My father did a documentary on one back in the 70's. It worked well then and they still work now.
How do I know?
My wife is an Admin./Teacher at an "alternative" High School. Meaning: the kids that are too bad for the mainstream school.
She had a 17 year old that was doing everything under the sun until the father stepped in and shipped her to Colorado .

She came back after 2 months and was 100% clean and a good person overall. She has since graduated and is picking a university.

Point is, they do exist. ---stretching fingers----

Legalizing drugs would turn our roadways into killing fields, make access to adolescents and preadolescents as easy cigarettes are today.

I guess I need to ask...What drugs are you referring to?.
Killing fields? They already are and it has NOTHING to do with drugs. People are inherently stupid.
Marijuana should be under the same restricions as alcohol. Therefore, a bit tougher to get than cigarettes.

A recent study on cocaine (for instance) involved placing a mouse in a cage with food, water and a liquid solution mixed with cocaine, the animal starved to death. The study was repeated over and over again with the same result.

Give a rat cocaine and it just wants more, give a person cocaine and usually the same thing happens.
hmmm, I just had an idea about going to a coke party and setting up a maze with cameras. What fun!

That's very nice about the 17 year old girl but if memory serves Karen Quinlan was also about that age (21), fact to the matter is she is still alive actually, but if you do a search on the name I doubt very seriously you will find any current pic's (but then again I might be incorrect).

You are correct though people in general do test limits and that can result in there actions being described as the result of ignorance.

The problem with Marijuana is that there is no quick, reliable and non-evasive way to test for it on the road way (outside of peeing in a cup or doing a blood test both of which require being detained). Legalizing Marijuana would in all probability present a marked increase in potency which would be as debilitating as alcohol with respect to operating machinery.

To be honest have never seen a marijuana addict experiencing a crisis with respect to his or her abuse but have seen those who because of marijuana use have not been able to perform to the peak of there ability in any vocation. Long term marijuana use has an effect upon one ability to perform sexually (impotence is very possible) but by the same token these are as well issues with respect to alcohol abuse.

Any Thought?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Drugs dont make the destiny, the desire and ambition of the people make the destiny.

This is one of the truest statements i have ever heard. I dont understand how people can argue it.

Originally posted by Osobad28

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Drugs dont make the destiny, the desire and ambition of the people make the destiny.

This is one of the truest statements i have ever heard. I dont understand how people can argue it.

drugs take away that ambition.
My sister went to college, started smoking weed and dropped out at the end of the 1st semester. She smoked regularly for a couple of years and then started to slow down after she started getting hassled by the cops and had a run in with the Mongrel Mob. Once she had cut back to about 1 sesh a week she went back to college and was able to graduate top of her class.

As for the idea 7it's my body, I'll do what I want', I thought the difference between animals and humans was that we passed our knowledge fron one generation to the next. We already know it screws you up, you don't need to go and check for yourself.

Originally posted by Osobad28

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Drugs dont make the destiny, the desire and ambition of the people make the destiny.

This is one of the truest statements i have ever heard. I dont understand how people can argue it.

Spoken like people who don't understand addiction. Desire and ambition, as you understand it, no longer exist. The only desire you have is for more drugs and the only ambition you have left is to "get out there and score more". I prayed every night to wake up without the obsession to use or not to wake up at all. Every morning before I even opened my eyes I had to force myself to remember if I had anything left from the night before. If I did, I would hop right out of bed...if I didn't have anything left I would lay in bed until I knew I could call a connect and score. Now that's true desire and ambition! The person I was while using is NOTHING like the person I was before or the person I am now. Now I believe I can control my own destiny.....while using NOTHING AND NO ONE could control me except the drug...therefore......THE DRUGS CONTROLLED MY DESTINY.

everybody is sooo woried about the addicts. You know what # em' ever heard this it's called natural selection it means the weak die the strong live. It's simply not about the fact that you make them legal. No, it's the fact that the government is making way too much money off it and that means that they have to be dealing them too. Come on you idiots cant' you see that they lie to you. First off there hasn't been many studies on pot cause the government makes it hard to get it for research. second it isn't addictive except to weak willed people hell ciggarettes are even more addictive. so is coffee you gonna make that illegal too? like to see ya try. And about the government how is it people believe that rotten hen house. Like these people "know" whats good for me yeah right

also think the government is fighting drugs?
ever wonder why the DEA is a part of the treasury dept?

now who's an addict coffee lovers!

Originally posted by TheZeroOne
everybody is sooo woried about the addicts. You know what # em' ever heard this it's called natural selection it means the weak die the strong live

MY WORD! What a narrow little mind you have!
...and I think you mean "survival of the fittest" (IDIOT??)

in the event that drugs should become legal, as skadi put it, the monolith companies that own the rights to everything else would also own the rights to manufacturing, marketing and distributing their drugs. instead of being thrown in jail for pushing and killing, street dealers would be thrown in jail for copyright infringement, possibly. you wouldn't have crime lords kidnapping children and holding them hostage because some crack addict can't pay their dealer, that job would be taken over by credit companies and bill collectors. that's the whole point of legalizing them, take the power away from these huge drug rings. and there would be little safety warnings and dosage recommendations on the packages and everything would be carefully gauged ad regulated and consistent in the manufacturing process, therefore making them at least a little safer, so when your curious children decide to experiment, there will be a lesser chance of someone dying from an overdose the first time. as far as weed goes, that shouldn't even be a part of this discussion. and yeah, THERE'S ALREADY CRACKHEADS AND JUNKIES ON EVERY STREET CORNER, unless you live in idaho or something, or whatever, at least where i live there are. i am in california, maybe that has something to do with it. a lot of the time crackheads and junkies are on some form of welfare (not all of them, but a lot) and the public is paying them money they are supposed to use to get food and pay rent and try to get themselves back up on their feet, but instead they take the money and buy tweek or smack with it, and so the public is basically already paying out of their own pockets these huge drug leaders and crime lords that kill infants to stuff with the sh!t to get it across the borders.
simpler : YOUR TAX MONEY IS GOING TO ADDICTS WHO BUY DRUGS FROM MURDEROUS CRIMINALS, would you rather have the money go to at least our own "legal" corporate criminals, you know keep the money on our own team at least? the quality would be far better i'm sure...

Legalize and take away the profit motive and there would be far less crime in this country.

They wouldn't be killing mom and pa down at the local store to obtain their money for high priced drugs.

Prohibition never works. Just creates more crime.

Legalize and take away the profit motive and there would be far less crime in this country.

Sure there would be. Meth is meth no matter who sells it. You will still have junkies trying to steal for it. So the gangs aren't as bad. Big deal. You will still be dealing with people whose only concern,only thought process is getting their next fix.
Where are these drugs going to be sold. Smoke shops,hospitals, grocery store? Then those will become the targets.

Originally posted by nyeff

Legalize and take away the profit motive and there would be far less crime in this country.

Sure there would be. Meth is meth no matter who sells it. You will still have junkies trying to steal for it. So the gangs aren't as bad. Big deal. You will still be dealing with people whose only concern,only thought process is getting their next fix.
Where are these drugs going to be sold. Smoke shops,hospitals, grocery store? Then those will become the targets.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!

Are we going to be able to buy this legal meth in the local corner drug store like we buy tylenol or are we going to need a perscription? I'll tell you what....If I could walk into any store and buy meth you bet your ass I am going to take that over the counter # to someone I know who cooks "real" meth and have them make it as potent as the stuff I used to get. If I'm going to need a prescription...I think I will call my doctor and lie my ass off about the symptoms I am having so he can give me a prescription. If he doesn't give me one then I think I'll find someone who does have a prescription (the new dealer) and rob them blind. Now...want me to live next door to you? I'll rob you whether it's legal or not. Ya....lets legalize it. That way I'll have a defense for my actions.

Ok we're gonna stop this right now. First thing is first you (Idiots) ever heard of amsterdam? Yeah they had this crazy idea that all drugs should be legal. I know several people myself who not only have visited, but lived there and you know what this unseen consequence that (you NARROW minded little bastards said would happen didn't in fact their crime rate is negligible and that deals with those who have a natural tendencies to steal uh.... whats.....that......called....duh oh yeah it's kleptomaniacs.

now wheres your fight venus? that will show you narrow minded. i'll bet you go to church every sunday don't you?

I will repeat mysefl again:

Drugs do not make your destiny, people do.

Drugs do not take your ambition, you do. Drugs did not make you take them, you CHOSE to take them. No one FORCES drugs on you. If you get into deeper and deeper, it is because you made the choice to do so.

When people quit blaming drugs and god and bad parents, and start taking responsibility for thier own actions, then maybe, human society MIGHT evolve.

Until then, I can only laugh when people think that drugs make everyone do stuff that thats the source of all thier problems. What made then take that first hit/slam/snort?

Venus, I smoke. Ciggarettes are VERY addicting. I smoke almost two packs a day. You assume too much when you dont think I understand addiction, I grew up around addicts. I am addicted, and spend money that I could spend for other things feeding my addiction. Going without smokes makes me moody, irritable, manic, and semi violent. Yet do I want smokes outlawed? No. I knew ciggatrettes were addictive when I started. My grandma died from lung cancer. My mom rots away from it. Yet I still smoke. I CHOSE to. making cigies illegal would turn me semi criminal. I enjoy smoking despite the certain slow rotting death it shall cause me. Making them illegal would not stop me. Just like making drugs illegal doesnt stop people from doing them, and only turns people criminal. The US has the tougest drug laws, yet our rate of use is sky high. Drug laws and making them illegal did not stop, and only makes people do more and more. The war on drugs, just like the war on terror, is a fraud, a joke, and unwinable. They only serve as excuses to rob people of rights and bury the constitution.

So, yes, drugs should be legal, and crime would rop quite a bit if they were legal. Again, I will say it once more: what one person wants to do to thier body is thier business, not the govs. Juts like I oppose the govornment trying to force me to stop killing my lungs, I oppose people who prevent others from following thier own vices.

And i can only laugh at your comment about reinstituting prohibition. Read the history of the 20's to see what a miserable failure making booze illegal was. Crime soared in the 20's because of illegal booze.