It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

WTC Hero janitor blows 'Official 9/11 Story' Sky High!

page: 4
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 08:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by Lanotom
Would you be so kind as to add a link to the "plenty of footage"?

Thanks


Here's a clip of the firefighters going into the lobby:
st12.startlogic.com...

The windows are blown out but it doesn't look like much other damage.


Nice
Thanks for the vids.

Even the firefighter said the lobby looked like the plane hit the lobby.

Not only the windows but the marble sheets were blown off the walls.




posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 08:37 PM
link   
If you read various survivor's accounts, the shock of the impact caused damage throughout the building.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 08:46 PM
link   
First we have the JFK "magic bullet theory". Now we might have the WTC "magic smoke theory"! I can't wait for the drawing that shows how the smoke travels instantaneously down the tower, WITHIN the tower, all 70 plus floors down past the lobby, into the basement, then puffs back up and spews out onto the street!! All the while cleverly hidden from view as it snakes down elevator shafts, jumps over to the next shaft, and does it again, then puffs out into view. All in 0.01 seconds time!!

Yes, it will truly put the JFK theory to shame.

And of course they designed the towers to withstand a 707 hitting them.....but didn't take the FUEL into account
. They must have assumed it would be an unfueled 707 launched into the tower with a 200 foot high slingshot!


[edit on 24-6-2005 by turbonium]

[edit on 24-6-2005 by turbonium]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 08:48 PM
link   
I'd be very grateful if someone can post some more lobby or immediate outside building footage.

HR No offense but I would never take an answer that you give as informative. I have my reasons to believe what happen and you have yours to discredit.

Growing up in Jersey City Heights I spent lots of time at the WTC 2-3 times a week plus watched and visited during the construction. I don't believe that the shock would sustain throughout all those floors to peel off the marble and blow out windows as there was alot to that building to absorb and dispel energy. I am sure the energy would have been dispelled as a horizontal shock more then a vertical one.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 09:16 PM
link   
Found some good videos here.

911research.wtc7.net...


Matter of fact it's a pretty good site overall relating to 911


If you look at the first video you can see a flash on the corner of the building as it collapses. It's about 2 seconds in.

This video.
www.911research.com...



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 09:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by turbonium
First we have the JFK "magic bullet theory". Now we might have the WTC "magic smoke theory"! I can't wait for the drawing that shows how the smoke travels instantaneously down the tower, WITHIN the tower, all 70 plus floors down past the lobby, into the basement, then puffs back up and spews out onto the street!! All the while cleverly hidden from view as it snakes down elevator shafts, jumps over to the next shaft, and does it again, then puffs out into view. All in 0.01 seconds time!!


Again, you seem to be under the impression that the elevator's are all in separate shafts. That is far from the case.



And of course they designed the towers to withstand a 707 hitting them.....but didn't take the FUEL into account
. They must have assumed it would be an unfueled 707 launched into the tower with a 200 foot high slingshot!


Sigh. Once again, I will repeat myself.

There was no specific design criteria for the building to withstand the impact of an airplane!

In other words, the Buildings WERE NOT DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A PLANE.

After the building designs were completed, the structural engineer calculated the effect of an impact on the building.

He did this pre-computer, using many assumptions about the type and speed of the aircraft that are NOT at all comparable to what actually happened.

The Port Authority, eager to reassure potential tenants that the buildings were safe, exaggerated these calculations.


The effect of an impact was NEVER considered in the design process itself.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 09:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lanotom
I am sure the energy would have been dispelled as a horizontal shock more then a vertical one.


The buildings swayed, twisted and rocked severly as a result of the impact. Marble is a rigid material, that is hung off a substrate. It is entierly psooible that the motion of the building popped those panels off the walls.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 09:56 PM
link   
This supports the authors views.


www.whatreallyhappened.com...

This one shows the smoke better at ground level before collapse.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:08 PM
link   
Well in both instances, the "shake" and the "smoke" you are talking about occured AFTER the south tower collapsed.

One of the signs of an imminent building collapse is the movement of the building.

The seismic connection has been thoroughly debunked, don't make me go over that again.

Also, the Hero Janitor claims to be the last WTC employee to have left the north tower before it collapsed.

He never mentions that shake or smoke.




BTW, do you know what the janitor was before he became a janitor? an illusionist and escape artist.




[edit on 24-6-2005 by HowardRoark]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:08 PM
link   
.

two other men trapped and drowning in a basement elevator shaft, were also pulled to safety from underground explosion..


[Rodriguez] heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.

He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.


The most severely affected part of the WTC from an impact at its 93rd floor would be nearest the impact, The energy would become less as it traveled down the building, the basement, farthest from the impact, would not have been exploding. The shock waves would have become reduced as they travelled down the building and were absorbed and not been increased.


[Eric Darton] notes in his book that the buildings, completed in 1972 and 1973, were engineered specifically to withstand the full impact of a 707 jet hitting the superstructure.
www.capecodonline.com...

The Empire state building had been hit with a plane so builders knew this was not out of the question.

Jet fuel burns, it doesn't explode with the force of nitroglycerine or plastic explosives which are in a chemically very unstable state.

An explosion in the subbasement would have likely traveled up the elevator shaft, with a great deal of force. Possibly being what burned Felipe David.

Jet fuel falling a thousand feet down an elevator shaft would tend to suffocate/restrict burning due to difficult airflow.
It also had to get around the elevator cars in each of their shafts.
Looking at the floor plan each elevator shaft appears to have a casing around it separating it from its neighboring shaft.
IMAGE LINK

The local elevator shafts appear to have pitts/base-floors on their skylobby floors,

That empty elevator probably plummeted 14 floors into a pit on the 77th floor.
www.usatoday.com...
This would have limited a direct drop through the local elevators.
The only elevators going from the top of the building to the bottom were the freight elevator and the ones to the Windows on the World and Observation decks. The expess elevators to the sky lobbies terminate at the sky lobbies on the 77th and 44th floors.
.

Mod Edit: Long "Image Link" only.

[edit on 25-6-2005 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 12:36 AM
link   
Not so fast HR..

"The seismic connection has been thoroughly debunked, don't make me go over that again"

Seismic connection thouroughly debunked? Really now? I've seen many of your posts "explaining" the data presented. In particular, elaborate on the large spikes during both collapses..

Don't mean to rehash this but please explain this graph/information to all of us again? I've got several other links with the same info.



uscrisis.lege.net...


[edit on 25-6-2005 by TxSecret]



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 01:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Now then, if ya'll don't want to be inconsistent, you better follow the majority, like everyone seems to do here. (IE the world hates the U.S. and opposes the U.S., therefore they are obviously correct
)

-wD

Well we have to 'follow the majority' here, WD, because in the 'real world' the majority of people I talk to about this either don't believe the alternative conspiracy theory or simply don't want to think about it.


As for this story...I don't know if it's really true. Who does? The idea of jet fuel down the elevator shafts...all the way to the bottom...doesn't really ring true with me, but then what do I know.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 01:35 AM
link   
You cannot get molten pools of steel from hydrocarbon fires.
Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). This is assuming there was any jet fuel even left to burn!

Quote from the FEMA report into the collapse of WTC's One and Two (Chapter Two):.
"The time to consume the jet fuel can be reasonably computed. At the upper bound, if one assumes that all 10,000 gallons of fuel were evenly spread across a single building floor, it would form a pool that would be consumed by fire in less than 5 minutes"
Quote from the FEMA report (Appendix A):
"In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments."

From the American Free Press:
Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told AFP that he saw pools of “literally molten steel” at the World Trade Center.

Tully was contracted after the Sept. 11 tragedy to re move the debris from the site.

Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Md., for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself “the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures.”

Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived at the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation.

AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site.

“Yes,” he said, “hot spots of molten steel in the basements.”

These incredibly hot areas were found “at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels,” Loizeaux said.

The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,” Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon.

From this link from the US Geological Survey...Thermal Imagery Hot Spots is the below text and image
Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800oF. Over 3 dozen hot spots appear in the core zone. By September 23, only 4, or possibly 5, hot spots are apparent, with temperatures cooler than those on September 16.



WTC Analysis
Table 1 Thermal Hot Spot Data
Location Temperature Area
Hot Spot N Latitude W Longitude (Kelvin) % FOV sq meter
A 40o 42' 47.18" 74o 00' 41.43" 1000 15 0.56
B 40o 42' 47.14" 74o 00' 43.53" 830 2 0.08
C 40o 42' 42.89" 74o 00' 48.88" 900 20 0.8
D 40o 42' 41.99" 74o 00' 46.94" 790 20 0.8
E 40o 42' 40.58" 74o 00' 50.15" 710 10 0.4
F 40o 42' 38.74" 74o 00' 46.70" 700 10 0.4
G 40o 42' 39.94" 74o 00' 45.37" 1020 1 0.04
H 40o 42' 38.60" 74o 00' 43.51" 820 2 0.08

Thermite can produce molten steel, and create temperatures greater than 5400F. There is evidence which corroborates the possibility of thermite being used on 9/11. One is the video hereExplosion Smoke At WTC Base which shows the white cloud of smoke characteristic of a thermite explosion, at the base of the tower just before the collapse.

And there are also the many statements made by people near or within the towers who heard secondary explosions just prior to the collapse, three of which I've posted here...

From the NY Times....
"I can hear explosions below me" - Edmund McNally, talking to his wife just before he died in the collapse. McNally
In People magazine's Sept.12, 2001 tribute to 9/11 issue...

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem...

"We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck. I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building."

From an NBC interview with Pat Dawson and NYC Fire Dep't Safety Chief Albert Terry...

"Shortly after 9 o'clock [...] [Albert Turi, the Chief of Safety for the New York Fire Department] received word of the possibility of a secondary device, that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said there was another explosion which took place, and then an hour after the first hit, the first crash that took place, he said there was another explosion that took place in one of the towers here, so obviously according to his theory he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building.

One of the secondary devices he thinks that took place after the initial impact he thinks may have been on the plane that crashed into one of the towers. The second device, he thinks, he speculates, was probably planted in the building."

Add the fact that the fires were not widespread as videos, photos, and firefighters recorded on tape conclusively prove. Then add a resistance-free collapse of WTC 1, 2 and 7, despite no fires you could show as evidence of being anywhere near to being the cause of these collapses.

This is solid, irrefutable evidence of a controlled demolition with use of explosives.
Please provide comparable evidence to prove the collapses were the result of the planes/fires in WTC 1 and 2, and only fires in WTC 7.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:27 AM
link   


In other words, the Buildings WERE NOT DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A PLANE.


Yes they were, I have seen many, many 9/11 documentaries, In some the engineers of the Tower speak about how they were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707, and yes that did include the Jet Fuel, a fully loaded Boeing 707.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The WTC clearly shakes before it collapses, proving even more CD was used.

If you look very carefully when it is shaking a small piece of the WTC falls down....(proof the Tower was shaking not the Camera)

[edit on 25-6-2005 by aelphaeis_mangarae]


SMR

posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:29 AM
link   
Nice post turbonium, but unfortunately you'll just get piss-poor excuses as to why either they lied, or that it cant happen.I already posted that same material in another thread.

I can only hope for the hardest evidence to come out and prove this stuff and see the look on some of these guys faces.To have a plane smack into a building and make it crumble after only a few hours, than have it show off the amount of heat including melted steel.....but I guess OUR information is always false and put together by some nut cases who just want to make things up to make the US Govt look bad for no reason,Maybe they are just Bush haters.
I could care less if it was President Lincoln or the Pope, what happened happened and it was not 'as it seems' as there are liers trying ( or tried at least ) to cover it up.

The day will come when someone slips up and I almost dread that day as I see anarchy filling the streets.So perhaps I really wouldnt want the REAL truth to come out.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Sigh. Once again, I will repeat myself.

There was no specific design criteria for the building to withstand the impact of an airplane!

In other words, the Buildings WERE NOT DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A PLANE.

After the building designs were completed, the structural engineer calculated the effect of an impact on the building.

He did this pre-computer, using many assumptions about the type and speed of the aircraft that are NOT at all comparable to what actually happened.

The Port Authority, eager to reassure potential tenants that the buildings were safe, exaggerated these calculations.


The effect of an impact was NEVER considered in the design process itself.

No, it was - from this link (with video)...WTC & 707 Hit

Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resiliance of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001. "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting".

Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, died on 9/11/2001 in the World Trade Center attack.

Architects that designed New York's World Trade Center Towers expressed shock on September 11th that the 110-story landmarks in Lower Manhattan collapsed after each tower was struck by a hijacked passenger jetliner according to MedServ News.

Lee Robertson, the WTC project's structural engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism on high-rises at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany, one week prior to 9/11, according to Chicago engineer Joseph Burns.

Burns said Robertson told the conference, "I designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it."

MedServ Medical News



[edit on 25-6-2005 by turbonium]



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:40 AM
link   
I have often thought that if I had designed those towers and had watched them collapse afetr having been struck so high up, I would be wondering what I had done wrong.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by SMR
Nice post turbonium, but unfortunately you'll just get piss-poor excuses as to why either they lied, or that it cant happen.I already posted that same material in another thread.

I can only hope for the hardest evidence to come out and prove this stuff and see the look on some of these guys faces.To have a plane smack into a building and make it crumble after only a few hours, than have it show off the amount of heat including melted steel.....but I guess OUR information is always false and put together by some nut cases who just want to make things up to make the US Govt look bad for no reason,Maybe they are just Bush haters.
I could care less if it was President Lincoln or the Pope, what happened happened and it was not 'as it seems' as there are liers trying ( or tried at least ) to cover it up.

The day will come when someone slips up and I almost dread that day as I see anarchy filling the streets.So perhaps I really wouldnt want the REAL truth to come out.


Thx,SMR. I have no choice but to re-post the evidence until it sinks in with some people. They can't deny the cold, hard facts - well, they can deny it, as in "living in denial"!
But they have NO evidence, it would seem, to come close to backing up the "official" story. How could they prove such a fairy tale?

If they're honest, and weigh the evidence each side presents, they will realize the truth.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 04:27 AM
link   
"He was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn’t have come from the airplane above, but only from a massive explosion below. I don’t care what the government says, what scientists say. I saw a man burned terribly from a fire that was caused from an explosion below.

"I know there were explosives placed below the trade center. I helped a man to safety who is living proof, living proof the government story is a lie and a cover-up.

"I have tried to tell my story to everybody, but nobody wants to listen. It is very strange what is going on here in supposedly the most democratic country in the world. In my home country of Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can’t even say a word."

"I never could make it to the top, but I got up to the 33rd floor after getting some of my equipment and a face mask out of the janitor’s closet," said Rodriguez, adding he heard a series of small explosions going off between the 20th and 30th floors, unrelated to the airplane strike, while making his way through the stairwell to the top floors.

"Also, when I was on the 33rd floor, I heard strange sounds coming form the 34th floor, loud noises like someone moving and thumping heavy equipment and furniture. I knew this floor was empty and stripped due to construction work so I avoided it and continued to make my way up the stairs."

" I disagree 100%with the government story," said Rodriguez. "I met with the 9/11 Commission behind closed doors and they essentially discounted everything I said regarding the use of explosives to bring down the north tower.

"And I contacted NIST previously four times without a response. Finally, this week I asked them before they came up with their conclusion that jet fuel brought down the towers, if they ever considered my statements or the statements of any of the other survivors who heard the explosions. They just stared at me with blank faces and didn’t have any answers.

"Also, The FBI never followed up on my claims or on the other part of my story when I told them before 9/11, I encountered one of the hijackers casing the north tower."

"During the 9/11 hearings, NBC brought a crew out to my house and spent a day taping my story but they never did air a word of it," said Rodriguez. "Since then, some reporters and commentators have subtly warned me to keep quiet, told me my life could be in jeopardy and warned me that I really didn’t understand who I was dealing with.

"I have been receiving this type of subtle harassment for years, but I keep telling everybody I can’t be intimidated because I am on a mission. Whenever someone asks why I keep talking or warns me that I could be killed, I just tell them I have nothing to lose.

"I tell them I lost 200 friends and I am their voice now. I tell them I will do everything in my power to find out the truth since I am living on borrowed time since I probably should be dead anyway."



That seems to be mostly his quotes.

Now anyone trying to debunk this somehow you have to question just what sort of mission you are on.
As evidence goes, it is pretty strong.
No innocent person in the world can possibly have as good an idea about what happened as the people who were actually in the towers.
I dont see how Bush can know any better what happened than this guy.
You have to question why he is being ignored, and why if you are on a quest for truth you would choose to ignore him.

There are obviously going to be probelms with any witness testimony, but it still remains the most powerfull way of correctly working out what happened, how can it be ignored?

What he is claiming about media hints to keep quiet, is some very serious stuff. Shame he doesnt give any names.
Only if part of what he is saying is proved to be lies can his testimony be discredited.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 10:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by turbonium

Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, died on 9/11/2001 in the World Trade Center attack.

Architects that designed New York's World Trade Center Towers expressed shock on September 11th that the 110-story landmarks in Lower Manhattan collapsed after each tower was struck by a hijacked passenger jetliner according to MedServ News.

Lee Robertson, the WTC project's structural engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism on high-rises at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany, one week prior to 9/11, according to Chicago engineer Joseph Burns.

Burns said Robertson told the conference, "I designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it."



Sorry, turbonium, but I've already addressed that falacy once before
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The affect of an aircraft impact was considered long after the design of the towers was finalized.

The fact is, structurally, the towers did withstand the impacts. They were not able to withstand the damage to the fireproofing.


Burns said Robertson told the conference, "I designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it."


What a totally secondhand, hearsay, logically and gramatically incorrect statement.






[edit on 25-6-2005 by HowardRoark]




top topics



 
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join