Can Anyone Prove Any of the Topics in this forum actually Exist?

*throws hands into the air*

Bah, I never said this entire forum was useless, but a very good portion of it is! Very well, I give up trying to prove any points in this forum since none of you want to rationally think about your claims!

Almost as bad as the UFO forum, but not quite.

It is near impossible to prove the paranormal, so far.
With the paranormal there is NO such thing as evidence.

For example,
Some debunkers will never accept the paranormal exist's.
What ever hard evidence we come up with they will always have an explanation, whether its actually correct or not.

Even if you see something with your own eyes, it isn't always proof of it existing.
Especially as the Brain can be confused with such things as optical illusions!

Raideur, what a great question. I am excited to take on your challenge. I had such a great time discussing this with a friend (a man of science) a couple of years ago. The closest way I can prove it is by explaining to you how it is possible.

First of all everything is created of energy. Light and sound are both energy. After years of hard work they figured out what the speed of light and sound are.

A thought is energy, just like light and sound. The explosion of energy that creates a thought is the same explosion of energy needed to make a sound come out of your mouth. So, what is the speed of thought.....how far can it travel. It is a question that has an answer. I do not know what the answer is because I suck at math, but I do know that there is an answer.

For an experiment, have a friend blind you and wear ear plugs. Sit in a chair. Then have them try to touch you, or get an animal or something and have it come near you. You wont be able to see it or hear it, but you will know it is there and it is comming close to you. THis is because you are recieving energy.


Did you know that most people dont know you can pick up on someone elses energy? Strange I know. They say that babies and children can pick up on the energy around them. Children dont think anything of it. BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW ANY DIFFERENT.

SO, here is a spirit with out a body. It needs to give you a message. It can produce a thought it and send it to you. Unfortunatly, it comes to a mind over body thing. You do not believe you can recieve therefore you cant. While you are asleep though, everything changes. It comes down one of the basic laws of physics at that point. Objects in motion like to stay in motion/ objects at rest like to stay at rest. Your mind never stops. Your body does not want to move. If you hear something while you are asleep you will dream about it. SO lets say this spirit knows what is going to happen tomorow. It tells you while you are asleep and you dream about it.

GUT FEELINGS/intuition

the same neurons in your brain that say DANGER WILL ROBINSON are in your gut the only difference is that your brain is advanced enough to second guess itself and your gut is not.

ANIMAL INSTINCT

Every living thing consists of energy. If something is wrong they put out a large amount of energy. If they are mad, sad, excited, what ever, they put out that energy. You in turn pick up on that energy and that is where your instincts kick in.

SO I recon I will stop rambeling on for a bit and leave you with a chalenge of my own.

You say "prove it". I say "prove it wrong". Can you prove to me that energy can not travel?

Im sorry, but emotions and instincts are just thoughts and thoughts are just electrical sparks, and very tiny ones, confined to the brain and neurons. They do not have the energy to travel in some exotic fashion we cannot detect.

Perhaps you want to believe your emotions and thoughts can do amazing things. It gives people a sense of awe and enpowerment, but they cannot accept that they are no more special or endowed with energy than a rock or water. Its all atoms that obey the laws of physics, and that makes for a very boring physical world if you dont take the time to examine it logically.

Originally posted by Raideur
Im sorry, but emotions and instincts are just thoughts and thoughts are just electrical sparks, and very tiny ones, confined to the brain and neurons. They do not have the energy to travel in some exotic fashion we cannot detect.

Perhaps you want to believe your emotions and thoughts can do amazing things. It gives people a sense of awe and enpowerment, but they cannot accept that they are no more special or endowed with energy than a rock or water. Its all atoms that obey the laws of physics, and that makes for a very boring physical world if you dont take the time to examine it logically.

You really have to re-consider things. Science is a progressive discovery. And it is obvious that we are just at the beginning of it. All your said above is based on the probability that we have reached the limit. What you are stating is just an opinion based on what we actually know. I think it would be more judicious for you to stay neutral about all this, instead of stating it cannot be possible. You may regret it later.

[edit on 20/8/2005 by Musclor]

Its plain and simple belief. No critisism or skeptisism is going to change someones belief if its a strong one, I for one have all the proof for myself that there is much MUCH more to life than this, and by this i dont meen staring at your computer screen reading a 17 year old boys rant, i mean daily life where you wake up, go to work and go to sleep. This is my view is all the proof we can physically get, that orthough not EVERYONE believes, ALOT of people do, and if alot of people can believe the same things, that means alot more than a ghost in a museum (lol) or whatever these "proof" seakers expect.

In the end, it will happen to you oneday, in this life or the next. So you dont need to look for it, it'll smack you in the face oneday and you'll wonder what you saw in life before...when you wondered what the point in life was...why and blah...

Acceptance will free you minds...resistance is futile!

Originally posted by Raideur
Im sorry, but emotions and instincts are just thoughts and thoughts are just electrical sparks, and very tiny ones, confined to the brain and neurons. They do not have the energy to travel in some exotic fashion we cannot detect.

Perhaps you want to believe your emotions and thoughts can do amazing things. It gives people a sense of awe and enpowerment, but they cannot accept that they are no more special or endowed with energy than a rock or water. Its all atoms that obey the laws of physics, and that makes for a very boring physical world if you dont take the time to examine it logically.

Ok, Raideur, maybe you should think about this a bit more. We are not rocks, nor are we water. Yes everything is made of atoms. Atoms are made up of over 90% energy. You say they are just electrical sparks confined to the brain and neurons. Why is that? Can you prove that? Light might shine from a star, but it is not confined to that star. Sound comming out of ones mouth is not confined to ones mouth thank goodness or no one would hear the words. The fact of the matter is not only can no one prove that thoughts are confined to ones cranium, but it makes more sense that it travels just as other energy does. The sun is quite a ways away from us, but its light aka energy effects us.

We can get into an indepth conversation on physics and atoms, and energy if you want to. However, the more you learn, the more you will realize that it is not just possiable, it is probable.

Raideur,

People find what they are looking for most often. As an example of this I offer this personal true experience:

One morning my girlfriend and I decide to go antique hunting. As we start out the door, I reach in my pocket fishing for the keys to the van and realize I haven't got them.

Back at the table there are no keys. So I empty my pockets of change, a cigarette lighter, and my wallet. I then look in the van and there are no keys.

So the pair of us search the bedroom, the bath and the dining room when the wallet, the change, and lighter reamain. I turn my pockets inside out and there is nothing.

Again I think they must be in the van. And as I reach the door, I stick my hand in my pocket and geez! There are the keys!

To me, it was the act of one of the spirits that live here.
But how would I prove that you?

I'll take a crack at this one.

Before I explain, though, I'll give a little background information as to where I'm coming from.

First of all, I'm very much a "show me" sort of person myself. I'm not willing to believe much without solid proof. That said, I've had a number of paranormal experiences which, while I cannot explain or replicate them, have become a sort of "proof" for me. I've often heard voices of people I knew who weren't present, only to later find out that the voice was the same as that person's thoughts at the moment. I've seen ghosts and other paranormal entities. I also have an uncanny ability to detect a person's mood just by seeing them, whether I know the person or not.

I've had enough such experiences to believe that such things exist. I have also, being the logically minded person that I am, tried to look for scientific explanations of these phenomena.

Empathy, or the detection of a persons general mood or state of mind, is probably the easiest one to explain. As we all know, humans (along with every other known form of life) is a bio-electric "machine", meaning that we are composed of organic materials, and powered by low-voltage/low-current electrical charges. As with all electricity, even the slightest bit of electrical charge will emit a magnetic field. This has often been studied as bio-magnetics. Being fundamentally primal animals, we have the ability to pick up on the bio-electric emissions from other animals or people (and even plants) because of "hardwired" instincts. These bio-magnetic emissions also do not always stay the same. They vary depending on state of mind and emotional state. For instance, our bio-magnetic signature is different when we are sleeping, than when we are awake. It's different when we are angry versus when we are happy. The differences in these bio-electric and bio-magnetic states has long been used in medical science to monitor bodilly function (for instance, in a sleep study lab - we're able to record brain waves because of bio-electric and bio-magnetic emissions). Most known life (especially in the animal world) has demonstrated the capacity to detect these emissions naturally, without the use of technology (such as a lone deer, perking his head up in alarm when a predator is near, and the subsequent reaction of the rest of the herd). This is empathy. Quite real, and quite proven.

Unfortunately, I have not come across viable scientific explanations for the rest of the paranormal phenomena. This is not to say that they don't exist, however. Paranormal investigation has largely been relegated to fringe elements, often without the funding for advanced technology or labs to measure or study these phenomena. In addition to that, there is a lot about physics that we simply don't understand. Even with the seemingly simple mechanics of bio-electricity and bio-magnetism, there are many aspects of this subject that still elude scientific definition.

With a lot of paranormal cases, since it's something that is not often observed, and rarely occurs when observation and recording equipment is present, I feel that we may not even know WHAT to try and measure to discover the science behind it. People have tried thermal imaging, some with interesting, though unrepeatable results. Some have tried electromagnetic or electrical spectrum imaging/detection, once again with interesting, though irrepeatable results.

Even those of us who believe in the paranormal (and consider ourselves rather fluent with it) really don't understand the science behind it. To those of us that have experienced enough to know it to be true, we have given somewhat of a leap of faith into further interaction with the paranormal. Just as the Bible cannot be largely replicated or explained scientifically, so it is with paranormal studies. Time may eventually yield a scientific explanation, but as yet, it eludes us, just like so many other aspects of physics.

Actually, the deer just have really good hearing, but besides that.

Humans have not been proven to be sensitive to EM radiation at all, unless its bumping into cells and causing cancer. Nor has manipulation or emission been proven, and if Im wrong, please point me to the scientists that say so.

I tried to just let it be, but the "DID THE TREE EAT MY DOG?!?!" threads just keep annoying me to no end and i refuse to just sit idle while such ignorance and stupidity is responded with the mild "Well it MIGHT of done it....." or "hmm, that changes things" responses.

THese threads do not deserve conservative and supportive followups if they are complete baloney. Not being outright insulting or blatantly refusing is one thing, but some of this stuff is REALLY STUPID.

I dont consider the threads on psychics or ghosts or anything specific to be baloney, and many of them are actually valid questions that should be looked at rationally, but some are obvious in their lack of insight and are almost completely baseless.

Im sorry if you happen to be one to support these or post them, but think about what your suggesting. This isnt a "anything goes" forum, these topics are to be looked at with an open mind, but also an intelligent one that can use logic.


No more threads about ghosts stealing car keys, PLEASE.

Bump for all you skeptics out there.

Let em' have it.

I can print them and show you them? However than you must prove the paper exsists and you yourself exsists to. How do I know I didn't just think of this whole play in a dream as dreams seem forever and I or you are God. Or each of us are mere thoughts of God in a Dream. If we all die God awakes but does he wake in a good mode or bad.

HA think about it enough we shall all go crazy.,

No one is sure anyone else exists, however, the physical world assumes they do, and they physical world is where I am asking for evidence, not in a subjective manner, but objective that all can agree upon.

I doubt I will find objective proof.

Yes I think there is proof. But I also think it has to be proven to you as an individual. It is hard to take anothers word for it, unless you are susceptible to a certain belief system in the first place.

As I have also said RV offers much proof. For example, if I thought something to you and then you saw what I was thinking in your own mind and told me what I was transmitting to you and I validated this in some scientific way, and especially if you did this several times...I think you might start believing (in yourself anyway) that you were doing something Psi.

If you saw a ghost for yourself, you might believe.

If you healed someone yourself that was very ill, you might believe. etc., etc. Do you see what I mean?

So I have to wait for something amazing to occur before I accept? What if it does occur and I write it off as not special?

Some stupid philosophy that is just running in circles around the question at hand, but here it is anyway:

UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. Now not everyone is assuming that UFOS are piloted by aliens or anything. But people do in fact capture things on film and video that they cannot identify. Thus, unidentified flying objects, by definition, are proven to exist. There is proof that we can't identify them .

In fact, the only way for UFOs to NOT exist is for alien spaceships to be proven real. Thus, unidentified flying objects would be identified, and the name would be void.

It doesn't matter WHAT they are, they are proven to exist. Whether they are extraterrestrial vehicles, top secret aircraft, the planet venus, swamp gas, or some sort of natural plasma discharge. You cannot deny that there are videos and pictures of images that can't be identified.

Oh, snap.

[edit on 26-2-2006 by Yarcofin]

LOL...on your second question, if something does happen and you write it off as not special...HeHeHe..thats funny! I am laughing because that can and does happen all the time, Psi stuff freaks some people out and they don't want to believe in it because it doesnt fit into the neat way they have been trained to view reality, or something does happens and it goes Zip right over some people's heads, or people think that is a coincendence, or think they were hallucinating or something. Or they just put it into some 'Ignore This Odd Happening' mental file in their head maybe.

You can make Psi happen to some degree, you can practice Remote Viewing for example, and become better at it...some top RV'ers can see 75% of targets over a hundred seen. Once, you know how to RV, then you can move on to learn other things to do in conjunction with RV. And, sometimes if you go searching for the supernatural like ghost hunters do.... you will find EVP's and get some good pictures of orbs or other spirit energy. But, if you ever watch that show 'Ghost Hunters'...you will see that most of the time it will be debunked, or you will come up empty handed...but not always!

And, you can deal more with specialized Psi/PK people who are extra talented like Monks and MPD's, who are very good at controlling many physical things through Pk like blood pressure, heart rate, body temperature, diffusing toxic chemicals from within, eye color, hypnosis, and at sending and receiving energy, etc. There are places you can practice and people you can meet in person or on-line who can help. I have said a couple times here that people could join my partner and I to try RV with us, but I had no takers, you are welcome to practice with us if you wish...don't expect phenomenal exact target hits everyday, but do expect them. You will get a lot of partial target hits. The more you practice the better you will do. It's like studying music really.

I never think of a person who is looking as being a sceptic for some reason...because at least you are looking...so it's possible you want to believe?

True Yarcofin,

We don't know what the hec those pics are of actually, but that's what keeps us going! It's all about the adventure, & curious minds want to know..lol.