NEWS: GOP Chairman Walks Out of Patriot Act Meeting

If C-SPAN were saying the meeting was about the "Patriot Act and Civil Liberties" you'd expect their to be scope for the discussion that took place. But because they mentioned things other than the renewal of the Patriot Act this Sensenbrenner actively sabotaged it.

Sensenbrenner is deliberately lying through his teeth when he says the witnessess being called are not "pertinent or relevant". The discussion was about the Patriot Act in its entirety and Sensenbrenner took it upon himself to limit the scope of discussion to just the 16 sunsetting parts of it.

Conyers articulates at the beginning that the Patriot Act involves all complaints about civil liberties and as such all the witnesses (ACLU, Amnesty International) are more than relevant.

Why the lies Sensenbrenner? If the Democrats set the topic, as he repeats ad nauseum, then why did they set the topic if they wanted to talk about something else? Are we to believe they are that incompetant?

[edit on 11/6/05 by subz]

``for some reason i couldn't do a (quote) from marg6043

which went like this:

"""The patriot act definition of terrorist could be applied to almost anyone who disagrees with the federal government.
.... ...... .........
all these things we know but don't argue about it, but the patriot act made all this no longer hidden facts but its making into law....."""

~~~~~~~~~

Exacto-Mundo!! the loopholes and areas of the Law, which have no Legal Prescedent, must be clarified!!! therefore the Patriot Act!!

there are some existing, but, 'iffy' law precedents...such as Insurrection-ists
or Saboteurs...or Insurgents...or Anarchists...or Freedom-fighters...and
probably a few i can't think of right now.

the Patriot Act was created to 'instantly' address all those nebulous designations, which would/could forever tie up the perp. in legal wranglings!!
trying to prosecute the 'alledged perp' in the existing body-of-law, is a no-win exercise!!

~~~~~~

my perspective, is that the Democrats- - are actually the 'loyal opposition'
and the more fuss & ado & stink they throw-into-the-fan....welll,
it appears that this 'bad guy' made every effort to analyse the issue !!

again...we're back to Valhalls' generous assessment - of both Repugs&Demos being rotten!!

Originally posted by St Udio
again...we're back to Valhalls' generous assessment - of both Repugs&Demos being rotten!!

How come everytime a republican does something that is clearly WRONG, they find some way to blame the democrats? Have you all watched that clip? It's disgusting! Of course it's no where to be seen in our main stream media. What the hell is going on in this country?

[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

Originally posted by Lecky

How come everytime a republican does something that is clearly WRONG, they find some way to blame the democrats?

It's simple Lecky . . . when it comes to the patriot act, it no only benefits Republicans with more power over citizens but also any other political party that agree with it and that included Democrats also.

They are the two elites political parties in power and if you look in their background they served the same interest groups.

It's just that they share different names.

It's hard to trust our politicians any more even if they are from different political parties they are still under the same elite group.

Originally posted by marg6043
It's hard to trust our politicians any more even if they are from different political parties they are still under the same elite group.

I haven't lost faith in my party yet, speak for yourself. In fact it grows stronger and stronger the more I witness the GOP wreck my country as well as dragging our reputation into the ground. If you are a republican who disagrees with Bush, how about speaking up for your country and your party without placing the blame game on democrats it's getting rather old and tired.

Marq you seem like a nice lady who's been listening to too many rethugs at ATS, the democrats motivation isn't power no matter how hard the republicans want to spin it. That's what they automatically think b/c guess what their motivations are? They don't get it, their brains don't work in the same way they don't understand how anyone could give a rat's behind about anyone other themselves, so they falsely assume the democrats are all about power. By no means are the democrats a perfect party but I do believe that it wants what is best for our people...white Christians as well as everyone else.

Not all republicans are like this, I respect the ones who have a clue and recognize that our country also includes those doggon craaazy democrats At least they have respect for the system, Sensenbrenner doesn't and should be held accountable (like some other rethugs in Bush's fascist regime).

There, I said it.




[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

Originally posted by QuietSoul

The real problem is that our representatives are to busy quarreling
and vying for political power than taking care of the needs and concerns of its citizens. If our representatives do not quit acting like kids and come together and work together on our problems instead of trying to make the other party look bad we will be in very serious trouble.

Did you watch the video on Cspan.com? That is exactly what they were trying to do. They were addressing all the concerns and effects the PA has had on us as a nation, and were literally snubbed.

Yeah I watched both of the videos on the web page. I still hold my statement to be true. They were acting like kids. both parties democrat and republicans. Limiting the scope of the discussion on the patriot act and saying that the minutemen were on the border because they thought they had the right under the patriot act. Its all bullshoot. why can't they sit down like adults and talk about the problems of this country without pulling stunts like the one in the video and lying to make the other side look bad. That is my point, my statement goes well beyond this topic.

How exactly was the testimony of people directly affected by the PA not related to the PA?


The democrats followed procedure and invoked a rule that hasn't been used in decades. They had every right to hold that hearing, and the fact that the GOP didn't want to hear it is very telling.

What was against procedure was the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee stopping a hearing unilaterally. He is the one who broke house rules by not even motioning to adjourn. He didn't call for a vote, he justed ended it.

I guess they no longer want up or down votes no matter what?

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Yeah I watched both of the videos on the web page. I still hold my statement to be true. They were acting like kids. both parties democrat and republicans. Limiting the scope of the discussion on the patriot act and saying that the minutemen were on the border because they thought they had the right under the patriot act. Its all bullshoot. why can't they sit down like adults and talk about the problems of this country without pulling stunts like the one in the video and lying to make the other side look bad. That is my point, my statement goes well beyond this topic.

They were trying to sit down like adults and talk about the problems untill some idiot got up and turned off all their mics then left.

Can you even imagine what would happen if a democrat were to do that? The white Christians (AKA republicans) would be rioting D.C. by now and it would be all over the news.

Look what they do when Dean speaks the truth and states that the republican party is mostly a white Christian party...the media goes wild! It's ok for the the rethugs to campaign their Christian values but when a democrat merely states the obvious they all freak out and the media portrays him to be out of control.

Right now I'm just scratching my head over this "liberal media" we are supposed to have, something very strange is going on in our country and if you haven't noticed yet then you aren't paying close enough attention.



[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

Sensenbrenner must be defeated in the next election. I am willing to give $100 to any sensibly authentic primary GOP opposition, and then to the opponent in the next election. His election machines and optical scanners must be monitored to the extreme, and his wrongdoing must be exposed!

His pronouncement and attitude show that he is not a Republican but a Communist of the East German STASI variety. This man must never work in politics again, I do not care if he runs for dog catcher because he would botch that job too.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by SkipShipman]

have to turn off the mics there is a lot more to the torture then the media has been letting on.

They were trying to sit down like adults and talk about the problems untill some idiot got up and turned off all their mics then left.

Please explain to me how this is not acting like a kid? I am not sure what your arguement is with me.

Could you imagine if a republican lied like the black lady democrat (forgot her name) in the video about the minetmen what would happen.

As I stated before both parties have serious problems and we the american people are in the middle of htere petty fights and we are the ones that are being screwed. all of us wether we claim to be a democrat or a republican.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by cryptorsa1001]

.
The US UNpatriot act wants to treat US citizens more like gitmo detainees without even having to go to a judge.

The US patriot act will be used for political blackmail and treachery and NOT to defend this nation's security.

This whitehouse is the one who intentionally revealed a covert CIA operative.
This whitehouse is the one sending memos to the DOJ to allow more torture.
This whitehouse is the one who argued for the war in Iraq because of WMDs, while barring DOE employees from telling the truth about aluminum rocket tubes.
This whitehouse is the one who calls citizen's who guard the US border vigilantes, because it wants to increase criminal border crossings.

And this is who we want to trust to invade OUR personal privacy?

Sensenbrenner represents that dictator mentality,
My way
With no discussion or debate
period.

He looks kind of old,
Maybe he had a 'depends' moment to attend to?

[edit on 11-6-2005 by slank]

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Please explain to me how this is not acting like a kid? I am not sure what your arguement is with me.

Sensenbrenner did that, you know...the republican? Not to mention that during the actual discussion he was cutting everybody off in mid-sentence in a crazy hostile manner.

Could you imagine if a republican lied like the black lady democrat (forgot her name) in the video about the minetmen what would happen.

Some more horsepoop from the right defending their outrageous behavior on the left.

Just finished watching the clip in its entirity. First point of order for myself! was to save the file incase the link is removed from public viewing.

Its a damning portrayal of the width and breadth of the lies some Republicans (not all) are prepared to publically espouse. Sensenbrenner deliberately stiffled the discussion and barely paid lip service to the democratic rights of his country.

Repeatedly beamoaning the amount of hearings he's had to sit through regarding the Patriot Act was outrageous. So there is a limit of decency with regards to the amount of times you can try to fix your country? He views the repeated defence of his nations' constitutional rights as a leaky tap. Something of annoyance and that should only be tolerated until you've heard enough.

Defending human rights and your constitution should be the eternal pursuit of your elected representatives. When one of them simply cannot be bothered to do so you have to remove him!

Lecky, I am saying that both sides are idiots. If you can't see that then you belong with the groups I mentioned in the first sentence. Are you that blinded by allegance to your political party that you can't see both sides act like kids and idiots. My comment about the black lady was to show you how stupid your comment was about republicans lying. Both sides lie just as much as the other.

Sorry but this is nonexcusable insanity, when witnesses like librarians are treated so arrogantly, beyond rude by Republican Congressional seat holders and turn off mics refusing to hear witnesses then storm out the room, and don't even allow our Democrat Congressional members to even hold Judicial conferences in the White House, which "we the people" actually own, there is something terribly wrong with that.




[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

cryptorsa1001, your point about blind defence of your party applying equally to Democrats is true. However, your inference that the Democrats on this occasion were also acting like kids is wrong.

They did nothing apart from try to secure the rights of those present at the hearing. It was Sensennbrenner that was abusing his power and made a mockery of his bipartisan position. He did not want to hear criticism of the Patriot Act and only gave them the 5 minutes the rules entitle them to. If he really wanted the hearing to be productive (and not justify yet more hearings) he should of allowed the witnesses to atleast finish their sentences!

Watch the entire video again if you must. The democrats in this specific occasion were not acting like kids at all.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Lecky, I am saying that both sides are idiots. If you can't see that then you belong with the groups I mentioned in the first sentence. Are you that blinded by allegance to your political party that you can't see both sides act like kids and idiots. My comment about the black lady was to show you how stupid your comment was about republicans lying. Both sides lie just as much as the other.

Yes you are a republican it's obvious you don't agree with democrats on most matters...but when someone who is a representative of your party acts crazy and out of control like that please don't place blame on the democrats and shrug it off by saying "both parties lie".

Just because I disagree with this man's behavior doesn't mean I assume he speaks for you. I just don't understand how people can shrug it off so easily by blaming their opponents. It just makes you look worse by accepting it with indifference.

Also, may I just add... if that were a democrat I would never arrogantly assume for the republicans to just sit down and take it because "both parties lie". Many republicans would be angered for a DAMN GOOD reason. Jeez...I mean are you kidding me?

CALGON TAKE ME AWAY!

[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

Just because I disagree with this man's behavior doesn't mean I assume he speaks for you. I just don't understand how people can shrug it off so easily by blaming their opponents. It just makes you look worse by accepting it with indifference.

I said he acted like a kid. I said he was an idiot. How is this being indifferent? Please explain that to me.

I am not a democrat or a republican. I am an american looking for someone to represent my views and act on them, right now I do not see that in either party at this time.

To me lying is acting like a kid. Johny did you spill the milk, you were the only one in the room. No mom it was not me. Black democrat represenative, the miuntement were defending the border because they think it is part of the patriot act. both are lying and acting like a kid.

The person that turned the microphones off and left the room is an idiot. He did not get his way so he acted like a kid. If you do not let me have my way I will take my football and go home. In this case he turned off the microphone and went home.

Subz I agree with you on the following point:

They did nothing apart from try to secure the rights of those present at the hearing. It was Sensennbrenner that was abusing his power and made a mockery of his bipartisan position. He did not want to hear criticism of the Patriot Act and only gave them the 5 minutes the rules entitle them to. If he really wanted the hearing to be productive (and not justify yet more hearings) he should of allowed the witnesses to atleast finish their sentences!

The mans actions are indefensable.

I am also against the patriot act.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by cryptorsa1001]