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NEWS: GOP Chairman Walks Out of Patriot Act Meeting

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posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Apparently the GOP Chairman decided he didnt want to hear the arguments of the American citizens represented by The House. He repeatedly cut off people mid sentance, turned rep's mic's on and off, and ended the entire meeting and walked off leaving people yelling into shut off mics.. Is this what it's come to? This is democracy?
 




The Republican chairman walked off with the gavel, leaving Democrats shouting into turned-off microphones at a raucous hearing Friday on the Patriot Act.

The House Judiciary Committee hearing, with the two sides accusing each other of being irresponsible and undemocratic, came as President Bush was urging Congress to renew those sections of the post-Sept. 11 counterterrorism law set to expire in September.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., protested, raising his voice as his microphone went off, came back on, and went off again...

"We are not besmirching the honor of the United States, we are trying to uphold it," he said.

Democrats asked for the hearing, the 11th the committee has held on the act since April, saying past hearings had been too slanted toward witnesses who supported the law. The four witnesses were from groups, including Amnesty International USA and the American Immigration Lawyers Association, that have questioned the constitutionality of some aspects of the act, which allows law enforcement greater authority to investigate suspected terrorists.

Tempers flared when Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., accused Amnesty International of endangering the lives of Americans in uniform by referring to the prison at Guantanamo Bay as a "gulag." Sensenbrenner didn't allow the Amnesty representative, Chip Pitts, to respond until Nadler raised a "point of decency."

Sensenbrenner's spokesman, Jeff Lungren, said the hearing had lasted two hours and "the chairman was very accommodating, giving members extra time."

James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, speaking immediately after Sensenbrenner left, voiced dismay over the proceedings. "I'm troubled about what kind of lesson this gives" to the rest of the world, he told the Democrats remaining in the room.

Video of hearing

FULL video on www.C-SPAN.com (Cant link)

Source
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Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I for a long time have laughed silently at this admisitration. Not just the GOP, but the democrats as well.

This seems to be the only Administration that asks the important questions AFTER they take action.

When in history have we gone to war with another country and had the discussion of WHY we went to war AFTER the war.

When in history have we stripped the nation of its rights and asked AFTER the fact WHY we did it.



Related News Links:
www.sfgate.com
www.washingtonpost.com

Edit add: Video

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]




posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Oh wow - I like this one the very best!


Tempers flared when Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., accused Amnesty International of endangering the lives of Americans in uniform by referring to the prison at Guantanamo Bay as a "gulag."


If the gulag fits - wear it. You want to stop pissing off the entire world to the point they shoot at us? It's easy - stop holding people in concentration camps with no charges against them.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:53 AM
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Another example of the sorry state of our politics in capitol hill, when people can not even talk to our elected politicians face to face.

I wonder when our country is going to come to terms that our leaders are not favoring them but their money making interest.

The arrogance and hypocrisy is the standard behavior that comes from our elected officials.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Some said I had no source.. I see 2.. anyhow, I'll post more..

Source
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I'll post more if you want?




posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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The two main sources are good enough for me, they can not be better, Fox alone should be at the top.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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This is the way the House works, and it's been that way for a long time. Unlike the Senate where Senators can pretty much speak as long they want, the much bigger House has everything scheduled and timed.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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lol how did I know that some people would attempt to defend the indefensable



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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The only thing indefensible here is the rowdy actions of the Democrats breaking House rules and bringing in irrelevant and unrelated testimony. Truly, Gitmo has nothing to do with the USA Patriot Act.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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You keep telling yourself everything is rosey. Im sure there is a special place at the elites table for you when all is revealed. If you like the fact that your government can enter your home, seize and search anything they like and not even inform you then fine. You deserve all you get.

[edit on 11/6/05 by subz]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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QS very nice post.

I guess you get tired of people telling you are wrong.
So you leave, even if you are wrong?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Truly, Gitmo has nothing to do with the USA Patriot Act.


How can you say that with a straight face? The very REASON the United States citizens are in Gitmo, regardless of INNOCENCE, is because of the PATRIOT ACT.

They are there without a trial, being prisoned for crimes the country obviously cant prove.. because of your fathomed Patriot Act...

Wow.


Edit:


QS very nice post.

I guess you get tired of people telling you are wrong.
So you leave, even if you are wrong?


Please elaborate..

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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Talking about the chairman.

The pat-riot act is a joke and im sure its hard to defend it, so he just left.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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QS

SC's comments were about the GOP dude's actions in the article, I do believe. I don't believe they were aimed at you.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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What U.S. citizens are imprisoned in Gitmo?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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I dont know about U.S citizens in Gitmo but there were Australian and British citizens in there. That there nationality makes a difference to you speaks volumes. Ever heard of universal human rights?


joi

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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The only thing indefensible here is the rowdy actions of the Democrats breaking House rules and bringing in irrelevant and unrelated testimony.


Eek its those rowdy democrats again..!
Look at them trying yet AGAIN to keep America liberated!


edition.cnn.com...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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subz,

Quietsoul claimed that there were U.S. citizens detained in Guantanamo because of the Patriot Act.

This is incorrect.

It still has nothing to do with the Judiciary Committee nor the Patriot Act.

If they want to discuss Gitmo they should do it in the Armed Services committee where it belongs.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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I do not in any way support the renewel or extension of the Patriot act however if the democrats can't oppose it for its un-constitutional grab for more police power rather than using the hearing for grandstanding on what is a minor side issue affecting relatively few individuals compared to its effect on the entire US population - then I can't blame Sensenbrenner for his action.

The cynacist in me sees the dems using the Patriot act as a tool to whip up anti-Bush/Republican sentiment with Guantamano as its club while quietly allowing passage of the bill later down the road, after-all its surveillence and enforcement clauses will benefit them just as well when they regain power in the Senate or Whitehouse, but they can always claim it was the Republicans fault.

Laugh, cry or argue but this is my take on all politicians to one extent or another - once the power is handed over its very difficult to regain control.

If you think the Democrats are better stewards of this kind of power then I would like to point out the past administrations use of FBI records for political use as an example, only next time no warrants will be needed to seize computer, written or other evidence whilst the person under investigation is under a gag order or in jail indefinately and there will be no records to expose the abuse because they will be sealed as a national security matter for decades if not forever.

I am not attacking dems here, I am simply pointing out neither side is innocent nor can either be trusted with this kind of power.

One has to start thinking ahead one, two or more administrations into the future as government learns how to manipulate laws to their every advantage, courts make new interpretations that bastardize the meaning and scope of legislation, prosecutors learn how to apply to criminal rather than terror suspects by declaring almost all activety as terrorist related (already started).

The Patriot act is the most dangerous risk to civil liberty in this country no matter the party in power - they will all abuse it sooner or later.

It is disappointing that the argument is diluted with Guatamano type rhetoric.

The Patriot act is an assualt on all peoples rights - that is the clear argument that needs to be made.

As I have pointed out before the government has had apt time to correct its deficiencies in intelligence and security making it in-excusable to not sunset the bridging Patriot Act as planned and legislated.

As far as the Guatanamo issue is concerned I beleive that the Geneva convention rules addressing non-uniformed extranational combatants existed long before the Patriot act was passed and think its just a political red herring to bring it up in relation to the Patriot Act.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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What U.S. citizens are imprisoned in Gitmo?





Jose Padilla, a native-born U.S. citizen, allegedly reentered the United States from Afghanistan pursuant to a plot to detonate a radioactive bomb. A Chicago gang member once convicted of murder, Padilla had allegedly converted to Islam in prison, moved to Egypt, changed his name to Abdullah al Muhajir, and, according to government sources, met with Al Qaeda members. Arrested at O’Hare airport, he was first detained as a “material witness.” For reasons that remain unclear, on June 9, 2002, he was designated by President Bush as an “enemy combatant” and sent to a naval brig in South Carolina, where he has been detained incommunicado—
www.cato.org...


Here's just one, the most recorded. I won't argue his innocence.. because I dont have all the facts..

Besides most of the detainee's in Gitmo arent even recorded. We have a number.. no list of names.

This thread isnt about Gitmo, I could go on forever about the atrocities we're commiting in camps like Gitmo.. but not in this thread. If you want to argue Gitmo, make a new thread.

This thread is about the Patriot act, the arguments it's spawned, and the fact that the GOP (and most republicans) abrubtly walked out in the middle of a sensitive discussion.

The democrats tucked their tails and hid for the better part of 4 years, and now they're up and screaming about what's happened and the republicans refuse to hear it...


[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]


I dont know about U.S citizens in Gitmo but there were Australian and British citizens in there. That there nationality makes a difference to you speaks volumes. Ever heard of universal human rights?


Your assumptions of me are incorrect. I assure you that much. The reason I used the example of american citizen in places like gitmo is because most if not all of the detainees grabbed in the USA were done so in regards to the PA.

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Universal human rights yes, universal american rights no. these people are not americans, they have no right to a speedy trial, etc.




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