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One possible way a civil war could start in America (still not saying Titor was real though...)

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posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Weather or not Titor really was a time traveler or not, i was thinking of one way a civil war could actually start in America (and possibly even in 2005 like Titor said). Here it is.
The military is way short of it's enlistment goals and has now even been taking measures and presenting offers they never would have before. If the U.S. Gov't. were faced with another problem in Iran or N. Korea or Syria or elsewhere we are at a shortage of troops as it is to really do much somewhere else. The U.S. Gov't may not even be waiting for something to happen else where, they may just be planning to hit Iran or N. Korea anyway. So what this get's at is since they are so short on troops, not to mention current troops are so stressed out already, what else could they do but start up the draft again (forcing people into the wars). Now, thing is there are probably at least half of Americans that don't think the current war in Iraq is going like it should and a lot even question if we should have gone in the first place or should even still be there. If they were to start another war somewhere i do not think there would much support from the U.S. public. So if they were to start a draft, i think a lot of people would protest not really believing in the cause, including parents that don't want to see their kids maimed or dead for a cause that a lot are not even sure of. This massive protest from the U.S public could start with clashes and then start with all kinds of disputes when people start getting arrested. This could then pit those americans that are pro for the wars (pro draft) and those that are con for the wars (against the draft). It could be a very large portion that are against it all and might even be half of America as it seems the country is and has been divided for a while now on the way our Gov't. is handling things...
This all in effect could then start the beginings of a civil war. This could easily happen to you. If the draft started they could be telling you that you have to go fight now in some wars that you may not even be totally sure about...what would you do?


[edit on 10-6-2005 by humbled_one]




posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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No, John Titor stated that the supposed new civil war would be results of Waco-type events. Or so he said from the future.

Where's Futureboy when you really needed him the most?!



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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This has been beaten to death so many times in the past i have lost count.

Titor is a hoax, self confessed hoax.

Case closed.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Like i said, this is NOT really about what Titor said or if he was real or not. I am just giving a possible and i feel plausable scenario I can see possibly happening with the way things are actually going right now...

[edit on 10-6-2005 by humbled_one]



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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A Civil War will not start in America unless:

Something huge happens. MILLIONS of lives are lost and the WHOLE country is effected. The government is no longer able to function leading to a power void. With no law and order....civil war breaks out between factions trying to gain power.


All this war over a draft, or war between police and civillians is extremely unlikely. It's just not going to happen with the way Americans are and with the way this country is set up.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Civil war over a draft ... i doubt it, if it did happen, it would be the government aginist the people. it would not be the people aginist the people, well at least we know what side the government will take and what side will win now lol. but i do belivied that US is in a path to civil war between the government and the people like starting with banning of all guns. but if we get a president and congress that really care about the people not how much $$$ signs they have things can change...


of course we know that's not going to happen, after all money is power and money talks.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by ulshadow]



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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blah blah blah, nothing can start a civil war here in the US. The populace has no backbone, at this point the government can and will do whatever they want, and the people like the cell block hoes they are will take it. I mean really, weve had cause to get pissed a few times but stood by and let the chips fall. Its past the point of fixing, so why even bother to dull your brain by considering the joke of a civil war in the US. Come one people, get with the bleak and black outlook that is reality...



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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humbled_one,,,I think you are right on about this senario..I absolutely think this will happen. I know that it will. There is to much evidence pointing to this exact situation. Its so painfully clear, that most people try and say otherwise. But infact this is going to happen.Great observation..



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Thanks Lucidvisions for agreeing.
Alternateheaven, you really are not making any valid points, you seem to be just blowing off hotair. You say things have happened in America that the American public would have already risen up against and you are wrong. For there to be a civil war, a large percentage of Americans would have to feel that they are threatened and their way of life is very threatened. This has not happened. However, the fact is that not only about half of America is questioning this whole war in Iraq, but also most of the world is against the fact that we went to Iraq. With all the reports coming in of American troops being maimed and killed right now in a war that half of America is not even sure about, if this gov't. we have were to go and just attack Iran or someone else, it would indeed have people refusing to go fight and die or be maimed for causes that they are not willing to die for. Your point about American's not having a backbone is off also. There are militia type groups that would stand off against the Gov't. There are also a lot of troops coming home now from Iraq, that are really pissed off about all the money being spent over there when their own towns here in America are hurting for money and can't get it. Read the last issue of TIME magazine and what some troops are saying about all that. do you think all the soilders coming home from reserve units, if they need to be called again because of the shortage, do you think all of them are actually going to go through all that again when they are already in disagreement with the war they just left? There are a lot of factors here that add up to the big picture of the possiblity of a draft starting a type of civil war. It may not be civilian against civilian, it may just be the public against the authorities and that does not mena that all authoriteis may follow their orders either...



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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It really is a pipe dream, even with the points you make.

Soldiers coming home from war arent going to take up arms against their goverment even if they have been shafted and are angry, I would bet most would just like peace and to get on with their lives, not to bring the horrors of Iraq across the water to their homeland.

Militias are extreme miniorities, and seldom carry out anything they rant about. Even if they have the will to actually take up arms against the goverment, they are outgunned and out matched in every single category possible from weapons and training to organization and support networks. It would take a short ammount of time to squash any militias willing to rise up. You cannot lead a civil when your holed up in your compound trying not to choke on the CS gas being pumped in regularly by the military.

You want reasons to rise up? How about the incident at Rube Ridge where FBI snipers killed a woman holding a baby that posed no direct threat to anyone? Waco where CS sparked a fire that burnt down the compound killing everyone in it? Or better yet how about Kent State were protesters were gunned down by a unit that was not supposed to even have live ammunition? We've had plenty of reasons over the years, but when it comes time to put up or shut up we turn mute.

Look at the resistance to the last draft during Vietnam, there was plenty of displeasure with the goverment, and some did act up a bit, but in the end they went and died, just as they were directed to do. When our supposedly superior military force was spanked hard by the North Vietnamese we should have been hungry for the blood of the politicans who sent us there in the first place, but we sat back, let out a sigh, then changed the channel.

If you believe for on second that america will trade its couch and tv for a flak vest and a rifle aginast the federal government, your stuck in a dream of throwing off a government that far outweighs the people and always will. Another fact is that for all the talk of excising the government, I hear no talk of what to replace it with. I offer up an appropriate quote from a document anyone wanting to overthrow the goverment should know front to back and back to front.


That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.


Even the founding fathers whos blood, sweat and lives built this country understood the name of the game. We do opt to suffer even when we could do something about it and now that so much has transpired we are so weak that even if we did grow the backbone to rise up, we would be ground under the heel of the goverment that is supposed to serve us.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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Alternativeheaven. Again you are not reading what i am saying and your points do not make sense. READ this. You say that soliders would just want peace and to get on with their lives, yea, that's right and that's why i said if there is such a shortage of troops that the soliders that just left Iraq wanting to get on with their lives as you yourself put it, they could indeed be called again to go back to war in Iraq or elsewhere.do you really think that they are going to want to go again, especailly if they are not agreeing with what is going on. Instead of just wanting to argue with me because you want to blow off hot air, read what i wrote, you are in a sense making my points valid with what you said about the soilders.
As far as the incidents you gave for the american public to rise up, they hold no reason for the american public to rise up, are you serious? for the american public to rise up, it would have to be an event that will affect a HUGE number of Americans. None of the incidents you gave even come close to affrcting the lives of a huge amonut of Americans. Were the incidents you gave examples of injustice? Quite possibly, but not something that affect a huge amonut of American lives for them to "rise up"
A draft, espcially in the tense times we are living in and half the American public not for our current gov't. would definately affect a HUGE amonut of American's. YOU say they are to lazy to fight back because they want to watch TV? Again you are proving my points as they would not have a choice of being lazy and watching TV as they'd be being drafted to go fight in wars. You are simply proving the points i am making with your own statements.
Also i myself am not talking about overthrowing the gov't as you put it, i am simply givng an example on how a type of civil war could start. I never said anything about replacing the gov't. Also i actually was a soldier in the regular Army for 3 years and i spent 1 year in Korea so please don't tell me how soldiers think. We are humans just like you who have feelings about what is right and wrong...

[edit on 10-6-2005 by humbled_one]



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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I personally don't see a civil war happening in the states over the draft. The 2000 elections had Gore win and yet Bush was given the presidency... where was a civil war there? If any time you'd think there'd be an uprising you'd think something like that would propell the American people.

On a side note, i think people should be overthrowing their governments, Republican, Democrat, (in Canada NDP, Conservative, Liberal) they're all pretty much the same, people who lie to you, who don't listen to you, running YOUR country.

Why do people everywhere just put up with this? Why don't people start their own party, one made up of everyday people, and not these rich elites that are always elected into power.

All over ATS people complain about their government's mis-deeds, lies and half-truths. I mean people everywhere are sick of being lied to, we live in a democracy (last I checked) everyone is allowed to run, so why the hell would'nt people support some regular person running whose exactly like the rest of us who are fed up.

You might say im an idealist, but what i just described shouldnt be seen as ideal because it's not, it's the way it's supposed to be. I just think that people should have more power over there government, and if every 4 years we are just going thru the motions of "democracy" then we aren't doing enough, we need better representation we need to have more of a say, and we need a change.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by humbled_one
Weather or not Titor really was a time traveler or not,


Some people do not know how to read! Why even post something as stupid as TITOR is a FAKE ... when this was the first line that the original poster made.

I hope those posting the 1 line posts: Titor is a Fake. Get a warning and a point deduction from the MODS ... in fairness.

BTW< Titor is coming true ... look around you. As scary as it seems, you need to wake up and stop living in denial.


Originally posted by humbled_one
since they are so short on troops, not to mention current troops are so stressed out already, what else could they do but start up the draft again (forcing people into the wars).


It all over the local news here that the Military is looking for new recruits that at this level war with IRAQ unsustainable ... and un-winnable. Uncle Sam Wants You posters are starting to come back ... and that means that the higher ups are starting to look at a draft. Why do you think they made us all sign the Draft ticket after turning 18. They knew that 1 day the American Govt. will need a draft...they thought it would be Russia.


Originally posted by humbled_one
Now, thing is there are probably at least half of Americans that don't think the current war in Iraq is going like it should and a lot even question if we should have gone in the first place or should even still be there.


I was PRO-IRAQ war in the beggining ... I am PRO-IRAQ war still. But I am NOT Pro-Iran or Pro-NK War. No way! Those 2 nations are tough... Iraq was weak and sitting on a lot of OIL. Iraq made sense. Those other 2 nations...who may or may not have NUKES...are not worth it.

If there was a draft, i would take my family and move to Canada. If they didn't let me in Canada, i would go into hiding. I am not dieing so that the Weapons Manufacturors and Haiberton can make Billions of dollars, and so the King George can go down in history as The Great Liberator



Originally posted by humbled_one
This could then pit those americans that are pro for the wars (pro draft) and those that are con for the wars (against the draft).


You see how it ties in nicely with TITOR ...

Its not the Govt. vs. the People. Its the Govt and the Pro-Govt. People vs. Anti-War People.

OK now look at the election county map... as TITOR mentioned.

The CITIES voted for KERRY = Anti-War
The RURAL COUNTY FOLK voted for BUSH = Pro=WAR

TITOR said it would be the Cities vs. the RURALS... Titor was a member of the CITIES as he was ANTI-WAR... but then his family moved to a RURAL community to hide away from the cities. He said that his side won the war.



GREAT POST !




posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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Some people do not know how to read! Why even post something as stupid as TITOR is a FAKE ... when this was the first line that the original poster made.

I hope those posting the 1 line posts: Titor is a Fake. Get a warning and a point deduction from the MODS ... in fairness.


What one lines?


BTW< Titor is coming true ... look around you. As scary as it seems, you need to wake up and stop living in denial.


Wheres the civil war? titor said it would happen by now, Cant you see, its a hoax, search the threads on ATS, you will see it all debunked.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Infinate, what he is saying is that you and others wrote one lines about Titor being fake. However in my first sentence i stated this post is not about if Titor is fake or not but about one possible way i could see a civil war starting in America over the draft and added wars in Iran, N. Korea, Syria, etc...The post was not about Titor, so there is no need for one liners saying he is fake, the post is about do others see the possiblity i posted as a possiblity of something that could start a civil war...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by humbled_one
Infinate, what he is saying is that you and others wrote one lines about Titor being fake. However in my first sentence i stated this post is not about if Titor is fake or not but about one possible way i could see a civil war starting in America over the draft and added wars in Iran, N. Korea, Syria, etc...The post was not about Titor, so there is no need for one liners saying he is fake, the post is about do others see the possiblity i posted as a possiblity of something that could start a civil war...


All the talk is based around the titor theory, thats why everyone is talking about a civil war


for years, since 91, theres been rumours of a civil war...it will not happen. The use will not go to war with either Iran, N.Korea of Syria.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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Just giving an example of how it could go down, not saying it will actually happen. As far as the future though, neither you or i can say it will or it won't. Before 911, people laughed at terrorist's threats and said "they'll never do anything, it'll never happen". It did happen though, did'nt it? If 911 though me anything and if the way the current U.S. gov't seems to act teaches me anything, it's that anything can happen...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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We are in one now.

A civil cold war.

It's not red state versus blue state, but more rural versus urban, and rural is currently winning. If this cold civil war turns hot, remember, we ruralites have more guns.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:44 AM
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when the oil runs out...this is why the US says they are going into countries 'to fight terrorists', but its really to ensure that the oil crisis we saw manufactured by OPEC in the 70's doesnt happen again in the US...or so the conspirists say.
Anyways, civil war in the US is unlikely, due to the fact most people are too brow beaten by celebrity worship, starbucks or baby's mama's drama to care about anything. Which may be good, may be bad.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by alternateheaven
It really is a pipe dream, even with the points you make.

Soldiers coming home from war arent going to take up arms against their goverment even if they have been shafted and are angry.

Militias are extreme miniorities, and seldom carry out anything they rant about.

You want reasons to rise up? How about the incident at Rube Ridge where FBI snipers killed a woman holding a baby that posed no direct threat to anyone? Waco where CS sparked a fire that burnt down the compound killing everyone in it? Or better yet how about Kent State were protesters were gunned down by a unit that was not supposed to even have live ammunition? We've had plenty of reasons over the years, but when it comes time to put up or shut up we turn mute.

Look at the resistance to the last draft during Vietnam, there was plenty of displeasure with the goverment, and some did act up a bit, but in the end they went and died, just as they were directed to do.

Even the founding fathers whos blood, sweat and lives built this country understood the name of the game. We do opt to suffer even when we could do something about it and now that so much has transpired we are so weak that even if we did grow the backbone to rise up, we would be ground under the heel of the goverment that is supposed to serve us.


Oh HumbledOne, just exactly what will it take to start a civil war? These were prime examples of Constitutional Violations but civil war never happened. Do we wait for YOUR rights to be deprived? I really don't care about your rights, after all you didn't care about the people in these examples did you?

Are you waiting on a government law that violates the Constitution? Well, those laws have been in existence for years.

People were against WW1 and WW2. But government sent us here any way.

The people protested the Vietnam War in major numbers but that never started a civil war. So that debunks your theory.

Our soldiers are being lied to right now and forced to re-inlist. They are being told to voluntarily re-inlist for 4 years or the paper work can be signed giving them 20 years. Is this right? Absolutely, NO! Do you even care???

Future wars will be started with the same propaganda as Iraq. No questions will be asked when the future wars start. We will assume the government is right when the war starts, just like Iraq.



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