One possible way a civil war could start in America (still not saying Titor was real though...)

Qwas, yea, ok, if you say so...first, the majority of people were not aginst WW1 or WW2, they were both justified causes/wars. second, the military is not making people sign up an extra 4 years - when you sign up it is actually for 8 years no matter what. however 4-6 of those years are when you are not actully active duty and more but you can be called back at any time, it's called IRR. The military is using that other 4 years as you call it as simply saying we need you so you can not go IRR at this time. Also they can not force anyone to enlist for 20 yrs, so where are you coming up with that?
As far as Vietnam, a lot of people learned from that war and hoe corrupt those sitting at the desks can be. Also a few people on this thread keep saying that Americans won't carer about a draft because they are to concerned about tv, starbucks, etc. That's the point you fasil to see. Americans won't be able to enjoy those things if they are called off to War in a draft , now are they? Americans do not want to leave the comforts of their lives to go to Iraq or other possible wars. Especially now that people see how the Iraq war is going and how it looks like it is going to be going for a long time. Also when there is a draft it's not like it's just freash out of high school 18 yr olds going, it's 18 - 35 yr olds and possibly older...

John Titor has given us some clues as to what the reasons will be for the initialisation of the US civil war in 2005.

John Titor: "There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. "They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong." "It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005."
("When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city." "Yes civil liberties are more important. You will feel the same after having your house searched a couple of times.")

The renewed Patriot Act and it's additions in order to expand law enforcement powers agreed upon in secret meetings, has even angered a lot of Conservative Leaders usually known as the most vocal allies of President Bush and Republican leadership.

Titor said that the civil war/conflict would not be about "taking and holding ground" but it would be about "order and rights." "They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."

The bill in order to expand law enforcement powers under the renewed US Patriot Act 2005 would empower the FBI to write its own subpoenas without permission from a judge in seeking personal information of all sorts, records from hotels, banks and including Internet service providers.

Additionally, this legislation would allow the FBI to order post offices to let it photocopy the envelopes of anything sent to individuals it targets.

This opens the door to house searches just as John Titor mentioned it.

The act's provisions allow "sneak, peak" searches for people who aren't suspected of terrorism or espionage. The over-arching invasion of privacy and lack of due process in routine matters far outside of the "war on terrorism" is the real problem with the Patriot Act.

When a judge is convinced that invasive action fits within the "war on terrorism," he or she will consent.

And voila, there you have it. The Federal Powers under the US Patriot Act will create "conflict" at the very moment when people will come to realize their freedoms and their privacy have been gone.

Question: Will you readily be able to identify the enemy?
John Titor: “They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process.”
Question: Does the civil war start in such a way that those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations.
John Titor: “Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.”

Furthermore the Government seems to be in an incredible hurry to implement the renewed Patriot Act. Why is that? War on Terror?

Or might there be a relation between the Government's hidden knowledge of global oil-production peak in 2005 and the incredible hurry from within the Government to implement the renewed Patriot Act in 2005? After all, why such a hurry? Why so much pressure?

www.evworld.com...
Now we are faced with the global oil-production peak………the most knowledgeable experts revised their predictions and now concur that 2005 is apt to be the year of all-time global peak production. It will change everything about how we live.

We know that our national leaders are hardly uninformed about this predicament. President George W. Bush has been briefed on the dangers of the oil-peak situation as long ago as before the 2000 election and repeatedly since then. In March, the Department of Energy released a report that officially acknowledges for the first time that peak oil is for real and states plainly that "the world has never faced a problem like this. Without massive mitigation more than a decade before the fact, the problem will be pervasive and will not be temporary."

It seems that the Government wants to make sure that they will have the population under control when the SHTF...

Finally, as Humbled_One pointed out, I believe that the draft will return and definitely will not helping matters. It is in agreement with John Titor's answer to the question: Was a lot of the US 18-24 age group killed in the war because of a draft? "Yes."

Could the draft return as a cause of the expected war with Iran?

JT: "It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005."

globalpolitician.com...
Russia's Alliance With America's Enemies
by Ryan Mauro - 5/16/2005

"And now, the bold state of Iran is openly expecting an American
assault and accelerating the pace of the reconstruction of ties with
the Arab states, and the construction of a Russian nuclear reactor
at Bushehr, which will allow Iran to have nuclear weapons in 2005."

www.antiwar.com...
The Bush-Bolton Plan to Bomb Bushehr
by Jude Wanniski - 5/16/2005
Memo to: Republican senators

Buried down in Saturday's New York Times report on President Bush
reaffirming his unqualified support for John Bolton as UN ambassador
is the reason why almost all of you are ready to vote for his
confirmation.

"Republicans are hoping to shame Democrats into a quick vote on Mr.
Bolton. They argue that he needs to be in place by June so that the
United States will have the latitude it needs to press its concerns
about Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program before the Security
Council."

Why the big rush? My reliable sources tell me it is because there is
a timetable that makes it urgent for Bolton to be ready for action in
June in order to cripple the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) as
part of the plan to bomb the Iranian nuclear power plant at Bushehr.

That's because Bushehr, under construction with Russian supervision,
will soon be ready to receive the Russian fissionable material
enabling it to produce power. In 1981, remember Republican senators,
Israel bombed the Osiraq nuclear power plant near Baghdad just before
it was to be fueled by its French contractors.

Once fueled, bombing is out of the question because of the radiation
that would be emitted, with clouds traveling who knows where.

When will the oil rations start...

Now that would be good times. SUV owners versus everyone else!

Americans are afraid of their government, and afraid of what their technology could do to them, they are just a little slow in realizing it.

Sun spot cycles every eleven years... For example 1935 to 1946, now that period had its ups and downs. But did it really end on a high note?

We are approaching the 60 year anniversary, and I think there is a lot to be said for the first generation in a LONG time to know MEGA death, destruction on a massive scale, which is all but forgotten now, and imminent in its repition.

Regards to all of you and do not forget:

"Perhaps the end that we fear will open your eyes to your true value as an individual. Young people need wisdom. The captain of the ship knows where the lifeboats are."

www.timetravelforum.net...

Roth Joint

Well to all of those that thought a draft was not going to happen, we are now one step closer, here the news link:
www.americanfreepress.net...
and for those of you that said we will not go to war with Iran, here the news link
srirangan.net...
Both the above news links just happened recently. Both are what i pointed out in this thread i started about things that could happen that could start the beginings of a civil war in America...




[edit on 13-6-2005 by humbled_one]

so........the average american family sits down to dinner, mom dad, and two teenage boys (convenient !).

Dad -"look ma, there on the news it says there's gonn be a draft. the bush guy is crazy"

mom-" not my boys"

son #1 -"heck no, we won't go"

Son #2 - "thats it, I'm gonna get my rifle and kill every republican I can find"



huh ? how does a draft cause civil war ? isn't that a contridiction ?

HIGH PRIEST, the thing that i see you and a lot of others missing is that you keep thinking it is only "boys" that are going to be calles into a draft. They can call 18-35 yr olds. That means a lot of people who are already set in their ways , have careers that they may lose , not to mention a way of life they have been living. It's not just going to be "high school grads" that are called. Alos soldiers who already served in Iraq will more then likely be called to go throough the crap they already went throuhg, except now it may be in another country. There are a lot of soldiers coming home that are really pissed off at the gov't and the way things are being run in Iraq (it goes ll the way up to high ranking officers that do not like how things are going). Read the 2nd to last issue of Time magazine where they interviews a mayor and police cheif that just came home who are pissed that millions are being spent in Iraq but they can't even get money for a new water system back in their home town...
Also it would not start with people "getting their guns" and going against the gov't. It would start with people simply refusing to go along with the draft, and they the authorites trying to force then to, which would lead to altercations. After a while it get more and more heated as more and more "altercations" start happening...

[edit on 13-6-2005 by humbled_one]

In my opinion, if there ever is a civil war in America, which I highly doubt there ever would be..BUT, if there were I think it would be between the Democrats and Republicans. But, hey that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by zenlover28
In my opinion, if there ever is a civil war in America, which I highly doubt there ever would be..BUT, if there were I think it would be between the Democrats and Republicans. But, hey that's just my opinion.

John Titor:

"There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years."

"I don’t believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out."

"You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."

Q: Is the conflict racial?
JT: "Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems."

"I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict."

"When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas."

"From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard."

"There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict. They did have the Dew Line you know."

"As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004."

"By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep"

"How can you possibly criticize me for any conflict that comes to you?"

"However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict."

America is not primed for a civil war, been there , done that. I agree with an earlier poster that the only way a civil war would occur would be if something occured that eliminated gov't and there was not control in the country. It is not going to be suburbs vs city or citizens vs law enforcement. We have also had a draft before thus that is just not enough to get our blood boiling.

It will take a major event that shakes the country apart and disrupts gov't and communication for such a thing to happen. We Americans talk a good talk but we are not about to throw away our McDonalds and Disneylands to prove a point.

Originally posted by Memorialday1999
America is not primed for a civil war, been there , done that. I agree with an earlier poster that the only way a civil war would occur would be if something occured that eliminated gov't and there was not control in the country. It is not going to be suburbs vs city or citizens vs law enforcement. We have also had a draft before thus that is just not enough to get our blood boiling.

It will take a major event that shakes the country apart and disrupts gov't and communication for such a thing to happen. We Americans talk a good talk but we are not about to throw away our McDonalds and Disneylands to prove a point.

What about the "Minutemen Project?"

Foes say it's time to stop Minutemen
Web Posted: 06/25/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Brian Chasnoff and Christopher Anderson
Express-News Staff Writers

About 20 people representing San Antonio labor, civil rights and veterans groups took to the steps of City Hall on Friday to decry the growing presence of the Minutemen in Texas.

The Minuteman Project, a civilian border-watch organization, established its first Texas affiliate this week in Goliad after an April launch in Arizona. The activists labeled the organization a group of racist, un-American vigilantes.

"Where are the Minutemen on the Canada border?" said Rosa Rosales, national vice president of the League of United Latin American Citizens Southwest. "Where you see dark-brown faces coming across, that's where they're at."

Bill Parmley, a Goliad rancher and an organizer of the group's Texas chapter, denied allegations that the Minutemen use racial profiling in their initiative against undocumented immigration.

"We're not looking at the people," Parmley said. "We're looking at what they have done in order to create attention on themselves."

Parmley said his group adheres to the law, avoiding direct contact with immigrants and reporting incidents of trespassing to local law enforcement agencies.

Rosales said the government should prevent any Minuteman members from deploying along the border with Mexico.

"We want a plan of action to stop these Minutemen from taking the law into their own hands," she said.

Although Gov. Rick Perry does not condone the Minutemen's approach to securing the border, he can't stop them from assembling, said Robert Black, a Perry spokesman.

"The governor can't tell private citizens they can't go to the border," Black said. "There's nothing that the governor can do unless these individuals break the law."

Border security must be resolved at the federal level between the United States and Mexico, Black said.

Friday's protesters said the group's aims conflict with American values.

Tony Mandujano, a retired Army captain and a member of the Alamo Chapter of the Military Officers Association of America, said the group's motive goes against the U.S. tradition of welcoming immigrants and that it smacks of totalitarianism.

"We should not construct an iron curtain on the Southern border," Mandujano said.

ed. to shorten link

[edit on 25-6-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Think about it what you want....

John Titor: "I realize my claims are a bit ridiculous but my intent is not really to be believed." "You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."


Group Vows to Oppose "Minutemen"

LAST UPDATE: 6/24/2005 10:56:19 PM
Posted By: Jim Forsyth

Several south Texas civil rights activists today announced plans to
stop the civilian volunteer organization called the "Minutemen" from
holding a planned anti illegal immigration operation on the Texas
Mexico border in October.

"This is nothing short of a brazen call to arms against our
government," Antonio Diaz, who attended the Minutemen organization
meeting in Goliad Monday night, told a city hall news
conference. "This leaves no doubt in my mind that this group is one
extremely dangerous, anarchist organization."

Many activists expressed concerns that the Minutemen would 'stop
Hispanics on the streets and ask for papers,' and some compared the
volunteer group to Adolf Hitler's Nazi party.

"When I was at the meeting in Goliad on Monday I was thinking, 'the
National Socialist Party in Germany, otherwise known as Nazis, must
have started like this'," Diaz told 1200 WOAI news.

The organization said it will urge elected representatives ranging
from the San Antonio City Council to the Texas Legislature, to pass
resolutions against the minutemen, which Rosa Rosales of the League
of United Latin American Citizens says has 'no respect for the rule
of law.'

"This is a human rights issue, and that's the way it should be
treated," Rosales said. "They are violating human rights."

The San Antonio group is one of many forming across Texas to oppose
the Minutemen in the wake of it's organizing effort in Goliad this
week. The Contra MInuteman Coalition was formed Thursday in Corpus
Christi with the same goal.

"The modern day Minutemen is a problem to American justice and the
American system," veteran labor activist Jaime Martinez said.

Many of the demonstrators carried signs reading "Amnestia," demanding
amnesty for illegal aliens now in the U.S. The news conference was
held behind a banner showing the Statue of Liberty behind a barbed
wire fence and carrying the message, "No Human Being is Illegal."

"I don't want to be stopped in the streets here in San Antonio
because I sound foreign or look foreign, by a stranger who will stop
me and ask me for papers," Martinez said.

The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps said they have no plans to 'stop
people and ask for papers,' and simply want to be 'an extra set of
eyes and ears' for the U.S. Border Patrol and other authorities
trying to diminish what volunteers see as a growing problem of
illegal immigration.

There were no complaints of civil rights violations when a Minuteman
chapter patrolled the Arizona-Mexico border in April, although the
effectiveness of the group in preventing illegal aliens from entering
the U.S. from Mexico is debated.

Members of the anti Minutemen coalition cited President Bush's
comments during an appearance with Mexico's President Vicente Fox in
Waco in March in which he called the MInutemen 'vigilantes.'

Minuteman organizer Chris Simcox says he hopes to form four Minuteman
chapters in Texas, and have the volunteers patrolling the Texas
border this fall.

Taken from:
www.woai.com...
4AD1-89A7-D589435345C5




[edit on 26-6-2005 by Roth Joint]

What we need is the seperation of government and money.

I see that many people believe that a majority is needed to launch a revolution/civil war. Lest we forget that only 17% of the colonialists openly supported secession from GB in 1776. It was about the same percentage against the war (loyal to king George) and the rest (the majority) couldn't care either way. This is no isolated instance, but it is said that moevemnts begin with an average of 10% of the population and usually in the countryside.

I can't see the draft being the sole or even main factor leading to a physical confrontation but it could definately be a cause. Lets look at some recent facts; real ID, CAFTA, emminent domain. I could easily see these leading to civil war someday.

the real ID- Not enough is known yet, we gotta wait until 2008 to see it's full effects. It could simply be a 'federal' driver's license with basically the same info on it. On the other hand it could contain all those goodies to help uncle fud track our whereabouts constantly. The retenal scan,and the RFID chips could be placed into it. Will people accept this assult on our basic civil liberties?

CAFTA- For those who don't know, Central America Free Trade Agreement. It is simply NAFTA grown larger. Also we know that NAFTA did nothing for our country except loose roughly a million good paying jobs, while not even helping Mexico which its supporters said that is the least NAFTA will do! These so called free trade agreements have very little about trade, why else would we need thousands of pages of laws, restrictions and regulations when we are supposedly just trading with neighboring countries. It is more about transfering our soverngity to a regional EU type gov't, which is simply a prelude to global gov't.

Emminent Domain- If there is anything about our gov't that would make you sick this is it! Private property is one of the most common form of God given rights. If our property is not safe, I ask what is? This is definately something that should wake up the sheeple because it might just be you next.

I didn't have to mention how all 10 planks of the communist mannifesto are firmly in place, and actually have more standing than out very own CONstitution has. Well I don't feel like going any further so remember we already have many serious greviances that must be settled, just hopefully without bloodshed.

Originally posted by zenlover28
In my opinion, if there ever is a civil war in America, which I highly doubt there ever would be..BUT, if there were I think it would be between the Democrats and Republicans. But, hey that's just my opinion.

That is about the most awful thing i could imagin, in all honesty that would just spit in the face of what america has stood for since it's creation. unlike the civil war which had sides (north, and south) Their would be no sides, no front line. It would turn into every man for himself. best friends against best friends. Who would be left standing? America is about the right of believing in something and whatever it is you believe in is... OK. it's about freedom to be yourself. this would just be the most horrific war and would be the end of the "new age Rome". GOD pray this never happens.