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chinas new aircraft carrier?

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posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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Apparently China is enlarging the ShangHai and Dalian shipyards alot. Here is the article, the ship yard is to become the world's biggest shipyard and soon China shall construct 25% of the world's total water displacement tonnage.




Ground broken for huge Shanghai shipyard
BEIJING - Construction started on Friday on what will become the world's largest shipyard, marking a major step forward in China's ambition to become the world's leading shipbuilder.

In the first phase of the US$3.6 billion project, the Jiangnan Shipyard Corp, a subsidiary of the China State Shipbuilding Corp (CSSC), is relocating to Changxing Island to make way for Shanghai Expo 2010. The Jiangnan Shipyard will expand its shipbuilding capacity from the current 800,000 deadweight tons (DWT) a year to 4.5 million by 2010. The yard's first ship is expected to be delivered by 2009.

In the second phase of development, CSSC's subsidiaries, such as Hudong and Waigaoqiao, will add more yards along Changxing island's eight-kilometer coastline. By 2015, CSCC is expected to have an annual capacity of 8 million DWTs, half of China's current production capacity. By then, Changxing is expected to have become the world's largest shipyard. Shanghai will also become the world's largest shipbuilding base, tripling its capacity to 12 million DWTs by 2015. "The central government has called on China to become the largest shipbuilder in the world. The Changxing base is the most important step forward in this plan," said CSSC General Manager Chen Xiaojin on Friday.

The shipbuilding industry is valuable to the Chinese government since it promotes domestic manufacturing and machinery industries, creates job opportunities and revenue, and improves the country's naval capability. The country's shipbuilding industry has achieved an annual average growth of 17% over the past few years and China now accounts for a quarter of the world's shipbuilding market, up from less than 5% five years ago. Japan and South Korea each account for one-third of the global shipbuilding market. "With the construction of Changxing, we are breathing down the necks of Japan and South Korea," Xu Lunfang, senior engineer at CSSC's Chengxi Shipyard, said. "The market competition is set to intensify."

Chen said the Changxing yard offers CSSC an unprecedented opportunity to develop its business, as the global shipbuilding market is still expanding. The yard will also increase Chinese production of high-tech and high-value-added ships, including liquefied natural gas carriers and oil supertankers.

Friday also witnessed the 140th anniversary of the Jiangnan Shipyard. The yard was founded in 1865, during the former Qing Dynasty, and was the first factory in China to produce steel, naval ships and steel cannon. Previously known as Jiangnan Machine Manufacturing, it was renamed Jiangnan Shipbuilding Works in 1912. Also known as the Kiangnan Dock and Engineering Works, in the 1920s the shipyard built six new river gunboats to replace old gunboats on the Yangtze for the US Navy's South China Patrol. In the closing days of World War II, the docks at Kiangnan Dock and Engineering Works were used to repair US Navy ships. The facility was renamed the Jiangnan Shipyard in 1949. In 1996 the yard was transformed into the solely state-owned Jiangnan Shipyard (Group) Company Limited.

The yard is regarded as cradle of China's national shipping industry. With more than 130 years experience in developing and building various kinds of merchant ships, Jiangnan has successfully delivered to its customers in Europe, the US and Southeast Asia a large variety of highly sophisticated vessels, such as liquefied natural gas (LNG) carriers, car carriers, crab ships, refrigerated ships, crude oil tankers, Panamax bulk carriers, Handymax bulk carriers, lake-suitable bulk carriers, multi-purpose cargo ships, fast-feeder container ships, and others. LNG carriers, in particular, have become one of the major products of the shipyard in the past years. The prices of these special ships with high-technology features are two to three times greater than those of a normal vessel of the same tonnage. Of the total value (US$17.9 billion) created by China Shipping Industry General Corp in 1995, that from Shanghai Shipping Industry Corp (SSI) accounted for 50%.

Apart from new ship construction, Jiangnan Shipyard has specific divisions specializing in manufacturing pressurized tanks for LNG carriers, large steel structures for civil engineering, a variety of mechanical and electrical equipment, non-standard equipment, pressure containers, and port machinery. The shipyard has been certified for the ISO 9001 quality standards by the relevant authorities within China.

(Asia Pulse/XIC)


Related link: www.atimes.com...





posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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The way you tell that a nation is expanding or building certain kinds of ships is to look for certain kinds of material acquisition. You dont have to know everything that is being done in a shipyard or an aircraft industry. You just have to know what the state of the art is and what internal components leave tell tale traces of acquisition in any economy. There are teams of dedicated peoples looking for industries world wide and to whom and what they ship and manufacture. Mechanical, electrical, certain peculear petro chemical or lubricants etc etc etc.
Certain kinds of coatings and paints is another one. Large quantities of stainless steels. All telltale signs of certain kinds of construction trends.
I can assure you that many nations have dedicated teams of peoples who watch for these traces. Often narry a word is spoken about this to the general public. Why would you want anyone to know what your actual capabilities are in this arena.?? If the public does find out it is because it is desired that they know.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
The way you tell that a nation is expanding or building certain kinds of ships is to look for certain kinds of material acquisition. You dont have to know everything that is being done in a shipyard or an aircraft industry. You just have to know what the state of the art is and what internal components leave tell tale traces of acquisition in any economy. There are teams of dedicated peoples looking for industries world wide and to whom and what they ship and manufacture. Mechanical, electrical, certain peculear petro chemical or lubricants etc etc etc.
Certain kinds of coatings and paints is another one. Large quantities of stainless steels. All telltale signs of certain kinds of construction trends.
I can assure you that many nations have dedicated teams of peoples who watch for these traces. Often narry a word is spoken about this to the general public. Why would you want anyone to know what your actual capabilities are in this arena.?? If the public does find out it is because it is desired that they know.

Thanks,
Orangetom


wait a second i have never mentioned anything about shipwards. dont direct this post to me. i was mentioning the t-98 tank not a carrier



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
You mean non one in the civilian realm knew of the Type 98, you seem so confident that every government in the world did not know anything abut the type 98.



If so, may I ask, who? As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing on the Type-98 back then. And back then, people looked at photoshopped Lavis as J-10s, until there were REAL pictures released.

[edit on 17/6/05 by W4rl0rD]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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warload please edit your post..



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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If so, may I ask, who? As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing on the Type-98 back then. And back then, people looked at photoshopped Lavis as J-10s, until there were REAL pictures released.



Again all that you are talking about is referring to the civilian realm. If intelligence services had photos and info they were not going to release it to the public so that you and I can see it, comm. you know how it is.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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Lets just say intelligence could have picked up all these, but it just isn't a credible answer. You mentioned intelligence would have known all these, well, if China was building a carrier, the intelligence wouldn't have released all that info to you or me, would they?

My point is, you just debunked your own statement. After all, even if the military did know about that, we are still part of the "civillian" population, and wouldn't know about it even if it did exist.

[edit on 18/6/05 by W4rl0rD]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:04 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

If so, may I ask, who? As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing on the Type-98 back then. And back then, people looked at photoshopped Lavis as J-10s, until there were REAL pictures released.



Again all that you are talking about is referring to the civilian realm. If intelligence services had photos and info they were not going to release it to the public so that you and I can see it, comm. you know how it is.


i doubt they wouldn't release them



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:16 AM
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I doubt that the Varyag is going to be used for military purposes. Recent sources state that the Varyag will be made into a floating Casino cum Hotel, read this link: www.globalsecurity.org...


As of early 2001 the Varyag was off the coast of Bulgaria, under tow by a tug manned by a Chinese crew. It remained anchored in the Black Sea for months awaiting a go-ahead. Turkey allowed the Varyag to pass through the Bosphorus in October 2001, after China pledged to pay for any damages that might result. The Varyag reached the Chinese port of Dalian in February 2001 for a refit into a floating casino and hotel, before being towed to Macau.




[edit on 18/6/05 by W4rl0rD]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
I doubt that the Varyag is going to be used for military purposes. Recent sources state that the Varyag will be made into a floating Casino cum Hotel, read this link: www.globalsecurity.org...


As of early 2001 the Varyag was off the coast of Bulgaria, under tow by a tug manned by a Chinese crew. It remained anchored in the Black Sea for months awaiting a go-ahead. Turkey allowed the Varyag to pass through the Bosphorus in October 2001, after China pledged to pay for any damages that might result. The Varyag reached the Chinese port of Dalian in February 2001 for a refit into a floating casino and hotel, before being towed to Macau.


lol that was all a trick to let turkey let china take the Varyag of the black sea. the question you have to ask yourself is why would china by a carrier three times its scrap metal value and tow it across the world for heaps of money just to make a casino



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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That I have no idea. It would make sense for China to get a 60,000 ton+ carrier like the Varyag, but US pressure stopped Ukraine from selling it to the Chinese in the 90s.

China has been trying to get a carrier for quite a while. The proposed Chinese aircraft carrier could be a vessel of 40,000-50,000 tons of displacement, one similar to the French "De Gaulle-Class" nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Given the complexities of developing a new naval reactor considerably larger than the type used on PRC nuclear submarines and that a very long range is not required, conventional steam boilers would be adequate for a Chinese aircraft carrier. Russian designed steam turbines could give the carrier a top speed of 30 knots. The vessels might carry 24 combat aircraft, such as the Sukhoi-30MKK launched by a ski-jump. Below deck might be two missile launchers housing 24 missiles, either the Russian SSN-22 Sunburn or the more advanced Yakhont.

As for Carrier battlegroups, China will probably start building 10,000 ton cruisers to be convoy ships. It is also possible that China will purchase such cruisers directly from overseas, most likely the "Ukraine," a missile cruiser from Ukraine, which is now 93% completed, and then build China's own similar cruisers modeled on the "Ukraine", and also have some smaller destroyers of the Sovremenny class or Type-52 B/C. Ka-28 Helix Helicopters have also been acquired by PLAN, and they will probably be using the Helices for ASW and AEW purposes.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Notice the posting said.."Chinawhite and others" It was not exclusively dedicated to you. Sorry if you got that impression.
That posting applies to any technology ..missles , tanks, automobiles/trucks. Construction tools..medicines....they all leave a discernable fingerprint on a nations economy. That was my main point ..and that there are cadres of people trained to look for this fingerprint in any economy. I suspect that this is very much a specialized field.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Actual Chinese defence budget is less than half to a quarter of what the western sources estimated. There are plenty of ways to hide how much you are spending. As for the carrier, China is still doing plenty of research. If you call buying Ka-28s, buying the Varyag and other smaller carriers, building a small "trainer" carrier and buying the Su-30MKK2 and MKK3 specialized for Naval aviation "research" that is



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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People lets stay on topic, Chinawhites question has been answered.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Notice the posting said.."Chinawhite and others" It was not exclusively dedicated to you. Sorry if you got that impression.
That posting applies to any technology ..missles , tanks, automobiles/trucks. Construction tools..medicines....they all leave a discernable fingerprint on a nations economy. That was my main point ..and that there are cadres of people trained to look for this fingerprint in any economy. I suspect that this is very much a specialized field.

Thanks,
Orangetom


well you only mentioned aircraft carriers/ships and i have not even mention china building one in secret



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Such peoples as those to whom I refer...are trained to look at trends both by what they see and what they dont see...ie ..the abscence of certain telltale signs. This is what makes these types of peoples exceptional. Things done in the open or things done in secret..no matter. This is their specialty.
I know of several projects done without the public even being aware of them. Here in this location ..since they are public mention now and can be found on the web...the DryDeck shelters piggybacked onto the back of boomer boats is one. I watched them being built here. Several in fact. Now days there are pictures all over the place. The Stealth Fighter is another.
In some arenas certain stories surrounding these projects are legend. The Manhattan Project was in danger of being exposed publically by Harry Truman when he was a senator in Congress tracing down waste in moneys on Government Contracts. His staff had uncovered millions and millions going into a project of which so few knew even bare traces of its existance. ..and he was about to expose it when the Government cracked down on him. Ironically the final product was something he would be the one to make a decision on using when not long before he was in danger of exposing the secret.
One more thing Chinawhite...American intelligence services watch our friends as well as our enemies. Most Americans are asleep at the wheel in this concept. To much TV and peer group education going on here.
No problems here on your postings.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 02:24 AM
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I've heard a number of people express the opinion that China is a long way from having the skills and technology to man a sizable, fixed-wing carrier. But I've never heard a discussion on exactly WHAT is lacking. To a layman, other than the operations of a catapault and pilots crazy enough to land on board, it all seem very straightforward.

Also, just to throw my hat into the ring. The Varyag doesn't have any engines, unless that changes (and there's little chance it will change) I doubt it will ever put to sea under its own power again.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:22 AM
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The priblem is not so much the tech /skill that is lacking..the problem is they won't be able to parade the carrier too far off their coastline..And that defeats the purpose of a carrier.. The chinese can't hope to have any power projection in the Pacific (or any other ocean for that matter) unitl the USN is hot on their heels..
Thats why they're trying to open up in the Indian ocean via Bangladesh/Pakistan and Burma.. But then again the Indian ocean is the Indian navy's domain..Roguh seas in all directions..



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:34 AM
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umm. the Varyag just got sand-blased and a new coat of paint.




posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 05:03 AM
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The Chinese could always go for the Ulyanovsk Class CVN. The Russians were already building 2 of these half built before the Soviet Union collapsed.







80,000 tonnes and can carry upto 80 planes, she would of been a beauty.

thanks,
drfunk




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