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WAR: Bush Urges Congress To Renew Patriot Act

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posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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President George W Bush stood before Congress today and urged the renewal of the USA Patriot Act which was initially passed in the days following 911. Many in congress and the nation as a whole have expressed the opinion that portions of the Act be revised or eliminated.
 



www.reuters.com
By Steve Holland
COLUMBUS, Ohio (Reuters) - President Bush urged the U.S. Congress on Thursday to renew major provisions of the USA Patriot Act and rejected critics who have complained the post-Sept. 11 anti-terrorism law erodes civil liberties.

Sixteen sections of the Patriot Act are scheduled to expire at the end of the year, and the Bush administration fears their expiration will weaken law-enforcement tools needed to search for potential terrorists on American soil.

"My message to Congress is clear: The terrorist threats against us will not expire at the end of the year, and neither should the protections of the Patriot Act," Bush said during a visit to the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


The USA Patriot Act which was quickly passed in September of 2001 in the aftermath of 9/11 has been the subject of criticism by the ACLU and other liberal politicians and organizations due to their feeling that the Act interferes and intrudes on American civil liberties.

The Bush administration has firmly and loudly defended the
Act, declaring that it was in fact protecting Americans' liberties in the face of a terrorist threat aginst the nation.

Sixteen sections of the law are due to expire at the end of the year.

Related News Links:
www.reuters.com
colorado.indymedia.org
washingtontimes.com
releases.usnewswire.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Beware! Patriot Act II is coming!
The Patriot Act!




posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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President George W Bush stood before Congress today and urged the renewal of the USA Patriot Act

Actually he was in Columbus, Ohio, not in front of Congress. It said he urged Congress to renew the PA. I still voted it up, but you may want to fix it.

I think they should let these sections of the patriot act expire, as they were under a time limit for a reason. It is so they cannot be abused, which will probably happen. If anything, put an extension on them, but don't make them permanent.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Of course Mr Bush wants it in. However, perhaps a slashed version will make it through Congess. I mean most Congress Men/Woman would like to be re-elected. So those that wish re-election cannot vote the whole secondary Patriot Act in, so it will be a slight slash and burn deal and the extreme law points will be rejected by Congess.

That's the way I see it people. Unless your all willing to say nothing on the phone, internet or directly family or friends that you condem the Fed Gov for adopting policys which seriously reduce your freedom of speach.

Just get a better Fed Gov who has not buckled up his belt and mistakenly made enimies of long time US friends.

Dallas



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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In a related article it states "the Justice Department’s inspector general reported that 7,000 people have complained of abuse and countless others don’t even know they’ve been subjected to a search because the law requires that the searches be kept secret." The thought of being searched and not even being told about it bothers me. Bush can talk this up all he wants and in his defense I'm sure the law did help in the capture of various criminal elements, but this open door for abuse needs revised.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by FreeThinking1
In a related article it states "the Justice Department’s inspector general reported that 7,000 people have complained of abuse and countless others don’t even know they’ve been subjected to a search because the law requires that the searches be kept secret." The thought of being searched and not even being told about it bothers me. Bush can talk this up all he wants and in his defense I'm sure the law did help in the capture of various criminal elements, but this open door for abuse needs revised.


You are absolutely right. It goes against the 4th amendment and is quite spooky.

Down with the Act!



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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The USA Patriot Act which was quickly passed in September of 2001 in the aftermath of 9/11 has been the subject of criticism by the ACLU and other liberal politicians and organizations due to their feeling that the Act interferes and intrudes on American civil liberties.


Presidential push fails to quell GOP fear of Patriot Act

Not everyone who opposes this act are liberals. In fact, I daresay that Libertarians and Libertarian-Republicans are far more apt to spite the this act than Liberals.

Or maybe it's just because we Liberal hippies are too high on Mary Jane to speak loudly enough. J/K!



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by lightseeker
Sixteen sections of the Patriot Act are scheduled to expire at the end of the year, and the Bush administration fears their expiration will weaken law-enforcement tools needed to search for potential terrorists on American soil.

"My message to Congress is clear: The terrorist threats against us will not expire at the end of the year, and neither should the protections of the Patriot Act," Bush said during a visit to the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy.


HAH. When have we ever heard a truely "clear" message from this guy? Every other thing out of his mouth is a lie, or some kind of propaganda. Why would congress even give merit to anything that Bush says anymore, after all that's happened. This guy shouldn't even be in office. Oh yea, and the patriot act has really helped us catch all those "potential terrorists". Meaning, normal people living normal lives being harassed, searched, etc. under suspicion of "terrorism". Let's throw this bum out of office already, and he can take his patriot act, his war, and everything else with him.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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What it really comes down to is this: Quite Simply, the "Patriot Act" is *UNCONSTITUTIONAL*! Why do we need to have a LAW because the FBI & CIA act like BIG BABIES & don't want to talk to each other & don't want to do their job's Properly? That is a matter of FIRING people - NOT Invalidating the U.S. Constitution! It passed the first time around because EVERYONE even our Elected Reps. were Horrified over 9/11! They didn't even read it the first time around! Now that things have settled down slightly & they have read it Carefully & Reason has set in - they realize that it is an Unconstitutional Law that they have passed! It gives the President & the Intelligence Agencies Unlimited Gestapo like Powers! I am all for going after the Terrorists - but as an American Citizen I would like to Retain my Freedoms & Liberties as well! I will not "Compromise" on this matter! They now want to not only Extend but EXPAND on these new Powers!

Now I know what some of you are thinking - heck President Bush said it himself, "We will not Abuse these Powers". Oh Really? With all of the Politics flying around these days do you actually believe this? You must be Naive & Gullible in that case!

Case in point -> Just look at what is going on in the "Bolton" nomination for U.N. Ambassador. Bolton asked for - and got - N.S.A. Intelligence on his Fellow Americans! The Suspicion is that he also tampered with Intelligence on Iraq before the War to help the Administration make the case for War. When the Democratic Members of the SENATE asked for these Documents/Names (which they are Certainly Entitled to) in order to help them make a Decision on the Bolton Nomination the Republicans said "NO - you are just Stalling". Do you realize what ONE PARTIES TOTAL DOMINATION of Countries Government comes down to in the end -> TYRANNY! No matter how many times the President spouts his Rhetoric of "Freedom" in Speeches! The Patriot Act just gives them the tools to Hold onto & Expand their Powers! If the FBI & CIA are not doing their jobs it is up to the President to FIRE them - not recommend the Passage of Laws that invalidate our Constitution & Bill of Rights!


CTO

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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I certainly understand everyone's concerns on this matter but let me ask a question... who here has had their Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated by the Patriot Act?

I haven't...

The idea of abuse of power is not a new one, has occurred in the past and will without doubt occur again but are we not at war??? Every time this country had been engaged in war there have been certain restrictions placed on the people that temporarily throttle freedoms...

In this case, the enemy is dead set on bringing the war back to our shores... Are we willing to loose another three or four thousand (or more) people to prevent a perceived abridgment of our rights???

I don't ask this to draw fire or raise anyone's ire but merely as a real world question in light of the new reality that we face in the United States...

Thoughts???



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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.
Some facts:

1. The southern border is not secured from illegal immigration.

2. The patriot act makes this country much closer to all of the authoritarian/police states of the Middle East, and not like the beacon of democracy.

3. Washington has no allegiance to God or morality, only to corporate multinationals. As a note the recent folding to Tobbacco interests in the Justice department lawsuit.
www.watchingjustice.org...

4. The FBI is still more interested in turf battles then in defending the American people from terrorism.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

This government has no business even suggesting these kind of infringements of American freedoms.

At this point the US government is a joke, it doesn't even guard its southern border. That has to be one of the most fundamental jobs of ANY nation. It is so busy pandering to corporations who pay no taxes, but buy and pay for virtually all congressional seats and the Whitehouse, that the taxpayers are paying for someone elses benefits and getting nothing but an occassional bone.
.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by CTO
I certainly understand everyone's concerns on this matter but let me ask a question... who here has had their Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated by the Patriot Act?

I haven't...


I haven't been a victim of a drive by shooting, but I know that street gangs are a problem...there's no logic in the argument of "well it hasn't happened to me, so it won't happen..." It doesn't even matter if they've used the power for bad yet (although there have been instances in the news showing they have), all that matters is that they have these powers...the government SHOULD NOT have the powers given to them in the patriot act. If they have them, they will use them, and it will infringe on our rights. The very nature of the patriot act is completely against the constitution in every way.

The "war" in Iraq is simply a police occupation that is futile...we cannot control things over there with troops in Iraq, and once we leave, all hell will break loose anyway. The only difference is if its worth american lives to "stick it out" and stay in Iraq. It's not, we have no reason to be over there, the war is illegal, and we should withdraw troops immediately.

With most wars, you do tend to lose some rights, but the patriot act is much more than that. For one, we don't have a clear enemy when it comes to terrorism. I'm still not even convinced that Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks, as they showed us almost no real proof of anything that happened. Why should we give up our rights for the terrorists, and for an enemy whose name we don't even know? Terrorists could strike at any time. There's not much we can do about it...tightening control over who enters the country would be a good idea, as the government fails even at that. But yet, they want to essentially put every american citizen under suspicion of terrorism. Why should we turn our country into a police state, due to propaganda of impending dangers and attacks? The very reason a "terrorist" exists is to terrorize. Their whole plan is to invoke fear, and if you look at the present state of our country, you could say they have won. Why let them win and live in fear? I would rather just live my life, and not risk having my liberties taken away.

You were asking how many of us have been victimized by the patriot act....but ask how many terrorists were caught with the patriot act? When was the last time you saw any kind of news regarding the capture of terrorists in the US. Occasionally they announce they have suspected terrorists, but nothing ever comes of it. The patriot act has been around for almost four years now, and there hasn't been any master plan thwarted because of its great protection. If terrorists really want to get to us, they will do it. There is no sense giving our government more power to come into our lives so we can live in terror. This whole scheme works great for the government and terrorists, but the everyday citizen is left with a bittersweet feeling of an impending terrorist attack, as well as the great "protection" provided by the government. It sure is a great way to live...

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Shoktek]



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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Quote: "Every time this country had been engaged in war there have been certain restrictions placed on the people that temporarily throttle Freedoms..."

Right! But here is the thing - What is the Governmental Administrations Solution to the Problem of "Terrorism" -> "WAR"! We will just Kill the Terrorists. Problem - you are using Violence to try to defeat Violence - You may Kill plenty of Terrorists but this is not really a "Solution" because you will really just end up Generating more "Terrorists" through your actions! Even Secretary Rumsfeld Realizes this Paradox! So in that case we are trapped in a "Perpetual War" & so it looks as if our Freedoms will be "Perpetually Restricted" or even perhaps Eliminated! Bush said it himself: "It sure would be a lot easier if this Country was a Dictatorship & I was the Dictator"
(He actually said this once - I am not making it up)!


[edit on 10-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 12:55 AM
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The Patriot Act is competely un-American and a blatant violation of the constitution. Passing such legislation is an attack on the constitution, an attack on freedom and an attack on Americans. War can be waged with machines or with ink. This war against Americans by our government is being waged with ink.


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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How would you defeat terrorism if not by killing the terrorists? Do you believe that you can negotiate with terrorists??? Do you believe that capitulation is the correct avenue??? Or should we just drop to our knees and beg to become the United States of Islam???

Sorry... the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist... end of story.

Restrictions to rights occur during war time... consider WWII... rents were controlled; the press was tightly restricted; fuel and metals were rationed... Yes, there were abuses, most notably the incarceration of Japanese in America, nearly 120000 of them but tell me... have we seen this occur today? No...

We either accept minor inconveniences now and defeat the Islamic militants or we can turn the world over to them (their stated goal...) and accept living under the conditions that are prevalent in the Middle East. I, for one, find the Patriot Act far preferable to a theocracy, any time...

Regarding the comment ascribed to the President concerning things being easier if he were a dictator, I've only seen that once and there was no sourcing of it... Could you provide a source?? Even if the President did say that it was surly in jest... he is entitled to a sense of humor, isn't he?

This is obviously an emotionally charged issue for some but if the Patriot Act was, indeed, unconstitutional I'm sure that our court system would have jumped on the chance to rule it so... With judges legislating from the bench, as they are wont to do, the Patriot Act would have been struck down in short order had it breached the law...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Here's a related story.......

GOP Chairman Walks Out of Meeting

By JIM ABRAMS
The Associated Press
Friday, June 10, 2005; 11:03 PM



WASHINGTON -- The Republican chairman walked off with the gavel, leaving Democrats shouting into turned-off microphones at a raucous hearing Friday on the Patriot Act.

The House Judiciary Committee hearing, with the two sides accusing each other of being irresponsible and undemocratic, came as President Bush was urging Congress to renew those sections of the post-Sept. 11 counterterrorism law set to expire in September.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the panel, abruptly gaveled the meeting to an end and walked out, followed by other Republicans. Sensenbrenner declared that much of the testimony, which veered into debate over the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, was irrelevant.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., protested, raising his voice as his microphone went off, came back on, and went off again.

"We are not besmirching the honor of the United States, we are trying to uphold it," he said.

Democrats asked for the hearing, the 11th the committee has held on the act since April, saying past hearings had been too slanted toward witnesses who supported the law. The four witnesses were from groups, including Amnesty International USA and the American Immigration Lawyers Association, that have questioned the constitutionality of some aspects of the act, which allows law enforcement greater authority to investigate suspected terrorists.

Nadler said Sensenbrenner, one of the authors of the Patriot Act, was "rather rude, cutting everybody off in mid-sentence with an attitude of total hostility."


www.washingtonpost.com...

I feel like I live in a coutry that is about to split at the seams....


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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The only thing that will bring this country down is a lack of the will to stand up to the terrorist thugs and defeat them...

Defeat of the United States and what we stand for is their stated goal...

I'm sorry if some enemy combatants are inconvenienced during their detention... tough... Many of the Gitmo detainees that have been released have been captured again in combat...

We either stand firm and defeat terrorism where we find it around the world or we fight it on our shores... in the streets of our cities and in our neighborhoods...

I will accept what few restrictions on freedoms we need to endure, although I've not experienced any at all, to defeat the Islamic radicals that would destroy us...

Throughout history freedom has been paid for with the blood of patriots... today is no different...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by CTO
This is obviously an emotionally charged issue for some but if the Patriot Act was, indeed, unconstitutional I'm sure that our court system would have jumped on the chance to rule it so... With judges legislating from the bench, as they are wont to do, the Patriot Act would have been struck down in short order had it breached the law...


Two federal judges that I know of have already ruled portions of the patriot act unconstitutional, citing statements that clearly violated the first and fifth ammendments.

How do you defeat terrorism? You can't. You can have extra safeguards controlling who gets in the country (WITHOUT taking away our liberties), but "terrorists" are not a tangible enemy, and we won't be able to stop them if they are determined. And all our war is doing is bringing more and more to the sides of those against us. How are we going to win the war in Iraq? Probably the same way that we "won" over in vietnam.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by Shoktek]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by CTO
We either stand firm and defeat terrorism where we find it around the world or we fight it on our shores... in the streets of our cities and in our neighborhoods...

I will accept what few restrictions on freedoms we need to endure, although I've not experienced any at all, to defeat the Islamic radicals that would destroy us...

Throughout history freedom has been paid for with the blood of patriots... today is no different...


Defeat terrorism around the world? We don't have the time/money/authority to be running around the world policing anyone we so choose. And "terrorism" is such a great pretext for sending troops wherever we please.

Why risk enduring any loss of freedoms just because of some perceived threat? This government is guilty of terrorism by the way they are placing everyone in constant fear of an attack, the way they lied to the american public about a war, the way americans lives have been lost because of this illegal war, and the way they have been killing the Iraqi people for no reason.

The blood of the patriots going off to war right now isn't paying for anyone's freedom. Our government is taking away our freedoms, and our soldiers are dying for an illegal war with no cause. The "terrorists" aren't taking away our freedoms, it is the government. It's just a great way for them to push through legislation during this time that they've been waiting to use for so long. Taking the power back from the people.


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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>>Why risk enduring any loss of freedoms just because of some perceived threat? This government is guilty of terrorism by the way they are placing everyone in constant fear of an attack, the way they lied to the american public about a war, the way americans lives have been lost because of this illegal war, and the way they have been killing the Iraqi people for no reason.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by CTO
There have already been hundreds of terrorists plots foiled here and abroad by the United States and our allies...


HUNDREDS of terrorist plots have been foiled here and abroad? This is news to me...I'd like sources to these HUNDREDS of foiled plots.



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