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SCI/TECH: Cryogenically Treated Car Engine Gets 120 Miles to the Gallon

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posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:42 PM
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David Hutchinson, an expert in cryogenics has found a way to improve the fuel economy of his vehicle. By using cryogenic techniques to freeze engine parts, he claims to have increased the mileage of his hybrid Honda from 50 to 120 miles per gallon, as well as increase the expected lifetime of the vehicle's engine.
 



www.kfor.com
There is a man who fills up his tank once every two months. One tank of gas, literally, lasts him two months. He is freezing the price of gas by freezing something else.

David Hutchison is a Cryogenics expert. He built this Cryo-Process himself. He runs a business out of his garage where he cryogenically tempers all kinds of metals. He submerges them in a frozen tank of nitrogen vapor that is 300 degrees below zero.

A hybrid Honda typically gets really great gas mileage anyway, around 50 miles to the gallon, but David Hutchison's cryogenically tempered engine has been known to get close to 120 miles a gallon.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Hutchinson's cryogenic technique seems like a wonderful way to decrease fuel consumption in automobiles. Car manufacturers should be seriously considering this as a standard feature on their vehicles. The vastly increased fuel economy contributes to reduced pollution, cheaper maintenance, and decreases the strain on non-renewable sources of energy.

The process is not brand new, however. It has been around long enough for race car drivers to see and use in their competitive engines. If the process works as well as Hutchinson claims, why haven't automotive manufacturers incorporated this technique into their manufacturing processes?

With my scientific background, I can't think of a reason why the cryogenic process would help fuel economy, especially to this degree, but it should be relatively easy for car companies to verify Hutchinson's claims with a few simple experiments.

(edit to remove all caps from title by DD)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Cryogenics for future cars...

[edit on 4-6-2005 by DragonsDemesne]

[edit on 4-6-2005 by DragonsDemesne]




posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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NOS works by cooling the fuel to get a hotter blast per cyilnder. I wonder what part he is freezing to get this effect.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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I wouldnt be surprised if this is never heard of again, the oil cartels will pay him millions for the patent and it will never see the light of day.

What business would like seeing its consumers buy half the amount of their product?



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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If true, I hope that he has already submitted his patents for the process.
I also have to winder about just what he is freezing, as most objects at -300 are too brittle to be of any use other than conducting electricity.
One unfortunate thing that the article also leaves out, has this process been reproduced by anyone else?



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra
NOS works by cooling the fuel to get a hotter blast per cyilnder. I wonder what part he is freezing to get this effect.


That is completely incorrect. NOS (nitrous oxide) mixes with the air entering the engine, raising the level of oxygen. Sensors detect the increase in oxygen and thus supply more fuel to each cylinder via the fuel injectors. More oxygen and more fuel equates to a bigger explosion in the cylinder, which in turn provides more horsepower.

There is zero cooling of the fuel taking place.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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From what I remember for chemistry is exothermic reactions(release heat) like combustion are more efficient at lower temperatures, so cooling the engine should make the combustion process more efficient and better millage the result. Its been years since Ive done problems with endo/exothermic reactions so Im not sure if that logic is correct.

If this is true my guess is the oil companies will pay this guy a lot of $$$ to keep this off the market.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by backtoreality

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
NOS works by cooling the fuel to get a hotter blast per cyilnder. I wonder what part he is freezing to get this effect.


That is completely incorrect. NOS (nitrous oxide) mixes with the air entering the engine, raising the level of oxygen. Sensors detect the increase in oxygen and thus supply more fuel to each cylinder via the fuel injectors. More oxygen and more fuel equates to a bigger explosion in the cylinder, which in turn provides more horsepower.

There is zero cooling of the fuel taking place.


Also NOS is a brand name. Nitrous Oxide Systems != N2O



[edit on 6-6-2005 by AZLS1]



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Heh I posted about this last month and got one post... go figure.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by AZLS1
Also NOS is a brand name. Nitrous Oxide Systems != N2O


Thanks; very insightful.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
If true, I hope that he has already submitted his patents for the process.
I also have to winder about just what he is freezing, as most objects at -300 are too brittle to be of any use other than conducting electricity.
One unfortunate thing that the article also leaves out, has this process been reproduced by anyone else?


Like the article said, race car drivers have been doing this for a while now. The only thing that he could patent would be a chryogenically treated product - I don't think that you could patent chryogenics - that would be like patent-ing taking a shower. The tools used in the chryogenic process - those can be patented.

And I'm tired of hearing about nitrous oxide being used in vehicles; that's like soo five minutes ago.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
David Hutchinson, an expert in cryogenics has found a way to improve the fuel economy of his vehicle. By using cryogenic techniques to freeze engine parts, he claims to have increased the mileage of his hybrid Honda from 50 to 120 miles per gallon, as well as increase the expected lifetime of the vehicle's engine.


I'm wondering how this is happening as well. I'm wondering if a regular vehicle could have parts frozen and get a huge kick in gas mileage. I also wonder how it affects horsepower. If this guy could do this with any car, he could start a large national business and then I would be asking how much would it cost to freeze my car parts and what kind of boost I could get. This sort of thing should be important to national security if it works on all cars. This process could reduce our need for foreign oil. Military vehicles might run longer and need less fuel as well. Whoever was president might get a big popularity boost as well if the price of gas dropped significantly and our economy got a big boost.
Just doing my part to try to get this fuel saver.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
Whoever was president might get a big popularity boost as well if the price of gas dropped significantly and our economy got a big boost.


Um; where do I begin?

Just trust me on this one - If a presidential candidate endorsed this, he wouldn't make it to the White House. Also, when people use less gass, the price of gas will rise because the oil companies are SOB's. The economy would continue to benefit the ultra wealthy while the normal would suffer from high interest rates.

Also - this "technology" has been around for a while. Not to mention that the article misprints the Honda Insight's MPG. It's not 50, but more like 60-70; some people have averaged 80-90mpg without chryogenically freezing their motor. It all depends on where you live and what time of the year it is.

If you live in a high altitude area like Denver, Colorado, your car will probably produce around 80% of the advertized horsepower specs. Because of the thinner air, the engine works harder to produce the power you need to get going than it would in say, Houston.

On the other hand, colder weather will improve engine performance as well as fuel economy. Colder air is more dense, so there is more air available for combustion inside the chamber. Heat, on the other hand, will cause the parts of a motor to expand, and thus be less viscous, yielding more friction and more wear, including decreased power and gas mileage.

Chryogenically freezing the components of a motor is majorly a guard against the above variables. Cold weather - warm weather, the engine will always perform the same.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:14 AM
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slow news man, read this on www.rense.com about ohhh 2 weeks + ago!


good story though



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 06:24 AM
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cyrogenic processing of metals has been going on in the firearms industry for quite some time. The parts are cooled to extremely low temperatures and then raised back to room temperature. Sometimes the parts are heated first. The theory is that the grains of the metal realign themselves during the process and the metal thus becomes more durable, stronger, and has less friction. The process is also used by some on razor blades and other common things. Proponets of the process claim increased velocity of projectiles fired from treated weapons along with greater strength and durability. Actual lab tests do show improvements, but not anything near the level claimed.
Personally, I seriously doubt the claimed 140% improvement in fuel economy the article cites. I don't doubt there was some improvement, but that claim is outlandish. Besides, the process generally takes several days to complete and it is not exactly cheap either.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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This process has been around for some time; from musical instruments (brass) to engines. Normally, an engine is comprised of several different parts molded from from several diferent processes. By freezing these parts the atomic structure of the metal changes by making its atoms more evenly spaced. As stated in a previous post this improves the overall structural integrity of the parts. Supposedly, the machined parts achieve a better "fit" and form tighter tolerances (such as around the pistons) which improves performance. The claim of 120 MPG does seem extreme though.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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the last poster is correct...
this is most likely due to the tighter fit of all componants..

there is no actually "cooling" after the initial freeze.... and the parts are not "cold" when being used...
if they were, they would shatter...

it is a "metal treatment" not a process to control fuel burning temperature



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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This story sounds more believable if under optimal conditions the vehicle got 90 mpg before freezing the metal parts responsible for the increased mileage and then the mileage improved to 120 mpg under optimal conditions. (a 33% improvement) I do wonder how expensive this process is and if the guy who did it has any plans to go national or if it's not even cost justifiable to do it. I heard the hybrid cars don't even justify themselves unless gasoline costs anywhere from around $4 to $9 a gallon or you drive over 40,000 miles per year. I heard this on the news (hybrid justification) the other day.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 12:00 AM
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The process has been around for some time, particulary in the treatment of high speed steel tool bits and dies.

The basics would be this. When steel is heated to a hardening temperature there is a solid mixture of carbon and iron. This is called Austenite. If you were to quench the steel to room temperature at this point, a tougher substance known as Martensite is formed.

The amount of Martensite formed is related to the temperature to which the steel is quenched to. The remainder of material is untransformed Austenite which is brittle and thus effects the strength and durability of the steel.

The key is to convert as much of the Austenite to Martensite as you can. With most Alloy and low carbon Steels, quenching to room temperature is sufficient to produce 100% Martensite. However, for high carbon steels Austenite remains. Using Cryogenic treatment all the Austenite is disolved when the steel is subject to deep freeze temperatures as low as -185°C, but usually around -75°C .

The reason it improves engine performance is because it reduces what is known as dimensional instability. In other words, even when the engine gets hot it's pistons and cylinders keep their dimensions within finer tolerances, thus increasing efficency.

The increased durability given to the engine and brakes can be backed up by the history of the same treatment used to strengthen tool bits since the 40's and 50's.

Whether we should all start using this treatment on our engines is an interesting idea.

Someone commented on the time taken for this treatment. The Soviets used a method of "shock" cooling which involved just holding the steel in the liquid nitrogen until it reached room temperature. The usual method is to hold the parts in a basket above the liquid nitrogen for about 1 to 2 hours and then dunking them for a day or two. Longer immersion times do lead to better results, but the cost/benefit for producing parts would probably swing towards using the usual 1 day or so method.

I could see a market for speciality treatments opening up. I for one wouldn't mind paying a reasonable amount for increased fuel efficiency and engine life. With the advent of computerised controlled and timed treatment baths, it may become a part of any normal garage in your home town, given time.


OYG

posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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Wow frozen car parts... it really does make sense though if you think about it... but incorporating it as part of an assembly line would be hard... I mean if you were to immerse the parts for a day and this probably includes I'm guessing the pistons, crank, cams, and blocks.... that's a big pool of frozen engineparts!!! Hey I don't know about GM... but I do believe foreign car manufacturers especially the Japanese or Germans will be interseted if these claims are really true...

as for the N2O... It does cool your airfuel mixture... if it didn't you wouldn't find D1 drivers that have 500hp single Turbo 2~2.5 liter engines fitting them onto their vehicles I guess making air dense cools it? I really don't know the science but I know some car freaks that know their science that swear by N2O in small doses... especially in the lower rev range to help reduce turbo lag...






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