Bohemian Grove, The Owl: Not Satanic!

Originally posted by yanchek
IMO lighter versions of this kind rituals are practiced in colleges a lot. When you want to be accepted in fraternity you have to go trough couplle of degrees of humilliations. And when you're accepted It's your obligation to humilliate others. This type of persons are emontionaly handicaped human beings and they truely newer grew up. I don't want this kind of people makind a large portions of decision that directly or indirectly effect my life.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by yanchek]

I agree that frats are a "grownup little boys club" but they do serve some purposes... usually involving networking... it pays to know people...
I for one, was a GDI, but I do see how friends that were fraternized, became more successful due to connections they developed.

It works the same way here, I am sure...
if you want to gain industry support, why not go hang out with all the politicians at "the grove" and lobby them over the bonfire...

I once heard a great quote... can't remember who said it, but the gist was
Don't ever trust any closed conventions or meetings where everyone has the same focus... it is too easy to conspire against the population during these.

it was actually refering to plumber and dentist conventions, and how they decide to universally raise prices... but it applies here as well...

I have always felt like the weak point in true democracy is where power players have undue influence over the people the are supposed to represent US not THEM...

so that is the minimum of what I hold against these cheaters of democracy...
I really hope that is all i should hold against them...

Deny all knowledge-

The reason I linked the worship of wisdom to the knights templar is a little complex, and it depends on your take of what the templars were about. Here's a link that explains the different angles a little, though I am not a fan of the source, it seems mostly valid material:

www.crystalinks.com...

The angle I take is the Baphomet/sophia angle, which, unsurprisingly, comes back to Isis, as well, and ties the templars in to this as worshippers of wisdom.

captainhemmingway-
I see the point you are making, and that is why I broke this down, to show that there truly isn't anything sinister in this. Even if you don't think it is some old boys club ritual, but rather an initiation into power, there is STILL nothing sinister involved. After all, they invoke the power of brotherhood and fellowship. Hardly evil. You have to remember, power is like a gun; it is not evil, it is only a tool. Good or evil lies in the user. Could there be other rituals we don't know about that are evil? sure. But I was trying to stick to facts and analyze just what is know, without adding in the rumors.
Also, as a note, 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' is not evil, either. Rather it places the power and the exercising of that power in the hands of the initiate. I could take that and run wild, murdering, raping, etc. Or, I could take that, and go out and eliminate all the murderers and rapists. One good, one evil, all the whole of the law.
As for Steiner, what evil is there is complete objectivity? There is a clarity of thought and action that can lead to great good in the act of distancing oneself from knee-jerk physical and emotional reactions and rationally examining the world. It's not that one becomes incapable of these thoughts and emotions; rather, it is that ones comes to posses the ability to step outside the ego in any given situation.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by saturnine_sweet]

The problem with everything you have said regarding ‘Do what thou wilt’ and Steiners OCCULT perspective on ‘objectivity’ is that in principle no such objectivity actually truly exists.

How so?

Without a moral framework to begin with there can be no ‘so called objectivity’ since all actions, influences and consequences must be measured against pre-defined absolutes. For example, in the context of the kind of objectivity a judge requires when sentencing a murderer it is only that he has distinguished the actions of the murderer to be morally indefensible when set against the framework of the law which has been decided by democratic consensus opinion. To push that to an extreme; a soldiers ‘objectivity’ in shooting an enemy is only that which is given to him by his immediate superior who orders the kill. In turn his objectivity stems from the political leaders ruling that first suggested ‘people in that country be killed’ and once again that leader took his objectivity from the laws of that country. In the end the ‘objectivity’ is merely who has the strength to enforce their laws with the most guns and the biggest weapons!

Once you remove the definitions of good and evil then nothing can be considered in terms of emotions, empathy, ethics or morality – explains the actions of our leaders, and the leaders of most mega corps don’t you think!. ‘Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law’ IS indeed EVIL since as a philosophy it makes no allowances for suffering.

Originally posted by JonestownRed
I've seen Spin several times, i don't recall anything about people being messed up on drugs. All it referred to is Bush discussing a non-narcotic prescription drug with Larry King, and later Bush throwing up and passing out at a dinner, which may or may not be a side effect of a drug... but honestly if hes that messed up on drugs where he is throwing up and passing out, do you think he would be able to act normal at a public event? Do you actually think he would go out in public like that? Give me a break.

How about the part where Larry King offers Clinton (i think) to get him some pills to help him sleep. And theyre not talking one pill in particular, its more like 2 of those and one of these and youll sleep like a baby, and then he goes on to say its no problem getting it becouse Larrys brother can get them? Prescription drugs are still DRUGS, you know.

But please, either way, those that havent seen it, check it out !

SPIN

SORRY FOR THIS OFF TOPIC....


Lazarus i completely agree. This is a key ingridient and its where the real power lies. If these politicians were representing people, they would not meet in secret and "bond". And the fact that it does not involve any women makes it even more suspicious to me. If their wives were there that would make it much more "normal".
I guess its ga...ups, mens only

[edit on 20-5-2005 by nukunuku]

captainhemmingway-

I don't mean to be offensive with this, but your logic on objectivity hardly makes sense to me. Laws, morals, etc, influence a decision, but not the objective examination of any given situation. Say there is a person sitting next to me. They are an equal to myself, objectively. Say that, for instance, I know they will die in 1 minute. Do I have any reason to save them? No, not unless I "will it." How to decide if I will it? By objectively examining the pros and cons. Were I to look at it subjectively, I would immediately try to save them, as this is the normal human reaction in the given situation. Objectively, though, if I see no reason to do so, I won't. Now, that's not saying I am some unemotional monster. I would save the person, because I know that it would please me and the person if I did so. Conversely, though, I would not be overwhelmed by guilt if I didn't, and I would be able to make the decision not to without any difficulty. It is just that it pleases me to do so, I "will" to do so, and thus I do so.
Objectivity does not equal a lack of empathy, either; it is just the ability to look at it from outside of empathy. I can make my decision because of empathy, but only after examining the situation outside of empathy. Does that make any sense? It's a matter of choice. I am only constrained by the ego in ways I choose to be, and am able to rise above those constraints if necessary. If I needed to accomplish an objective, and doing so would result in the death of another, I would have no problem doing so if the end result was worth the loss of life. Objectively balancing the pros and cons, I would make my decision. Why is that a difficult concept? It's life.

Maybe I am missing your point?

you certainly aren't being offensive - we have a fundamental difference in our 'life perspectives' that's all - it's part of life. And please don't take my response to be offensive either...

I understand the philosophical framework you are trying to construct and it's essentially the same one offered by Alesiter Crowley, Anton Le Vey, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Albert Pike, Adam Weishaupt and many many others in their writings.

However, we are human beings - intelligent and capable of love and hate - intrinsically we are duality - why should we strive to become above it?. Thus, whenever a decision which significantly impacts the quality of life of ANY LIVING SENTIENT CREATURE is concerned then objectivity IS the means to emotionally detatched thinking and as far as I'm concerned in no way to 'be'. any decision made regarding sentient living creatures SHOULD be subjective because it's the ONLY way you can be sure of even coming close to doing the morally correct thing.

When one is discussing the rake of a new roof or the colour of a carpet for a theartre one can be objective becuase there are a NO MORAL consequences.

This I'm afraid is the bear trap. Learning to detach yourself from decisions which inflict or have the potential to inflict suffering is EVIL. You are also then a very small step from 'the end justifies the means'.

Originally posted by billybob
yes. i am honoured you spent the time to read all two thousand of my posts here at ATS. (takes a bow)

Whatever, man... your sarcasm denotes your inability to make a valid point.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by billybob
yes. i am honoured you spent the time to read all two thousand of my posts here at ATS. (takes a bow)

Whatever, man... your sarcasm denotes your inability to make a valid point.

americanholocaust.homestead.com...

cathy o'brian
pam schuffert
sherman skolnick
executive intelligence review
alex jones
lyndon larouche
mae brussels
hunter s. thompson
arthur kroker
marshall mcluhan


that's enough breadcrumbs.
there are TERABYTES of information to wade through. don't waste your time arguing with me. i'm not going to make up your mind for you. if you want more evidence in the truth puzzle, learn the philosophies and percepts and documentations of these people(or magazine, in the case of EIR).

then, if you choose, we can discuss the finer elements of reality, like MEMES in the NOOSPHERE, and tetrads.

the power elites' child sex ring allegations.(link)

everybody involved seems to show up dead sooner or later.

"nothing to see. move along. or we'll film ourselves raping you, and THEN blow your head off. all behind the badge of 'authority'. sweet deal for us, yeah?"

[edit on 21-5-2005 by billybob]

Anyone who thinks the whole burning the effigy to the owl is something sinister, you obviously dont understand a thing about nature worship and sympathetic magick and ritual.

Burning a human like effigy is a form of ritual in the same family as the infamous voodoo doll. Creamtion of care, from the sounds of it, is a symbolic burning of stress and mental burdens for a time. Since these people deal with much human care and stress from day to day, their cares, which are human ones, are symbolically represented by the human shaped effigy, which are then burned with fire, a ritual symbol of purification, exorcism, and destruction. Thus, ritually and symbolically, their human mortal cares are purged and destroyed, your soul thus unburdened and lightened, free to pursue greater things or enjoy simple and complex pleasures you may have had difficulty experiencing before. The owl, a traditional pre Christian goddess symbol, is often ossicated with the night, wisdom, sisterly concern, and protection.

Thus, that part of the Bohemian club ritual in my opinion is far from sinister and evil.

I had never even ehard of the club till I came on ATS and all I read were threads ranting about blood drinking, Satan worship, mind control, ect. Learning about the location of this club, for a time, i actually accepted the horror stories, as being a native of that region of California, I know for a fact that there are alot of really twisted cults up there in the woods that often drug victims and murder them in sacrifices. Those people are usually acid burnouts or just your run of the mill sociopath.

But after a while I decided to look into the Bohemian Grove myself to see what I can learn, and it is only when I did my own research and started paying less attention to fanatical religous rants, did I actually see something hardly sinister, but strange to the average person with no background or interest in pagan or classical religons and ceremonies.

And those arent KKK robes. Duh. Those are simple white robes often associated with druidic worship. KKK robes are very dinstinctive.

I dunno what else they do at the grove, but I sure as hell dont find the own ceremony to be nefarious or sinister, but rather curious and fascinating.

you didn't follow the hunter s. thompson/paul bonacci/tom flocco leads if you think nothing sinister is going on.

[edit on 21-5-2005 by billybob]

As a frequent participant of the proceedings at both the Bohemian Grove and the City Club I find it humorous how far from reality some imaginations can spin an issue. I know on the surface it looks bad the movers and shakers of the free world hanging out in one place. Hell I have gotten drunk with the who's who of the GOP. The points I wish to make are few and simple and maybe it'll shed some light on those still in the dark.

1) World domination, or schemes or whatever are NOT undertaken during the grove. The rules of the club are explicit and the discussion of outside business is grounds for expulsion. and they enforce it REGARDLESS of who you are on the outside. Now I am not a fool and I know that even if you don't talk business in the club, a week later you can be on the phone with your boho buddy at your office and do a deal there. However whilst under the roof of the city club you can't even have an open briefcase unless its pertaining to Club business.

2) Whos Who? in Bohemia only three things matter, how long have you been a member? are you on the membership committee and what do you contribute. There are a bunch of working stiff artists and musicians who wield far more power at the club than even Henry Kissinger. A lot of the movers and shakers also get to show off their creative talents by playing in one of the many music groups or productions.

3) Why all the secrecy? A man needs to be a man. Farting, pissing in the woods, telling a dirty joke, etc the movers and shakers don't get that simple freedom under the watchful eye of a board of directors, or the press, or whomever. Think of the grove as a college during rush week. Lots and Lots of drinking and Lots and lots of camaraderie. Frankly everybody is too snooked to consipire

4) The whole gay/child molestation thing. Its a bunch of bull. I am certain just like any other group of men there are a representative number of gays. If there are Ive never been hit on by one. and I seriously make the rounds at the grove. I will say a few boys occasionally go "over the fence" to Monterio and hook up with one of the pros that seem to stay at the local motels that time of year But the Cremation of Care is just a symbolic burning of all the crap we have to put up with from day to day.

5) So if the club is sooooo evil why are Steve Miller and Bobby Weir, and Marleys Ghost all members?

[edit on 31-5-2005 by seatownsinger]

[edit on 31-5-2005 by seatownsinger]

Originally posted by seatownsinger
As a frequent participant of the proceedings at both the Bohemian Grove and the City Club I find it humorous how far from reality some imaginations can spin an issue. I know on the surface it looks bad the movers and shakers of the free world hanging out in one place. Hell I have gotten drunk with the who's who of the GOP. The points I wish to make are few and simple and maybe it'll shed some light on those still in the dark.

So we were right about the Classical themes, no? I think it sounds like a fun place to be at, I know that Monte Rio is beautiful in the fall.

It is the most amazing experience you can have without women Because in Bohemia your position in the outside world doesn't matter, you can hang out and really enjoy the company of some remarkable people that you would NEVER get close to in the outside world. And since you can't talk business while you're there you hear some cool stories about their hopes and dreams as kids or their real personal views on life. Like I said before its like a giant rush week. I have a photo of the recycling truck at the end of the week (Cameras are verboten except in your own private camp) filled to the top, and this is a big BIG ass truck with empty booze bottles. There are three food groups there : Sugar, Butter, and Booze. Everyone is incredibly friendly and genuinely happy to see their fellow man. As a performer there is no more appreciate audience in the world. The club is really geared toward artists, ie Joe C E O can wait 20-30 years before being considered for membership, whereas an artist with skills needed by Bohemia can get in within a year. I can't wait for July to get here! Oh another fun thing the most conspiracy-ish thing. Practacal jokes run rampant and nobody is safe they call it Rat F&@king Or Romeo Foxtrot. It is amazing how far some of these guys will go

Originally posted by sebatwerk
So we were right about the Classical themes, no? I think it sounds like a fun place to be at, I know that Monte Rio is beautiful in the fall.

See how easy that is Sebatwerk, for Masonry to be part of the Conspiracy.

[edit on 31-5-2005 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ThePunisher

Originally posted by sebatwerk
So we were right about the Classical themes, no? I think it sounds like a fun place to be at, I know that Monte Rio is beautiful in the fall.

See how easy that is Sebatwerk, for Masonry to be part of the Conspiracy.

What are you talking about?

Thanks for sharing with us SeatownSinger. I had all but given up hope that any BC members would share their experiences. I'm assuming from your name that you are a musician... What kind of music do they play at the BG? Also... Can you tell me what a "down the escalator drink" is? And have you sampled the Hillbillie's signature drink? I'll understand if you don't want to elaborate, its just something i was curious about from reading "The Camps" booklet.

I'm sure you've gotten a flood of u2u's within moments of stating that you've been to the BC parties. Perhaps you can elaborate a little more? Its not a secret society after all right? I mean,obviously the people there value their privacy, but it'd be interseting if you could enlighten some of us.

In particular, if you have seen this thread (the orignal poster is 'invisible' for breaking some rules and not being willing ot discuss it with us), there is a lot of speculation on the meaning of the owl, which a lot of people refer to as 'moloch', the ammonite-israelite idol to which people were sacrificed; the idea being that the cremation of care ceremony is an actual mock human sacrifice and has the intent of 'dissolving' an evil-doers care for what evil he's done and will do. I, and others on this site, think that perhaps its merely analagous to the Burning Man festival, where a 'man', representing frustrations, is burned, thus releaving one of one's regular, day to day, concerns frustrations and cares. So what is that particular ceremony perceived as amoung people there? You might also like that thread because there are pics from the early days of the group too.
Also, why ceremonies at all anyway? Do the peopel there take them seriously, or is it all fun and hijincks??


Also if you'd like to know, there are many threads on your group here (or did you just visit on occasion? Is 'membership' formal or do people come and go, get invited, etc etc?)
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Nygdan
I'm sure you've gotten a flood of u2u's within moments of stating that you've been to the BC parties.

Hahaha I know what he must be going through. I bet you that half of the emails are people trying to convince him he's in an evil society, and the other half are the same people asking how they can get in.

I am glad we have a member here to enlighten us. Thank you for your input sea singer
I do wonder though...
What you have said about the club being a social campout seems to be a little one sided... I am sure that is what it appears to the majority of partakers (you included)...

My concern is the meetings of big industry and politicians on a social basis...
there are well documented "side activities" from an indepth study of the grove by Peter Weiss, Spy magazine columnist...

he states the same as many do here... that it is a grown up mens only beer fest with lots of men peeing everywhere...
he also states without reservation that on different evenings open forum speeches are held, and the context is anything from "this is why you all should vote for the B-2 bomber to the extollings of a media giant wanting support to release a hostage journalist in a foreign country...
there are also obvious showings of insider trading and behind the scenes business deals...
these could go on anywhere... but don't blow smoke up my A$$ and tell me that they AREN'T going on there...
that would be a lie... according to a reputable reporter...

is it Ok for leaders to get together at a exclusive retreats to discuss political or business matters? not any more so than if it happened in a congressmans office with a lobbiest...
sometimes just unethical and sometimes outright illegal...(insider trading offenses)
If you have time, you might want to read the ENTIRE story of a undercover reporter entering BG...
rife with tales of homosexual leanings and prostitution... but not within the camp confines... that is what the nearby town is for...
bohemian grove exposed...

[edit on 1-6-2005 by LazarusTheLong]