whoa nukanuka...
we appreciate the enkightenment.... and maybe the size of the text is what makes it so noticable...
but there is such a thing as TOOooo much truth...

WAY too much truth...

but the fact is...that is the date as as it is coming out... we have to at least consider it...

the pics really do look like some overgrown kids playing a game of dressup... and it looks like a 1930's stage play... then you consider that each man involved could buy and sell us 10 times over in a day... and it gets scary...

Originally posted by billyboband, it's NOT a rumour

If it cannot be demonstrated, if its just a story that people tell, then its a rumour.

Demonstrate that this happens.

LtL
hunter s thompson connection

Thompson killed himself in his home with his kid in the house. He was researching for a book on 911, not the prostitution ring, and the first source about this 'connection' clearly stated that he was not actually suggesting that thompson was suicided over it. Again, more rumours.
Also, gannon and the WHite house sex ring are a different topic. This topic is

The Owl of the Bohemian Grove is not Satanic: pro and con arguements and supplementary discussion, we should not be debateing the White HOuse sex ring scandal, here. Refer to it a bit, sure enough, but lets all stick to the owl being or not being satanic.

The owl is not a symbol of satan. It is a symbol of athena, a wise goddess of classical civilization. Therefore, its most likely that the Bohemian Club uses the owl as a symbol because of an interest in classical civilization, which was quite the vogue in the days when it got started.

nukunuku
Excellent find. This contradicts the idea that the owl is a temporary structure or a recent structure.


I have to ask, is that rock carved? Or is it naturally like that? It looks like it could be naturally like that. Is it plausible that the club has the owl as symbol because of that rock on their grounds?? Its pretty huge too no?

I don't think anyone can say for sure on what the symbolism of the owl really is - to suggest anything with any degree of absolute certainy could be dangerous - I think we need a scholar in pagan poety or occult ritual - perhaps a Robert Graves devotee or someone versed in that kind of language could perhaps originate a deeper meaning from them - until then we are shooting in the dark -

What is UNDENIABLE by ALL -

Incredibly powerful and rich men perform and celebrate NON-CHRISTIAN RITUALS - IN PRIVATE/SECRET whilst in some cases publically supporting pro-christian beliefs and sentiments.

Great photos nuk -

[edit on 19/5/2005 by captainhemmingway]

Originally posted by Nygdan

If it cannot be demonstrated, if its just a story that people tell, then its a rumour.

Demonstrate that this happens.

i won't be demonstrating anything of the sort. too many compromising positions to take, if you get my drift.

sex toy boy, jeffy, had run of the whitehouse. lots of ins and not enough outs. the same guy who was the plant at press conferences. there's much more. it's all right here at ATS, despite all the loud 'prove a negative' crowd's din. all the names, groups, plans, accomplishments and power plays of the illuminati through history and into the future. i tire of people trying to tell me my discernment meter needs calibration when, ...they aren't me. read every word i have read, have every conversation i've ever had, and THEN we can START to discuss where i may 'need' to provide even MORE evidence, or what the negative nellies REALLY want, an airtight case, that PROVES the power people in the world are a secret society of 'satanists'.

and then what would you do. shoot someone? start a militia?
here's what i do. i post.


once again, "THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ABOUT......{put topic here}". the attempt to cut the spiderweb of patterns into neat little boxes. it's the same people, doing the same things, and WE are getting the ROYAL shaft. i've seen enough evidence and testimony to make watergate look like a garden party. it's written in the history books, financial records, and personal networks, or 'spheres of influence' and all VERY well documented EVERYWHERE.

so, in short, .....whatever, buddy.

Originally posted by Nygdan

hunter s thompson connection
Thompson killed himself in his home with his kid in the house. He was researching for a book on 911, not the prostitution ring, and the first source about this 'connection' clearly stated that he was not actually suggesting that thompson was suicided over it. Again, more rumours.
Also, gannon and the WHite house sex ring are a different topic. This topic is

sorry Nygdan... I guess you missed where sabatwerk had asked for those links...
I was just trying to be helpful, not distractive...

Originally posted by billybob
there are filters that watch the #ing language. my sentence will appear without the 'offensive' word to those who haven't paid to have the filters turned off, which you obviously paid because you want to see 'offensive' language. i only use it when VERY STRONG EMPHASIS is required.

I dont have filters turned off, I saw the word when I replied to your post. Doesn't matter.

and YES, we ARE talking about what i said we are talking about. you're willingness to turn a blind eye sickens me.

It is not a willingness to turn a blind eye, it is unwillingness to jump to conclusions. You need to admit that you do not KNOW anything that is going on there, and you are merely assuming. Nobody is turning a blind eye, but nobody is jumping to conclusions either... except you.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

I dont have filters turned off, I saw the word when I replied to your post. Doesn't matter.

oops. buggy. my deepest apologies to anyone offended by common words.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
It is not a willingness to turn a blind eye, it is unwillingness to jump to conclusions. You need to admit that you do not KNOW anything that is going on there, and you are merely assuming. Nobody is turning a blind eye, but nobody is jumping to conclusions either... except you.

you have no idea what i know and don't know. prove that you do. you can't, on one hand, critisize me for not knowing this or that or not, and on the other hand, assume to know what i do know and don't know. you must apply your own rigorous rules of discretion to yourself, too, if you wish to be a wholistic critical thinker.
maybe i'm paul bonacci. you just don't know. you are the one jumping to conclusions.



[edit on 19-5-2005 by billybob]

After reading some of these links, I have to say that they raise more questions than they answer. The links I am referring to are the child sex allegations. Most of them report high ranking government officials
(and specifically the Bushes) involved in heavy drug use.

Now if they had stuck to the sex, it might be believable. But when they include eye witness reports of Bush and Cheney shooting heroin, they lose their credibility.

My question: How am I supposed to belive that the guys running the country are just a bunch of junkies? I know junkies! There is no such thing as casual heroin or cocain use.

Once I start to question part of an allegation, I tend to be very suspicious of the rest of it. It's starting to look like more of a mud slinging exhibition than a search for truth.

Oh, I understand.

Heroine would be an outright lie.

Some Cocaine use, well, that wouldn't be THAT big of a deal, business men do it all the time.

Its not like they are trafficking the stuff...

Oh wait.

Originally posted by billybob
you can't, on one hand, critisize me for not knowing this or that or not, and on the other hand, assume to know what i do know and don't know. you must apply your own rigorous rules of discretion to yourself, too, if you wish to be a wholistic critical thinker.
maybe i'm paul bonacci. you just don't know. you are the one jumping to conclusions.

Fair enough, I AM assuming that you know no more or less than anyone else on this forum. I concluded this based on your previous posts. Am I wrong? Is there something we should all know that you can tell us?

I'm what you could call a mid-level student of a few different occult practices, as well as being an avid researcher of ancient pratices/religions....there are a few very obvious points embedded here, so here's a breakdown of the "ritual text."

The Owl is in His leafy temple
Let all within the grove be reverent before Him.
Lift up your heads oh ye trees
And be lifted up ye everlasting spires
For behold here is bohemia's shrine
And holy are the pillars of this house.

Weaving spiders come not here!


The owl, whatever manifestation you choose, represents wisdom. Not exactly earth-shattering there. Wisdom is of course a stated "sacred persuit" in several ancient religions and groups...most rooted in the cult of Isis. With the cult of Isis it is with a mystical bent, and the focus of the religion was death and resurrection. The original cult of Isis (as in ancient egyptian, not the roman incarnation) is thought by some scholars to have been an influence on the formation of judaic faith. Later evolutions of the cult are also thought to have been possible influences on christianity and the knights templar, who worshipped sophia, or wisdom.

So from the owl, we have the worship of wisdom, with possible ties to the cult of Isis and the practices of the knights templar.

The reference to nature seems to point to the cult of isis again, as Isis was a nature goddess.

Terming themselves "bohemian" they acknowledge that they are acting in ways that are outside of social accepted behavior.

"And holy are the pillars of this house." This is a very important line. Firstly, it made me think of freemansory, the pillars of jachin and boaz. But where does freemasonry get this practice from? Their story says the pillars originated with the construction of King Solomon's temple, a temple of the jews, who came from where before settling in canaan? That's right, Egypt. So, again, we are back to egypt. Isis is the greek aset, which means "pillar or throne." The sacred egyptian pillar was the djed pillar, often used in later egyptian times as a symbol for Osiris, and as a symbol for strength and stability. Earlier uses for the djed pillar are indeterminable at this time, but if you look, you'll find the speculation runs far and wide.

So, from this, we are again have ties to knights templar, through freemasonry, (if you're not familiar with this connection, it's a great one to research,) and through freemasory, back to egypt, to Isis and osiris. Hmmmm.....

Final line of this snippet is a reference to spiders and webs....most likely just a simple statement that traps and convoluted plans and deceptions have no place in their fellowship.

So snippet one states that they are a united group who worship knowledge, and either are worshippers of Isis, or bored men who threw bits and pieces of mysticism together and just happened (not so surprisingly, as most mysticism has a common root,) to pick points that all tie back into Isis.

Snippet two

Hail, Bohemians!
With the ripple of waters
The song of birds
Such music as inspires the sinking soul
Do we invite you into Midsummer's joy.
The sky above is blue and sown with stars
The forest floor is heaped with fragrant grit
The evening's cool kiss is yours
The campfire's glow
The birth of rosy fingered dawn.
For behold, here is Bohemia's shrine
And holy are the pillars of his house
Shake off your sorrows with the city's dust
And cast to the winds the cares of life.
But memories bring back the well-loved names of gallant friends
Who knew and loved this grove
Dear boom companions of a long ago
Aye, let them join us in this ritual!
And not a piece be empty in our midst.
All of these battles to hold
In this gray autumn of the world
Or in the springtime of your heart.

Lines 1-14 here are just saying, rather long-windedly, "welcome everyone to our nature retreat, all's swell, forget about the cities and their responsibility and enjoy what this place has to offer." Note that again we also have the "holy pillars." Repetition is used in incantation, etc, to place emphasis, so I do honestly believe we are looking at the pillars of jachin and boaz here, or a reference to the pillars that spawned them. Of note, jachin and boaz signify strength, establishment, and stabily. Certainly things those in power would desire.

The remaining lines of this snippet are interesting. They call to "memories" of friends, and ask that they join so that "not a piece be empty." A couple meaning to take from this: one, that everyone there think back on those "gallant friends" who are now just memories, so that all are full with the memories of old friends, or two, that they are actually calling out the bring back the spirits of the dead. Obviously, while option two sounds exciting, most likely option one is the intent. The battles line is unclear at this point, probably referring ahead to the battle against "dull care" and the last two lines extoll the inner self while noting that the world is in it's "grey autumn."

so from snippet two we have a group of men who are getting away from the world, remembering old friends, and are either involved in freemasonry or a related group, or are perhaps isis worshippers. And don't forget, from snippet one, they worship knowledge.

Snippet three

Attend our tale
Gather ye forest folks!
And cast your spells over these mortals
Touch their world-blind eyes with carry-on
Open their eyes to fancy
Follow the memories of yesterday
And seal the gates of sorrow.

This section really leads me to believe that whatever rituals are practiced at Bohemian Grove, they are a mash-up of various mysticisms. Why? Because now we are waxing druidic, calling on the fairy folk of the forest. On the interesting side, it is requested of the forest folk to change the perception of those gathered from the cares of the world to "fancy" and to return them to the memories of yesterday, and "seal the gate of sorrow."

After this section, it is beginning to look as if the BG Owl ritual is a constructed ritual put together to "bring back" or "go back into" how things were in a time now past. The "gate of sorrow" lines leads me to think this ritual came about because of some change in the world of these members at some point in the past that did not go as they wish. The other option is that this is still meant as a genuine religion, and the memories of yesterday refers to forgotten knowledge and the sorrow refers to the straying of mankind from this knowledge, a common concept in mysticism. I think option one more likely, because this ritual seems to draw influences from many areas, but option two is viable as well.

Snippet Four

It is a dream
And yet, not all a dream
Dull Care in all of his works
Harbored it
As vanished Babylon and goodly Tyre
So shall they also vanish
But the wilding rose blows on the broken battlements of Tyre
And moss rends the stones of Babylon
For beauty is eternal
And we bow to beauty everlasting
For lasting happiness we turn our eyes to one alone,
And she surrounds you now.
Great nature, refuge of the weary heart,
And only balm to breasts that have been bruised.
She hath cool hands for every fevered brow
And gentlest silence for the troubled soul.
Her councils are most wise
She healeth well
Having such ministries as calm and sleep
She is ever faithful
Other friends may fail
But seek ye her in any quiet place
Smiling, she will rise and give to you her kiss
So must ye come as children
Little children that believe do not ever doubt her beauty or her faith
Nor deem her tenderness can change or die
Bohemians and priests!
The desperate call of heavy hearts is answered.
By the power of your fellowship, Dull Care is slain
His body has been brought yonder to our funeral pyre
To the joyous singings of a funeral march;
Our funeral pyre awaits the corpse of Care
O thou, thus ferried across the shadowy tide
In all the ancient majesty of death
Dull Care, ardent enemy of beauty
Not for thee the forgiveness or the restful grave
Fire shall have its will of thee
And all the winds make merry with thy dust
Bring fire!

Lines 1-10 state that "Dull Care," which would seem to be a representation of the "real-world" lives of those gathered, has harbored a dream that has some reality. Like vanished babylon and tyre, Dull Care's dreams will vanish. I would say these dreams that are not wholly dreams are the dreams of success these men have had. Thusly, they have had some success, so there is a reality there, but it will fade in time, just like the ancient cities.
Of note, while a reference to Babylon isnt earth-shattering, but rather more of a cliche, Tyre is surprising. Tyre is of course where the architect of Solomon's temple was said to be from. So, again, another freemasonry tie. Wild roses in babylon could also refer to rosicrucians (sp?) who are perhaps an offshoot of freemasonry, and more of the mystical bent. Perhaps these Bohemians are a gathering of the powerful from a collection of secret societies, working together? Or, again, maybe it's just coincidence and they just happened to grab mystical symbols that are so widespread.

The remainder of this snippet just states that nature is the remedy for the mundane world, and that it is the bane of "dull care" and thus they are going to symbolically burn dull care as a sacrifice.

Snippet five


Fools!
Fools!
Fools!
When will ye learn
That me ye cannot slay?
Year after year ye burn me in this grove
Lifting your puny shouts of triumph to the stars.
When again you turn your faces to the marketplace
Do you not find me waiting as of old?
Fools!
Fools!
Fools to dream you conquer care.

just a reply by dull care that he is inescapable and will be waiting for them again when they leave the grove.

Snippet Six

Say Thou mocking spirit!
It is not all a dream
We know thou waiting for us
When this out sylvan holiday has ended
We shall meet thee and fight thee as of old
And some of us prevail against thee
And some thou shall destroy
But this too we know
Year after year within this happy grove
Our fellowship bans thee for a space
Thine malevolence which would pursue us here
Has lost its power under these friendly trees.
So shall we burn thee once again this night
And, with the flames that eat thine effigy
We shall read the sign
Midsummer sets us free!

straightforward for the most part again, replying to dull care that they know he will return, and that some will succumb to him, others won't. Only thing of interest here is that statement that they will "read the sign" as he burns. perhaps poetry, perhaps this ritual is used to try to gain some glimpse of things to come.

Snippet Seven

Ye shall burn me once again!
Not with these flames!
Which hither ye have brought
From regions where I reign
Ye fools and priests
I spit upon your fire!

Dull care replies again. Basically says "can't touch me, I have power over your flames." Interesting that he states that the flames are from "regions where I reign." Referring to fire sparked by modern means, or that he is a representation of the devil?

Snippet eight


O Owl! Prince of all mortal wisdom
Owl of Bohemia, we beseech thee
Grant us thy council

No fire…
No fire…
No fire…
Let it be in the world
Where care is nourished
On the hates of men
And drive Him from this grove.
One flame alone must light this fire
One flame alone must light this fire
A pure eternal flame
At last, within the lamp of Fellowship
Upon the altar of Bohemia.

O Great Owl of Bohemia!
We thank thee for thy adjuration.
Begone detested care!
Begone!
Once more, we banish thee!
Begone Dull Care!
Fire should have its will of thee!
Begone Dull Care!
And all the winds make merry with thy dust
Hail, fellowship's eternal flame!
Once again Midsummer sets us free!

Nothing much here. They ask the owl of wisdom for guidance, he says burn him in a spirit of fellowship, rather than hatred. This pretty much clears up the "region where I reign" from the previous snippet. If you want to look at it with a mystic bent, could be constued to say "start the fire with combined mystical power, not natural flame" but thats none too likely.

Summary

So, after breaking it down, there are two primary possibilities from this ritual.
One, this group is a long running old boys club, which gathers to forget real life for a time and to get out in nature and get recharged, and they just happen to have some hokey rituals that are a mash up of various schools of mysticism, and possibly had a negative occurance in the past, or

Two, it's a gathering of the top powers in a wide range of cults and/or societies of a mystical bent, who are gathering together to share power and freedom in the pursuit of wisdom and enlightenment.

My guess is that it's option one, and the items in the ritual that seem to have some mystic validity are just happenstance, perhaps because some of the founding members were probably masons and/or members of a mystic cult. Does this mean that all the atrocities claimed don't happen? not necessarily. It just means that this ritual is not proof of anything, and seems to be harmless and hokey, with no definate thread of anything tying it together, and nothing ominous at all contained in it.

If you read all of this, thanks! It's a heck of a read, but as the words of this ritual are one of the few concrete pieces of evidence, I felt it deserved an in depth look.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by saturnine_sweet]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Fair enough, I AM assuming that you know no more or less than anyone else on this forum. I concluded this based on your previous posts. Am I wrong?

no. you're right. every human brain is identical.

Is there something we should all know that you can tell us?

yes. i am honoured you spent the time to read all two thousand of my posts here at ATS. (takes a bow)

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet

So from the owl, we have the worship of wisdom, with possible ties to the cult of Isis and the practices of the knights templar.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by saturnine_sweet]

Very interesting post, and some well informed observations! I myself studied classics and have a great interest in Celtic and other "pagan" civilisations.

Just an observation I wanted to make about the possible link to the Knights Templar since I've done a bit of research into it, from what I gather the Owl has associations with the "Cult of the Head" in Celtic culture (which included the actual taking of enemy heads as a part or accompanyment to ritual). One of the accusations levelled against the Templars was that they worshiped a stone head alter/centrepiece. I believe that a mistaken connection has been made between the two simply due to the reason that they both have a "head" involved.

Compelling post though, and a nice return to the actual subject of the thread!

great post saturnine, i for one appreciate the work you put into it

keep it up!


I agree with your conclusions pretty much, I just hope the text i posted isnt true

Great post Saturnine - I had ISIS pegged myself as the goddess myself - glad to see someone else picked that up - takes it back to egypt - the pyramids and the heart of the ENTIRE MYSTERY.

You may find this of interest from Manly P Hall's ' The secret of the Ages'

“Through the mystic passageways and chambers of the Great pyramid passed the illumined of antiquity. They entered its portals as men; they came forth as gods. It was the place of the ‘second birth’, the ‘womb of the mysteries’ and wisdom dwelt in it as God dwells in the hearts of men. Somewhere in the depths of its recesses there resided an unknown being who was called ‘The initiator’, or ‘The illustrious one’, robed in blue and gold and bearing in his hand the sevenfold key of Eternity. This was the lion faced hierophant, the holy one, the master of masters, who never left the house of Wisdom and whom no man ever saw save he who passed through the gates of preparation and purification. It was in these chambers that Plato- he of the broad brow- came face to face with the wisdom of the ages personified in the Master of the hidden house.”

He goes on to reveal precisely what the master of the hidden house was to reveal…

”The power to know his guardian spirit was revealed to the new initiate; the method of disentangling his material body from his divine vehicle was explained; and to consummate the magnum opus there was revealed the divine name- the secret and unutterable designations of the supreme deity, by the very knowledge of which man and his god are made consciously one. With the giving of the name, the new initiate became himself a pyramid, within the chambers of whose soul numberless other human beings might also receive spiritual enlightenment’


Furthermore contrast that kind of ceremony with the actions of men like Hitler...consider what the black magician thulist Dietrich Eckart said on his death bed regarding Hitler :' follow Hitler. He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the 'secret doctrine', openend his centres of vision and given him the means to communicate with the 'powers'". Prior to his run in with Eckart Hitler was just a shmuck - a failed autrian painter.

Now returning to the 'cremataion of Care' as a ritual

All the incredibly powerful and rich men in their BUSINESS/POLITICAL LIFE DISPLAY the attributes that could best be summed up by the crowleian motto 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' - Luciferian/satanism are labels we know little enough about as non-practising satanists, but we can at least agree that in our understanding of them that they can easily be liberally applied to the actions and to the horror of the 20th centuries war torn legacy.

Such changes in moral perspective usually go hand in hand with most fratenity based ritual systems and are usually associated with occult initiation rituals - which could without any great stretch of the imagination be associated with the Bohemian Grove ritual.
If you already find yourself 'making allowances' for what is going on at Bohemian Grove I'd suggest you may well be on the way to becoming an illuminist yourself.

Rudolph Steiner says of occult Rituals that a sort of moral reversal is achieved - a distancing from the norms of good and evil - the old illuminist 'I am above duality' phrase.

I quote Rudolph Steiner "This is the change which the occult student observes coming over himself - that there is no longer a connection between a thought and a feeling or a feeling and a volition, except when he creates the connection himself. No impulse drives him from thought to action if he does not volunatrily harbour it. He can now stand completely without feeling before an object which , before his training, would have filled him with glowing love or violent hatred : he can likewise remain actionless before a thought which hereforeto would have spurred him to action as if by itslelf"

I ask you to consider that statement in the context of the ceremony called ' the cremation of care' perhaps now a little more light can be shone upon the process they undertake. Perhaps one can understand how a former movie actor for example, having undergone the ritual of 'the cremation of care' could now act accordingly in the office of president - could order wars, sanction assassinations all from this 'morally distanced position' - un-emotively - 'without care'!!

Make no mistake about it - these are INITIATION RITES OF PASSAGE.

we are SUPPOSED to think it's just a bunch of greedy businessmen arsing around in the woods - that's the whole point.

yep yep i already wrote this once but ill do it again anywayz

What bothers people on high places is empathy, empathy for their victims.
Like sebatwerk said, we are all born with it and a normal person couldnt just send people to their deaths or make bad decisions in that manner.

If you want to start a war for instance, you cant think about people your decisions will kill, hence the rituals and the drugs. You know you couldnt do it, i couldnt, well if you want power then in this world you HAVE TO do it.

And if you dont belive that a lot of them are druggies, you should check the documentary titled SPIN....these people are so messed up they cant sleep without their "coctails", and understandably so.

IMO lighter versions of this kind rituals are practiced in colleges a lot. When you want to be accepted in fraternity you have to go trough couplle of degrees of humilliations. And when you're accepted It's your obligation to humilliate others. This type of persons are emontionaly handicaped human beings and they truely newer grew up. I don't want this kind of people makind a large portions of decision that directly or indirectly effect my life.

This Bohemian ritual is from my point of view just a continuance of this collegue practices only they are far more serious than student pranks.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by yanchek]

I've seen Spin several times, i don't recall anything about people being messed up on drugs. All it referred to is Bush discussing a non-narcotic prescription drug with Larry King, and later Bush throwing up and passing out at a dinner, which may or may not be a side effect of a drug... but honestly if hes that messed up on drugs where he is throwing up and passing out, do you think he would be able to act normal at a public event? Do you actually think he would go out in public like that? Give me a break.