Something about Mary (ghosts, demons)

Ok, there is a thing you need to know about satan ahead of time.
He doesnt have to make up some giant conspiracy to lead you astray. It can be 99% truth and 1% lie.

Examples would be JW's or Mormons. There is much truth to them.
Judaism. How far wrong are they? They are one simple thing away from salvation. Jesus the Messiah. Thats all. 99% truth.

So whats up with these Mary Ghosts?
Well, the bible tells us that when you die, you goto hell or heaven. You dont travel back and forth as you please. This mary seems to do that.

The bible also tells us that even satan can appear as an angel of light.
I never knew half the things this mary thing said until someone posted a link to one of them.
Ive made some quick notes for you, and you will quickly see that this thing is not from heaven.

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December 9th and 12th 1531
Guadalupe, Mexico
Know for certain that I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God . . . here I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear their weeping and their sorrows . . . their necessities and misfortunes . . . Listen and let it penetrate your heart . . . Do not be troubled or weighed down with grief. Do not fear any illness or vexation, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle? In the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else you need?"
Mary is NOT a prepetual virgin
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Mat 13:56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"
Mary is the mother of Jesus, not God (it matters)
Mary cannot protect you.
Mary is not your mother
Mary is NOT omni-anything. She cannot hear us.
Mary is NOT the fountain of life. Jesus is.
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.




--
Rue du Bac, Paris
"On November 27, 1830, Mary appeared in silence to Saint Catherine Laboure and showed her the image of a medal she wished to have struck. Our Lady appeared on the medal with streams of light pouring from rings on her fingers, signifying her function as 'Mediatrix of All Graces.'
Around the figure of Our Lady, these words were inscribed: 'O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.' This medal came to be called 'the Miraculous Medal,' because of the many miracles associated with its wearing. The back of this medal shows the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Sacred Heart of Jesus together. This was the first occurrence in which the two hearts appeared together. Twenty-four years after the apparition, Pope Saint Pius X, on December 8, 1854, defined the doctrine of 'the Immaculate Conception.' This dogma states, 'the Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the foreseen merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved from all stain of original sin.' "

Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Only Jesus is without sin
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

--
Blangy, France
Mary held in her right hand her heart surrounded by flames, and in her left, a type of scapular. This scapular consisted of a single small piece of green cloth suspended from a cord of the same colour. On one side of the piece of cloth was a picture of the Blessed Virgin as she had shown herself in the apparitions. On the other was a heart all inflamed with rays more brilliant than the sun and clearer than crystal.
Our Lady's heart, pierced with a sword, was surrounded by an oval inscription surmounted by a cross. The inscription read, "Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death." At the same time, an interior voice revealed to Sr. the meaning of the vision.

Again, Mary is not immaculate.
Introduction of graven images. The mary at medjiorge says everyone should have at least one graven image in the house.


---
1858 Lourdes France
another illiterate miracle
Many times Bernadette asked the lady who she was, but she would only smile. Eventually the lady said "Que soy era Immaculada Conceptiou" - I am The Immaculate Conception. When asked by the priest if she knew what that meant, Bernadette did not. The phrase had only been applied to Mary four years before and would only be known amongst the clergy, so it was very improbable that an illiterate poor French girl would have heard it.

This is the same miracle that made the Quran.
How do we know that THIS mary is without sin? SHE tells us. Not the bible. Her. Demon

---
1876 Pellevoisin, France

The first part of the apparitions in Pellevoisin started in the night of February 14, 1876. A demon appeared at the foot of her bed. Just after Estelle spied the demon, she saw the Blessed Mother at her bedside. Our Lady rebuked the demon and he immediately departed. Our Lady then looked at Estelle and said to her: “Fear nothing, you are my daughter.”
She appears with demons, and claims to be mother of all as if she were a god

3rd
During this night, I again saw the Devil, but he was a long way away. The Blessed Virgin said: ”courage my child”. ....
The Blessed Virgin said: ”I am merciful and Mistress of My Son. The few good works and the intense prayers, which you offered me, have touched My Mother-heart, especially that letter which you wrote to me in September.

She appears with demons and says she is the Mistress of Christ.
Astarte, the babylonian sex goddess married her son Tammuz.
This is babylon all over again.

Pellevoisin, 4th Apparition - Night of 17/18 Feb. 1876:

That night, it seemed to me that she did not stay so long. I wanted to ask her for graces but was unable to do so. My thoughts were racing and I could see in my mind the words that the Blessed Virgin had repeated: “Do not be afraid of anything. You are my daughter and my Son has been moved by your resignation”; also the reproaches of my faults and their forgiveness, with her words: “I am all merciful and hold sway with my Son” as well as “ Have courage, patience and resignation; you will suffer and will not be free of troubles; try to be faithful and make known my glory”.

Mary is merciful???? When did she become a god?
Whos glory? Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


5th
She then said to me: “if you want to serve me, be simple and let your deeds prove your words". I asked Her if I was to change in any way or go to another place. She answered: ”wherever you are and whatever you do, you can gain blessings and can proclaim my glory”. Then She said very sadly: “it saddens Me the most to see that people have no respect for My Son in The Holy Eucharist and the way the people pray whilst their minds are on other things. I say this to those who pretend to be pious.” I then asked Her if I should start straight away to proclaim Her glory. “Yes! Yes!, but first ask your Father confessor what he thinks. You will meet obstacles, be badly teased and people will say that you are mad and such like, pay no attention to them, be faithful to me and I shall help you”. Then She gently disappeared.

Serve who? Mary!?
How? Proclaim Her glory!? Jesus made it clear that all glory belongs to the Father. Then she tries to sell the catholic sacrifice of the mass thing. Where they kill Jesus again literally once a day.
"I then asked Her if I should start straight away to proclaim Her glory. “Yes! Yes!, "

I did not point out everything here, nor is this a complete mary ghost diary.
All quotes are from here or linked from this page at the indicated appearance www.apparitions.org...

At ONE point in the bible, someone tries to venerate Mary, the mother of Jesus. Jesus shoots them down.

Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

No. Who is more blessed, Mary for having Jesus..or the person that hears the word of God and keeps it?
Jesus says the later.

The bible keeps the focus on Jesus, and Jesus keeps the focus on God.

It was too late to edit this verse in. I finally found it

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

satan can do miracles too

People really need to understand that Christ alone is the focus of Christianity. This "mary" is not pointing anyone to salvation in Christ. Attention is being drawn away from Christ and onto others things or people, living and dead who cannot save anyone from there sins and give them eternal everlasting life.

You stole that posting, word for word, from the crackpots here -
forums.tribulationforces.com...

tisk tisk tisk Jake. Theft. Remember commandment #7?
Thou shalt not steal? You didn't even give the poor
original author any credit.

Man .. you even stole the stuuuuuuuuuupid title - Mary ghost. DUMB.


[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

You stole that posting, word for word, from the crackpots here -
forums.tribulationforces.com...

tisk tisk tisk Jake. Theft. Remember commandment #7?
Thou shalt not steal? You didn't even give the poor
original author any credit.

Man .. you even stole the stuuuuuuuuuupid title - Mary ghost. DUMB.


[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]

Difficult to say without Jake's input. By the date's "Don Richards" could be lifting from him. Or they're one in the same. Or it's just some e-mail spam everybody on the left behind list got.

Best to 'fess up or rectify though jake as they loooooooooove me over at TribForces. I'll find out.

Eh, seems both are just long copy/pastes from www.apparitions.org... So hard to read this stuff without knowing what's a quote and what's original.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by RANT]

I'll hold off on the theft charge .. but I still
smell something and it STINKS.

By the way. I knew one of the people who
was involved with the start up of that 'apparition' site. He
started up the Apar-L part. (I U2Ud ya' the name Rant).
He was a crackpot. The people on that list of 'apparitions'
aren't 'Catholic' .. but they claim to be. The bishops in most
of the cases have tried to warn people away from those
sites (Conyers, Emmitsburg, etc.).

Well, the bible tells us that when you die, you goto hell or heaven. You dont travel back and forth as you please. This mary seems to do that.

so im interested to know where in the bible it says we go straight to heaven or hell when we die as you claim. Show me the texts...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

You stole that posting, word for word, from the crackpots here -
forums.tribulationforces.com...

tisk tisk tisk Jake. Theft. Remember commandment #7?
Thou shalt not steal? You didn't even give the poor
original author any credit.

Man .. you even stole the stuuuuuuuuuupid title - Mary ghost. DUMB.


[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]

Then 3 posts later he says
"Ill hold off on the theft charge".
Will ya? Oh thanks FF. Thanks so much. Kinda late tho isnt it? Here, let me help you get that foot out of your mouth.


RANT, your right.
They do love ya over there.
Hey, what are the odds that the script they use over there can be put into use here? Its much more user friendly.

Originally posted by shmick25


so im interested to know where in the bible it says we go straight to heaven or hell when we die as you claim. Show me the texts...

Wish I could remenber all the verses for every question.

Look at Luke 16:19-31

You got it brandt

Then Peter tells us

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

That christ went there to that place to preach to those people. No one could go to heaven until Christ paid the price. All the good folks went to hang out with Abraham. BUt during the 3 days Jesus was dead, he fixed that too

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The gifts were the crowns that Paul talks about.

So now, when you die, its either heaven or hell

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Originally posted by jake1997
Mary is merciful????

I am not quite sure exactly why Mary couldn't be merciful.

Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Originally posted by jake1997
You got it brandt

Then Peter tells us

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

That christ went there to that place to preach to those people. No one could go to heaven until Christ paid the price. All the good folks went to hang out with Abraham. BUt during the 3 days Jesus was dead, he fixed that too

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The gifts were the crowns that Paul talks about.

So now, when you die, its either heaven or hell

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I'm sorry,
I can not see any connection with they heaven and hell in these verses. It is a long leap. If this is the only way you can justify your answer then I think you are being more deceived than those regarding Mary!

Originally posted by jake1997
No one could go to heaven until Christ paid the price. All the good folks went to hang out with Abraham.

So, if we take what you have written in context with 2Kings 2:11 we can draw one of three conclusions:

"Went up by a whirlwind into heaven" really means "went to hang out with Abraham".
Elijah was a "no one".
Your statement is not quite correct.




[edit on 30-4-2005 by Raphael_UO]

I would like to go further into the topic about the dead not going straight to heaven or hell - and what the Bible says about it.

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

So Christ said that Lazarus was what? Sleeping? What do sleeping people do? Not much. Certainly they are not in heaven or hell

What about Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


The dead do not know anything? But I thought the dead were in Haven or hell.. mmmm

Job 14:12 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

So what is this saying? Dead people wait until their appointed time. This does not insinuate that they go straight to an after life.

What about 1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

hmm can it be more black and white?

and another one:

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?.

Once again, the bible indicates that we are dead - asleep in the grave until the second coming.

Going to heaven and hell just to be put back in our bodies before the second coming does not make any sense at all.

First
Ralf, that is out of context and you know it. Christ is talking about the living...and the mercy he speaks of is NOT about forgiving sins to goto heaven.

I'm sorry,
I can not see any connection with they heaven and hell in these verses.

Then you dont want to.


R_UO

Did mary go up in a whirlwind. Please show me that.
In fact, Enoch and Elijah are great examples, and proof, that mary is not to be held higher then any other person.
They were taken into heaven in the bible. SHow me where that happens with mary.
It dont. Thats why Jesus has someone to take care of her from the cross.

Thank you


John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Sleep is a perfect term for use from this side of the grave. What did Jesus say about the other side? He showed Lazerus quite alive and speaking to the rich man

What about Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Context people context. Ecclesiastes is all about the vanity of life on earth. You look for glory here but it all ends here. You should instead look toward your eternal soul and what you must do to help yourself in the hereafter

What about 1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you cant see it now, then you dont want to. Most of these verse you might be able to twist if they were by themselves. They are not.
The souls are alive and well in heaven or shoel. The flesh lays in the dust.

1Th 5:6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.

Whats this!!!? Looks like he is saying that everyone but christians are always asleep!!! LOL
Rip Rip Rip it out of context to suit your needs. See how easy it is.

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Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am there you may be also. (John 14:3)

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (Romans 6:8)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8)

For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. (2 Corinthians 13:4)

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:23)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. (1 Thessalonians 5:10)

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (2 Timothy 2:11-12)

---

Ok now...follow closely.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Christ went and preached to who?? We know this place. Christ showed it to us in the parable of Lazerus and the rich man. Abrahams bosom and hell.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The bible is very clear that Christ went into the belly of the earth and led someone out of it. Peter tells us and Eph confirms it.

Now in all the bible, how many people were sent back as a ghost by God to tell us to give them glory and make graven images?

None.
There is the water. Drink if you want, spit in it if you want. Its up to you.

Originally posted by jake1997
First
Ralf, that is out of context and you know it. Christ is talking about the living...and the mercy he speaks of is NOT about forgiving sins to goto heaven.

Mary forgiving sins is one thing. Mary being merciful is another. If all men should strive to be merciful, mercy is not something I would deny as a quality to Mary.

R_UO

Did mary go up in a whirlwind. Please show me that.
In fact, Enoch and Elijah are great examples, and proof, that mary is not to be held higher then any other person.
They were taken into heaven in the bible. SHow me where that happens with mary.
It dont. Thats why Jesus has someone to take care of her from the cross.

I was not defending the RCC teaching of Mary, I was denying the no one had gone to heaven before Christ part of your statement.

I was not defending the RCC teaching of Mary, I was denying the no one had gone to heaven before Christ part of your statement.

Then you are correct.
To be fair tho.... YOu now that I was referring to the dead, and not the living

edit: seperate ideas combined into one... and it didnt make much sense.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]

I will give you that the dead do not go to heaven. Even today they do not, for it is those who have been given eternal life who enter heaven.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]

Hey Raphael. Thanks for doing my research for me
jake, you got me all confused again. In this here thread, you were very adamant that none could go to heaven before Christ, because "God cannot tolerate sin in his presence". Considering that (according to you) all humanity is sinful, how does it work?

and he cant.
wont.

So what are the options?

Either they went to heaven, or they didnt.

www.cornerstone1.org...

It appears that those two did not.