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Something about Mary (ghosts, demons)

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posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by lapi7
Hello Shmick25,
First of all I want to thank you for having the patience to read my post...I am very humbled...I know it was long. Yes Shmick you are so very correct. All of us have such a long way to go in TRULY portraying the love of Christ to ALL others whether they agree with our theology or not.
But thank God above that you have the love and courage to see and admit it!!! THAT is the way of a Godly man Shmick....you see what few others are willing to see!!! YOU HAVE THE HEART OF CHRIST!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!!
I love you In Christ brother...lapi7

@jake...wow, all that theology and no love
all that Scripture and no love
all that anger and no love
Well I won't let you down brother, no matter what you say I'm still going to love you as my kindred in the Lord!!! 1 Cor. 13



[edit on 4-5-2005 by lapi7]


Oh not a problem lapi, and I will let your condecending attitude go in one ear and out the other like I do with the rest of the people who tell half truths.

smick
As much as every other peson who tries to save themselves by works.
If you follow the catholic false doctrine, you damn yourself. I will not do it.

confessing your sins to a man and then saying prayers to mary doesnt do it. Actually being sorry to God does.

Heres the good part, and Im sure any atheist following this can see it...

YOU have just judged me. LOL. Not only that lapi..you did it 3 times.
But I guess that is what good christians do. They judge christians and never talk about doctrine. Who taught you that love love stuff?
That is a tradition of man, not a doctrine of God. God teaches love and truth.
You know what Jesus said about tradition? This really fits the catholic church too.

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Jesus was a straight forward kinda Christ. He didnt mince word. Later on, this is what he said to that same crew..

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He did this in front of mobs of people.
Lets see how he treated his friends

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter was trying to save Jesus' life, and Jesus called him satan. Pretty good reason for it too...but the point is...he didnt hug and kiss him and all that other watered down stuff we are being told to do

That happened twice

We are supposed to be like Christ. Not halfway. All the way.

1Ti 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
1Ti 1:20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

whoa! Even Paul is doing some pretty mean stuff!!

Wonder what he meant by

2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.


2Co 11:12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.
2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.


Yep, I feel quite secure in exposing what is false.
If me and Paul dont let someone know...you certainly wont

I also know the ignore feature works quite well.
You should try it.






posted on May, 5 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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jake,
you wrote:



Jesus was a straight forward kinda Christ.


Yes, that's true. But He wasen't an angry and hateful arrogant bully!!!




But I guess that is what good christians do. They judge christians and never talk about doctrine.


Yes jake, that's right ANYONE who loves the church and other Christians enough to help them to see where we can improve our spiritual lives and attempts to help a Christian become a better functioning member in the body of Christ and most of all DOSEN'T AGREE WITH YOU is an evil judgemental half truth speaking devil!!!




Lets see how he treated his friends... Peter was trying to save Jesus' life, and Jesus called him satan.


Yes, and 6 verses eariler Jesus was calling peter "blessed" of God and that the Father spoke to Peter!



Yep, I feel quite secure in exposing what is false. If me and Paul dont let someone know...you certainly wont


You have the unmittigated gall and bloated ego to place yourself on the same level as the Apostle Paul??? And to declare that YOU AND YOU ALONE (along with YOUR student Paul) are able to teach the truth to others???
At first I thought you were just a radical fanatic...now it is obvious that you really need to seek professional mental help!!! You are certifiably insane!!!




Who taught you that love love stuff?


Hmmmmm...let me think...'who taught me all the love stuff?' Hmmmmm...let's see now.....um... oh....Jesus?
Yeah...that's right... some guy named Jesus....yeah...that's it...now I remember for sure...that was his name...Jesus...yep!
Yeah...that's right...and now that I think back real hard I think there was another guy...hmmmmmm...let's see....oh yeah...his name was Paul...yep...he said stuff about love kinda like this:

1Cr 13:1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth* but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Cr 13:2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody.
1Cr 13:3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;* but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.
1Cr 13:4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud
1Cr 13:5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
1Cr 13:6 It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.
1Cr 13:7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
1Cr 13:8 Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages* and special knowledge will all disappear.
1Cr 13:9 Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little!
1Cr 13:10 But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.
1Cr 13:11 It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
1Cr 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.* All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.
1Cr 13:13 There are three things that will endure-faith, hope, and love-and the greatest of these is love.

Not only have I truly come to doubt whether you are truly saved your but I also doubt your sanity!! I will pray that you come to Christ and trust him alone for your salvation before it's too late. I (and I hope many other Christians) will definately pray for you! Please place your trust in Jesus Christ for only He alone can save you! And then from there PLEASE seek help from a professional therapist...please jake...for your own sake...I'm afraid for you! God Bless!






[edit on 5-5-2005 by lapi7]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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@Jake1997

All commandments and prophecy hangs from one rule given in two parts. (Mat 22:40)

@lapi7

1Cr 13 is powerful lesson. However, the lesson actually begins in 1Cr 12:31.

I think the people who divided the chapters performed a great disservice to Chapter 13 by including that verse in Chapter 12.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 02:03 AM
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1Cr 13 is powerful lesson. However, the lesson actually begins in 1Cr 12:31. I think the people who divided the chapters performed a great disservice to Chapter 13 by including that verse in Chapter 12.


Good point Raphael. I think this applies to several chapters like the end of Rom. 7 and into Rom. 8. As I'm sure you well know, the chapters and verses were added many years after the original writtings were complete.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 04:58 AM
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Yes Yes,

Everyone...what jake's sorry and misguided mind feels is that if you are just a little tiny bit different than he is, then you of course are going to hell. Jake, you are a freeking stooge.

You mentioned Jewish people and how they are lead astray by satan. Yet your bible says they are the chosen people. If you would remove your head from your anal cavity, you would see that you are a foolish bafoon who repeated what you wrote in your original post from a bible study. Get some original material. Oh, and try to get it from a book that isn't a complete lie.

The bible indicates that Pi=3. Now, for your unintelligent mind, I will try to explain something. Pi cannot possibly = anything but 3.1416........

That leaves two possibilities. Either the bible is wrong or the bible is right. When you make a wheel with Pi=3, then I will believe in your stupid bible. You are probably thinking about how the bible was "close" in this instance. Close? As in, 99% right and 1% wrong? Youre a wacko. Go believe your bible word for word and waste your mind away somewhere else.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Thats perfect.
Your arrogance and judgment are in the same boat with seapeople.

Birds of a feather ....

And all of this because I disagree with you about mary, rome, etc...

The thing is... look at you. Your coming at me again and again..judgments and all...in the name of love. Yeah ok. I will now love everyone with the judgments you have taught me. LOL

I took the ignore off because I saw seapeople had posted and agreed with you. Your posts come across the same as his in case you didnt know it. He always has the most vile things to say to christians on this board, so now I feel quite vindicated that you two are on the same side.

Now what has all this got to do with the mary demons?



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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I took the ignore off because I saw seapeople had posted and agreed with you.


No jake, you took the ignore off because I REALLY BELIEVE BEFORE GOD that you are certifiably insane!!! You are madly in love with your own opinions to the point that you become rabidly defensive towards ANYONE who dosen't side with you (or sides with anyone else who dosen't agree with you as I noted in the above quote) ) IN EVERY POSSIBLE EXACT THEOLOGICAL WAY and is thereby dammed, hellbound, and demonic (Narcissistic Personality Disorder-- another sign of insanity) The love of fighting (Oppositional-Defiant Disorder-- another sign of insanity) Absolutely NO quality of mercy, love or compassion towards anybody else! (simply because that's the way you believe Jesus was (Sociopathic Disorder-- another sign of insanity) You NEVER REALLY answered all the questions that I posed to you throughout this thread regarding love, mercy, apologizes, your connection to the apostle Paul ( Histrionic Personality Disorder--another sign of insanity)and a miriad of other questions...except to quote Scripture and sound like a cartoon parrot "Awwwwwwwwwk...Jusus was tough, AwwwwwwwwK...Jesus was tough ((hi-lo whistle)) Awwwwwwwwwwwwk Polly want a cracker....Polly want a cracker ((hi-lo whistle))" And finally the fact that it would drive you STARK RAVING MAD to not have the last word. ( Pervasive Developmental Disorder--another sign of insanity) So pervasive is your mental illness that I'll bet you don't have the mental, spiritual or intestinal fortitude or inner strenght as a REAL MAN not to reply or answer this post in any way, shape or form...let's see if I'm correct...Let's see if it's possible for you to keep peacefully still and divinely quiet!!! Prove me wrong jake!!!

[edit on 5-5-2005 by lapi7]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Wow. You guys are going off. You should just stop. It is impossible to prove someone is insane from postings on a board. Agree to disagree, amicably. For goodness sake, reading all this invective is making my eyes hurt! Peace be with you all.





posted on May, 5 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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Icarus Rising,
Thank you for your thoughtful insights Icarus...however, in this case I must disagree. I am a vehemant peacemaker and a true believer in love over theology (if you'd read any of my previous posts you'd know that)...however there are times when strong verbal opposition is justified and nesassary!!
If I stated that I thought that all Jews should be systamatically murdered...and you jumped in and fought against such insanity (as any normal and peaceloving person should be obliged to do) would that be wrong??
Just because two people are in a heated disagreement dosen't mean that they are little children who are "both wrong" for "fighting!"
Have you read any of this lunatics ravings??? Did you read the entire thread or any of his other hateful posts? That's the whole point! The man CAN NOT agree to agree to disagree with ANYONE but those who TOTALLY agree with him! Any one can jump into the middle of a situation that they know nothing about and want to come across as the laid back. peaceful, insightful, wise parent figure by urging the "boys to stop fighting"... but that's been my entire point! There is a time for sane rational people to take a stand against tyrany...I'm sorry if we disagree. Peace be with you too Icarus.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Wow. You guys are going off. You should just stop. It is impossible to prove someone is insane from postings on a board. Agree to disagree, amicably. For goodness sake, reading all this invective is making my eyes hurt! Peace be with you all.





You have voted Icarus Rising for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.


Mine too.
Looks like you just got bit tho..

P.S.
I'll go back to the ignore button. This thread is way off topic because lapi dont agree with it. I foolishly fell into the trap and let go this way.

I would love it if the mods would get rid of the posts back to where the information stopped flowing and the bs started.

Peace out

###############

For those of you just joining this thread, the first post contains quotes from mary and then compares them to the bible.
It shows that these RCC approved things are not in line with the bible.
As christians we are taught that anything that contradicts God in the bible, is not from God.
We are also told that anyone who helps such lies spread (ie...approves of them)..is just as wrong.

The RCC does not set christian doctrine. Only catholic doctrine.
This mary is not Mary...if its real at all. (only certain people could ever see them...as opposed to Christ who appeard to all present when He rose from the dead.

Thats the basics.

##############################

[edit on 5-5-2005 by jake1997]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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You win jake...you rallied someone to "your side" and got in the last word just as I predicted...And you were right jake, I pray that I continue to learn the valuable lesson that no one REALLY WANTS to hear the truth and to keep my big mouth shut!!! I will end the whole thing by saying God help you and God bless you jake...goodbye

[edit on 5-5-2005 by lapi7]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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I don't just go wandering into threads and shoot my mouth off for no reason. I read alot, and not just this thread, either.

Here's from another recent one.


Originally posted by lapi7
It's really tough when people are so in love and so involved with the sound of their own voices and opinions that they either don't read or just marginally skim through the posts of others on a thread. LORD WHAT EGOS!!! Junglejake you “skimmed through and didn't see anyone talk about this” when Jehosephat had mentioned it in detail earlier. So many Christians seem SOOOOOO interested in showing off their ‘Theological Insights’ that they just end up sounding like pontificating blowhards. I don’t think that many Christians in the least really “LOVE” anybody but themselves and their own theological opinions! They are in love with argument and debate and have absolutely NO intention of REALLY LISTENING to the opinions of other religions other than to “counter them" and "convert them!" As a Christian I’ve won more people to Christ by being a friend and ally first and REALY LISTENING to others without having to argue, debate and “PROVE MY POINT” to them. And even when Wicca friends of mine agree to disagree I still remain concerned for them and their welfare. And we still remain friends. Actually, it’s quite ironic, Wiccians and many unsaved people I’ve met are FAR MORE LOVING AND TOLORANT THAN MOST CHRISTIANS I KNOW!!!! How very sad to the glorious name of Christ!!!!
(and please fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, don’t give me the old II Cor. 6:14 “…what fellowship doth light have with darkness?” That’s EXACTLY what the Pharisees quoted about Jesus’ hanging out with “sinners” and other unclean and undesirables from different walks of life! Thanks!
[edit on 26-4-2005 by lapi7]


and


Originally posted by Valhall
I'm confused by your anger lapi.

Why did you choose to attach a negative motivation to junglejake overlooking jehosephat's posting? Rather than some "egotistical" motivation, could it not have been that junglejake was just eager to participate in the topic?

Also, where in this thread has any mention of intolerance been mentioned? The scriptures that have been referenced for sure do not point to intolerance. Why did you make those comments toward the posters in this thread?

Odd business indeed.


and


Originally posted by lapi7
Jake1997,
Your anger and insults betray you brother. I believe that they are more potent in proving my point than solidifying yours. I'm just curious jake...I take the time to listen to what the unsaved (many of them are still seeking) dislike about how they are being evangalized. I have simply stated my observations, which I happen to agree with. I could see how many Christian wittnessing techiques can be bothersom to those who are seeking God. I believe one must reach people where they're at like Jesus did. Are you calling a fellow brother in Christ an "anti-christ" for stating my point of view and diagreeing with you brother?


and


Originally posted by lapi7
Good point Vallhall,
Perhaps that was wrong to do. I betrayed myself with my own intolerance!
Suffice it to say that I still believe that many Christians might want to re-evaluate their style and motives in witnessing!


Get the picture? There is nothing to be gained and much to be sacrificed in the needless needling of others. Whose methods are questionable here? Useful communication is key to the exchange of ideas and personal growth. Any conversational technique that interferes with that needs to be modified or replaced in order for communication, and the growth of ideas, to progress. In the infamous words of Rodney King in '92 "Can't we all just get along?"





posted on May, 5 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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Jake,

I have been considering researching this topic, what date should I use to seperate the RCC from the early christian churches? 312 AD?



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 08:22 AM
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Well...there it is. Although I've certainly learned a valuable lesson about the nature of mysef and others and I pray that God will help me stick to my guns in these lessons... I guess I owe everybody on this board and forum an apology. I am certaimly very sorry for all the unrest and trouble I've cause to any one on this forum...I sincerely apologize from my heart...I hope everyone whom I've offended or hurt can forgive me...God Bless!

[edit on 6-5-2005 by lapi7]



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Jake,

I have been considering researching this topic, what date should I use to seperate the RCC from the early christian churches? 312 AD?



If you come up with anything exciting, post it up please!



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by shmick25
If you come up with anything exciting, post it up please!


I did find writings concerning perpetual virginity by St. Jerome written against Helvidius in 383. It seems Helvidius made many of the same arguments Jake1997 uses today.

I haven't actually considered in depth Jerome's reply, because I was waiting for the answer to the question. Without a date of when the RCC seperated from the early church, anything I may quote may be seen as RCC propaganda by those who believe such things.


[edit on 6-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]



posted on May, 7 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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To answer the question exact enough, I would need to know the date that the RCC was founded.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
To answer the question exact enough, I would need to know the date that the RCC was founded.


Good luck finding an answer for that question. No such date exists outside of the founding of Christianity-- The death and resurrection of Christ, and the subsequent ministries.

Though I suppose the east-west schism (aka the Great Schism) in 1054 could be seen as the first time the Catholic Church would been seen as something other than one Church, the term "Roman Catholic" was coined by "Protestant Catholics" during the reformation (late 16th Century).

I suppose you would need to define the RCC a little clearer to determine when the RCC, which you oppose, came into existance. For example, if it is the point when the Catholic Church as lead by the Pope was "required for salvation", then we are looking at a date of 1302 (iirc).



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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haven't actually considered in depth Jerome's reply, because I was waiting for the answer to the question. Without a date of when the RCC seperated from the early church, anything I may quote may be seen as RCC propaganda by those who believe such things.



Scripture tells all. Extrabiblical writings need not be consulted.
The bible makes it clear that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and men
Jesus is the only redeemer
No man can protect us. Only God.
There is not queen of heaven. If there is one, there is many, because it goes all the way back to Eve.

Just quote scripture. Thats all.



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Scripture tells all. Extrabiblical writings need not be consulted.


Scripture tells all?

Let's see what Scripture has to say about that:

Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2Jo 1:12 Having many things to write unto you, I would not [write] with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

3Jo 1:13-14 I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee: But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace [be] to thee. [Our] friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.

Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


It seems "all" may be a bit too strong of a word to use there. Now I will assume that what you really meant to say was suppose to reflect Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), which is doctrine of "Protestant Catholics" used to reject "Roman Catholic" tradition.

I suppose you could argue that "Scripture alone" is enough today, but it was not enough during the days of the early church. Scripture was not the basis of the early Christian church. The basis of the Early Christian Church was the teachings of Christ, His death and resurrection. This good news was passed on through oral tradition. If "Scripture alone" was enough for the early church, then Mat 5:38-48 would not have been a valid teaching because it conflicts with Lev 24:20-22.

You quoted scripture concerning tradition in this thread (Mar 7:6-9), but you did not include the entire lesson, which ends on Mar 7:23. This teaching runs parallel with Gal 5 and Mat 7 (including but not limitted to 7:15-20), the whole of these teachings is brought together in Gal 5:22-23.



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