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Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying!

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posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Classy place this Suadi Arabia. I wonder what they would do to Hindu's, athesists etc? This is sick.

Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying


Riyadh - Saudi Arabia has detained 40 Pakistani Christians for holding prayers at a house in the Muslim kingdom, where practicising any religion other than Islam is illegal, newspapers said on Saturday.

A group of men, women and children were attending the service in the capital Riyadh when police raided the house, Al Jazirah newspaper said.

It said authorities also found Christian tapes and books.

Another Saudi daily, Al Yaum, said the raid took place on Friday while a Pakistani preacher was delivering a sermon. It was not clear what measures might be taken against the group.

Saudi authorities were not immediately available to comment.




Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying


I mean if Isalm is a religion of Peace then why this? I mean they can call others whatever but they can not take it?



Preacher calls Muhammad 'confused pedophile'

Norwegian preacher kindles religious strife
Celebrity Pentecostal preacher Runar Søgaard is under protection by Swedish police after receiving death threats. A high-profile sermon where Sögaard called the prophet Mohammed "a confused pedophile" has triggered fears of religious war.



Søgaard, 37, enjoys celebrity status in Sweden after his marriage to recording star and Eurovision song contest winner Carola, even though they are now divorced.

"Even if I see Runar while he has major police protection I will shoot him to death," a radical Islamist told Swedish newspaper Expressen.

Persons connected to the Kurdish group Ansar al-Islam claim to have received a fatwa, a decree from a Muslim religious leader, to kill Søgaard.


Preacher calls Muhammad 'confused pedophile'



Again a religion of peace?

By Associated Press

April 24, 2005, 7:00 AM EDT

KABUL, Afghanistan -- An Afghan man killed his daughter for allegedly committing adultery, officials said Sunday, but denied reports that she was stoned to death.

Media reports had said the woman was stoned to death in the Badakhshan province by villagers who caught her in the home of a man other than her husband -- a punishment allowed under Islamic law and more commonly reported under the former Taliban government. But police said the reports were mistaken and that Aslam carried out the killing alone on Thursday.

The man she had visited was beaten as a warning but remained alive.

"With the fundamentalists and the hardline mullahs who are in that area, these things are not impossible," Shah Jahan Noori, the provincial police chief, told The Associated Press. "But I know that in this case she was not stoned."

Deputy Gov. Haji Shamsul Rahman said the woman went to the house of a man called Mohammed Karim last Wednesday evening. He said Karim's father had spied the couple, locked them in the house and called people from the village to witness their supposed crime.


Afghan Woman Killed for Alleged Adultery


[edit on 25-4-2005 by edsinger]




posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Classy place this Suadi Arabia. I wonder what they would do to Hindu's, athesists etc? This is sick.

They arrest them.

They also arrest and beat shi'ites.

Its a good example of what happens when religion and government mix too much.

Its illegal to practice any religion in saudi arabia other than Sunni Islam.

These people obviously were aware of this. Their arrests are barbaric and terrible. *shrug* They should've known better.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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And America - and Christian "love" - is "squeaky clean" then??

Ah right - let's see - Guantanamo Bay

"More than two years after the first of the detainees arrived in the US Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Camp X-Ray and its successor Camp Delta, the United States Government continues to exert unfettered executive power in total disregard for the rule of law. Hundreds of detainees remain held in tiny cells for up to 24 hours a day without any legal process.

International law has been flouted from the outset. None of the detainees was granted prisoner of war status nor brought before a competent tribunal to determine his status, as required by the Third Geneva Convention. None has been granted access to a court to be able to challenge the lawfulness of his detention, as required by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Article 9) to which the United States is a party. Detainees have been denied access to legal counsel and their families. When a state, let alone one as powerful as the United States of America, adopts a selective approach to international law and standards, the integrity of those standards is eroded. "

And, wasn't there some prisoner abuse somewhere?? I remember now - Abu Ghraib from here

"Last month, the U.S. Army announced 17 soldiers in Iraq, including a brigadier general, had been removed from duty after charges of mistreating Iraqi prisoners."

To quote one of your expressions edsinger "This is sick". The above atrocities are - agreed.

Come on - ever heard the expression "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"??



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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You'll never get outrage or disgust here for writing about Christians getting arrested for praying unless they were arrested by America, England, or other Christians.

After all, as we've learned reading through this thread, any Christian in Saudi Arabia must be closely tied with America.

Yet another thread where the true fault for this action lies with America. If America wasn't around, the Saudis never would have done this



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
yet another thread where the true fault for this action lies with America. If America wasn't around, the Saudis never would have done this

Lets not be silly, no one agrees that its right and human for religion to be surpressed.

But how come there is no outrage when the saudis arrest and surpress the shi'ites? Could it be because, hypocrtically, no one cares???



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
But how come there is no outrage when the saudis arrest and surpress the shi'ites? Could it be because, hypocrtically, no one cares???


Whats the word Im looking for here?... oh thats right YES



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Yet another thread where the true fault for this action lies with America. If America wasn't around, the Saudis never would have done this


It would be nice if the US would at least put a little pressure on them to stop this instead of just selling the Saudis more weapons and working to get them admitted into the WTO.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Any westerner that goes into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia should understand what the consequences are for coloring outside of their lines. You're on your own, with absolutely no US government recourse. Pure and simple. Accept that or don't go.

That is the reality of it, right or wrong.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Newman, you will not mix apples and oranges in order to throw rocks at both Christianity and the U.S.

The "detainees" aren't being held for having a prayer meeting. You know that very well.

They are also not being held in the name of Christianity, as well you know that.

Is there some kind of huge problem with making intelligent and on topic posts, people?
A tit-for tat, ignorant, irrational response makes no headway in logical, mature fact-finding and knowledge gathering.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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From what it has been posted, it seems these people were arrested for practicing their religion inside a temple of another religion. How would you feel if muslims did their thing in a Christian church?



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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By the way, is it being said that Christianity is an American religion, and that is there is Christianity there, it is because of Americans?

I'll take that notion as a huge compliment, but it isn't true. The region had Christians long before the creation of the U.S.

For years, stories of official executions of those who are Christian and refused to convert has poured out of Saudi Arabia. Children being chopped up, wives raped and impaled because the man would not convert.

This is nothing new. Of course, the response is, "Well, you don't care about the Shi'ites", or the "Whoevers". Naw, we don't care about anyone.

Our actions display that.

Wait a minute; who was it that sent two battlegroups and untold amounts af cash and food to help those countries that are anything but Christian after the tsunami?

Who is it that is trying to help set up a fair government in Iraq, so that the Shi'ites and the Kurds won't suffer at the hands of the minority?

Why is it that hatred always has to seethe out if Christianity or America is mentioned?



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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Try it again, Marterp, it took place at someone's HOUSE.

How would you like it if you were in your own home, practicing your faith, and the doors were taken down?



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Media reports had said the woman was stoned to death in the Badakhshan province by villagers who caught her in the home of a man other than her husband -- a punishment allowed under Islamic law and more commonly reported under the former Taliban government. But police said the reports were mistaken and that Aslam carried out the killing alone on Thursday.

The man she had visited was beaten as a warning but remained alive.

[edit on 25-4-2005 by edsinger]


Please note all you Islamofascists, if they are both guilty, why leave the man alive?
I spend a year in the Majic Kingdom (KSA), and this type of thing went on all the time. The woman was murdered and the man (sometimes) punished, usually by lashes. Why doesn't this lame religion carry out their so called justice equally. Surely, they both sinned, why kill only the woman.

Cowards



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by simtek 22
Why doesn't this lame religion carry out their so called justice equally. Surely, they both sinned, why kill only the woman.

Cowards


Agreed.


Funny how the whole of the Middle East has the wind of change in this though. If 2 years ago you would have been told that the Saudi's would be allowing women to vote, or just plain vote, most of us would have said fat chance.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by junglejake
Yet another thread where the true fault for this action lies with America. If America wasn't around, the Saudis never would have done this


It would be nice if the US would at least put a little pressure on them to stop this instead of just selling the Saudis more weapons and working to get them admitted into the WTO.


Actually it's FRANCE seeling them weapons these days, not he US.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 03:13 AM
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"where practicising any religion other than Islam is illegal"

So they basically broke the law. The moral of the story seems to be:

Don't go to another country and break the law. Especially if said country has a pretty poor human rights record.

Simple.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by masterp
From what it has been posted, it seems these people were arrested for practicing their religion inside a temple of another religion. How would you feel if muslims did their thing in a Christian church?


I know it doesn't really matter what I think, but.. personally, a house of God is a house of God. I consider them all to be sacred, or at least I can respect that others consider them to be holy.

I can never forget guarding King Faud's mosque near Riyad in the run-up to the Gulf War. When the first of our troops arrived in early August, things were unorganized and crazy. Some Saudi officials caught some of our troops up in the mosque urinating in it. To say they were incensed is an understatement. The soldiers presence in the mosque was just too much for the Saudis - let alone their insane defilement - it was an abomination to them. From that time forth, our soldiers rotated on a week-long guard shift, attached to division. I was selected at one point for this duty and we were under strict orders to shoot anyone on sight for being up there. No small order. The thought of shooting one of my own wasn't easy to take; but that was our command.

I remember being alone, through those long hours, walking around the mosque, walking inside the mosque in the complete stillness and silence. Wind chimes tinkled softly, as they hung from every arch along the massive stone circle. There was something definitely holy about it. As a Christian, or a person of the book, as they say, I had nothing but reverence for it. It was a wonder to see.

How anyone could not respect that is beyond me.

As I said before in a previous post, going into the Kingdom, one knows the rules and one also knows - or byGod should know - what the consequences might be for disrespecting their customs and laws. It's pretty simple. You break their law; you pay the price. Do I agree with their ways? NO! But when I am in their country, I abide by their rules. Just as they must abide by our laws when they are here. It's a matter of simple decency and respect. How difficult is that?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
"where practicising any religion other than Islam is illegal"

So they basically broke the law. The moral of the story seems to be:

Don't go to another country and break the law. Especially if said country has a pretty poor human rights record.

Simple.


Exactly. Over there, it doesn't matter where you are - a private dwelling or a mosque; the law is the law and no one gets around it (unless you're a Saudi Royal and can hop on a lear.


It doesn't matter whether or not we agree with their practices. As a sovereing nation, no matter how barbaric we see them, they have a right to live as they wish. If you don't like it, don't go there.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Newman, you will not mix apples and oranges in order to throw rocks at both Christianity and the U.S.

Is there some kind of huge problem with making intelligent and on topic posts, people?

A tit-for tat, ignorant, irrational response makes no headway in logical, mature fact-finding and knowledge gathering.


Well, that puts me firmly in my place Mr Crowne!!


Sorry if this seemed to be an attack on your country and your religion and, coincidentally, being off topic. I apologise unreservedly. However, I would appreciate being able to explain my stance here if I may.


My response was in reply to the original post that seemed criticial of another country's actions and religious intolerance. The implication seemed (to me) to be one that took the "moral highground", in so much as by being caught praying as a Christian in Suadi (sic) you could be arrested. I am not trying to defend Saudi Arabia for doing this - it is reprehensible and is rightly condemned. Freedom of belief should be sacrosanct in any society, although often isn't.

However, the poster made a comment thus:

"I mean if Isalm is a religion of Peace then why this? I mean they can call others whatever but they can not take it? "

My feelings were simply that it might be a case of the "pot calling the kettle black", as some things in recent American history don't exactly make for comfortable reading? That was the point I was trying to make.

If the (unspoken) assertion is that, in contrast, "Christianity is a religion of peace" (unlike Islam, which seems the point of the argument to me) then my use of two examples of - perhaps - less than "loving" attitudes being expressed might be useful as an aide memoire in the discussion, rather than an attempt to derail it. True, the perpetrators might not be "Christians" (practicing or otherwise - I do not know) but they act as agents for a (largely) "Christian" government.

I won't go into detail here but, whilst the 40 Christians in Saudi knew WHY they were being arrested (for praying), those in Guantanamo Bay don't necessarily- no charges have been brought against them - they are held on suspicion, without trial. Hence my appeal to "Not throw stones in glasshouses etc".

My view is that none of us can be "proud" of our intolerance to others, which is often based on misinformation, fear, suspicion and prejudice (pre-justice).

Yes, find fault with other countries, belief systems, faiths, etc, if you must - BUT also be aware of your own systems failing and shortfalls too - that "they (the others)" are "wrong" does not - necessarily - mean you (your government and system) are "right" all the time IMO.

So, apologies again Mr Crowne and readers if I appeared to go off track earlier - but I felt I had to try to explain my stance here.

Thank you for your time - I leave you in peace to continue the debate as you see fit.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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The same people who demand we obey the laws of the united states generally condemn the laws of other nations that don't agree with their principles.

There's definitely a double standard here. However, the double standard is in good company, because it's echoed by the American government. Repressive regimes are all fine and well as long as they play ball in certain arenas. The minute you deny a pipeline request, be prepared for an 'Axis of Evil' moniker.

Being a Christian in the Kingdom is illegal, no surprise there, it's been that way for some time.

Is it right to restrict people's freedom of religion? Not in my opinion, but that hardly matters.

If our opinions dictated foreign laws, global domination would be a moot point, the globe would be pre-naturally dominated. Their opinions dictate foreign law (they being the foreigners), just as our opinions dictate domestic law.

I don't live in Saudi Arabia because I think it's an intolerant, self-congratulatory, backwards ass place, run by fat-heads (with fat-asses) who were installed for the purpose of keeping the oil flowing smoothly down the pipeline. Simple really. I control my own destiny to the degree that I am positive I will never be arrested or detained by Saudi Arabian security forces. The Christians living/preaching there were similarly in control, and I don't think we can over-emphasize the degree to which they are responsible for their current predicament.

I know it sounds horrible to all you Christians, to think you might not be welcome in some parts of the world, what with your illustrious pedigree of crusades and conversions..but the fact is there are places on this globe that don't want to be Christianized. Disregard the wishes of the natives at your own peril.

I think anyone who goes there on a mission to convert people knows what they're getting in to, and would be well advised to stay away. If you're operating a church in the Kingdom, expect to be treated similarly to someone running a meth lab in the states. It's not utopia, but it's reality.

If some loony outsider artist decided my front yard was the perfect 'canvas' for his latest windmill driven sky-thrust phallus sculpture, and wouldn't heed my advice to stay the hell away, he would experience harassment, abuse, and eventual arrest because of his decision (maybe even sabotage, or..GASP..terrorism).

The two situations are not so dissimilar as they might initially appear...



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