John Titor - No need to worry?

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Let's say for arguments sake that John Titor didn't come from a post-apocalyptic future. If only to give the incredible hoax-busters a rest from their hard work.

Clear your minds. Take a deep breath.

In the year 2000 a guy called John started making predictions viz. the breakdown of civil order and a descent into a police state. He foreshadowed a lot of internet chatter about loss of freedoms, loss of control of government and such. This is all very main-stream now, but in the days pre-911, it was still pretty much out there. He was on the mark about a lot of things, which is more than can be said for other prophets.

I'm not sure how "out there" those things were in the 1990's. Waco happened in 1993. By 1995 in Florida (where I grew up) the militia movement was very active in FL, especially in Central FL. Every year in Orlando they would have a "preparedness expo" which we affectionately referred to as "Militia Fest". I know, I went to several of them. The "loss of freedoms" talk was all there. That stuff got cranked up post Waco and really given a kick post OKC. When OKC happened there was patriot act type legistlation passed almost immediately. (Sorry I can't remember the name of the bill. No morning coffee yet).

And, even more interestingly- one might think that "Alas Babylon" is a somewhat obscure book, but it was REQUIRED reading for me and my older sibs in FL public high schools in the 1970's & 80's. We read it in 10th grade (maybe 11th but I am pretty sure it was 10th).

thoughts create images , images create atmospherethoughts create images

I wanna beleive! I wanna believe!! I read for hours and hours too about John Titor. He made some statements to me that make me wonder. I will not say I discount him, let me just say that.

He said "would you be surprised if New York's sky line was missing some towers".

"What if I told you the space shuttle Columbia would have trouble landing"

"Our cheap meat will kill us (mad cow disease) but not to worry about our jellatine products". Interstlingly enough, many many things are made from gellatine and gellatine is a cow by product.

"We sit and watch our consitiution being ripped away from us daily"

All of these things are true. LOL when I hear things on the news that remotely comes close I always think to myself...hmmm, maybe he was real.

What i find really odd is how many people wanna believe

Why do you wanna believe some crackpot fraud????

Anyway maybe this will help finally put an end to all this Titor nonsense...

The end of Titor

Dont worry i will not post anymore of my views on John Titor here... but if you are interested in what i think check out my posts on...


www.abovetopsecret.com...'

The topic of this thread reads, "John Titor - No need to worry?" so even if the first post in the thread posted some questions about implications of stuff, the topic line invites discussion about the reality of John Titor.

Let's face it, every contention in every discussion about Titor is predicated upon Titor's presentation being truthful or not.

"Would you be surprised if the NYC skyline was missing a few towers?"
This statement is spooky, but it doesn't leave me scrambling to get on the "I BELIEVE!" bus.

Titor's time machine that he posted schmatics of -- didn't that turn out to be, like, the inside workings of an EZ-Bake Oven or something like that? That about does it for me.

The only reason anybody has paid any attention to this person is because he was sort of vaguely near the truth in some of his presentations. This is the same reason people are still interested in Nostradamus or Revelations or whoever/whatever else says something cryptic and vague enough to be interpreted at will.

Time will tell in Titor's case. His window of fame is coming to a close because he predicted yearly dates. Nostradamus was more vague and cryptic and he'll be around much longer than Titor because he didn't give dates or specifics.

Zip

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Zipdot]

??
That's new. I don't recall him saying anything about missing towers.


I could have missed it though. Do you remember the exact quote?



and the only thing I recall him saying about the Shuttle was:
"the shuttle may or may not have trouble connecting with the space station"

I missed the other part, if you can point where he said it'd have trouble landing I'd appriciate it



here's everything John Titor:
www.anomalies.net...
including all the original posts (unedited)
www.anomalies.net...

yea, I don't recall any missing towers either. Can someone give me a date on that quote so I can check it out?

Titor also predicted something like a series of Waco events starting at the tail end of 2004 which escalates into civil war. They haven't happened.

Well, looks like I was right. I thought it would be about time to bump this thread up from the bottom again. So are we in a new timeline which explains why John Titor's predictions never came to pass.

One of the things he said involved some major disaster which had happened in his timeline and had been avoided in ours. Many people take this to be the Y2K problem.

Here is a scary thought - If Y2K had happened as predicted and effectively shut down the internet, and for the last 6 years we didn't have the benefit of the internet to counter the main stream news organisations, would the Civil War have happened?

If ATS was not part of your life, would you have been as well informed?

the question you pose about the butterfly effect, in order to go along with that, I think you'd have to demonstrate a cause/effect relationship
like

posters on the boards he visited were somehow able to fix the bug thanks to wisdon from JT

or

JT was an amazing travelling IT genius who worked on all of the computers around the world

I was an IT headhunter in '98, '99, and I can tell you there was a lot of grunt work going on, but most corporate systems were corrected years before JT made the scene. As byrd mentioned, the bug was known about for decades before the big date

Originally posted by Byrd
I'm a retired computer engineer. The idea of Titor "squashing the bug" is hilarious... there never was (as we kept saying) ANY danger. We knew about the bug some 20 years beforehand (1980) and there were (if you hunt for the material) a number of computers on Internet that were hit by the bug.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I was an IT headhunter in '98, '99, and I can tell you there was a lot of grunt work going on, but most corporate systems were corrected years before JT made the scene. As byrd mentioned, the bug was known about for decades before the big date

John Titor
15 November 2000
The first "leg" of my trip was from 2036 to 1975.

Remember John Titor showed up in 1975 first. That would make a possible cause/effect "butterfly effect" relationship.

You guys need to re-read the story lol.........

The only worrying computer systems were those with very short time comparisons, whose effects would only have been observable close to midnight. If power engineering or essential medical equipment - operating on tight time loops - was using invalid dates, failures would have been serious. Here, detecting and fixing Y2K problems did matter, and could not be left to chance.






[edit on 16-1-2006 by XPhiles]

ok, so his mere presence in 1975 causes all the incorrect code to correct itself ?

changing the year doesn't change the fact that you need to explain how all of that code gets fixed.

its very long tedious task to change billions of lines of code all over the world

I find the reference of sci-fi stories as supporting evidence to Titor's story rather fascinating. Couple that fact with the Alas, Babylon story, published in 1959, has some remarkable ties with Titor's own story, and you have what is appearing to be a real life Church Of Trek. Despite that, I make no motions to move Matt Groening to prophet status.

Now, in response to the possibilities I can't wrap my head around:

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
a) Time Travel may be possible.

How does that mean John Titor came from the future? It is possible time travel could exist. It definitely exists for going forward, and going back in time is a theoretical possibility. Does that mean, ipso facto, that John Titor must come from the future? Perhaps the truth is that John Titor first went back to 1957 and gave Pat Frank an idea for a story to make Titor's life more difficult when he would later come back in 1975 to do exactly (almost) what was outlined in Frank's story.

b) There is more to life than what is written in the bible.

I'm aware of that. I drove in to work in something that isn't written of in the Bible.

c) Your inability to comprehend a simple discussion is due to an environmentally induced fugue.

And by comprehend, I assume you're talking about agree. I've read a lot about Titor, Jones, Icke, and the whole group of those whom I believe to be complete charlatans along the lines of the UFO summoner of Las Vagas. It may be that I am in an environmentally induced dream that causes me to be skeptical of everything and question when I see massive holes in someone's claim. If it is true, I'd rather stay in this dream instead of waking and agreeing with whatever I fear to be true or hope to be true.

d) Constantly denying something doesn't make it go away.

Nor does constantly saying something is true make it true. Like you, I am tired of the debunking Titor threads, which, it seems, all Titor threads turn into. I see them not as people wildly dismissing an individual from the future or some prophet dude from 2000 who wanted to get his story across and decided to get his story across by severely destroying his credibility (time travel). I see these threads more as some people getting together and talking about how Star Trek is real, and really happen(ed/s/ing/will have happened/is will have when happened/dang...Douglass Adams was right, tense gets tough dealing with time travel...), while others keep trying to tell them it is a story developed in someone's mind.

Simple answer. Titor has been wrong, wrong and wrong some more. He then explains that in some respects he was right, and that the timeline must have changed. That, or there is a discrepancy in timelines that is common knowledge to all in the future. Outside of conspiracy circles, Titor is not laughed at; he's not known. We here at ATS know of this guy because he talks about things that grab conspiracy nut's, like ourselves, attention and we talk about him. Over and over and over again.

The rest of the world doesn't know who he is. How could he have impacted the world so much if most of the world doesn't know who he is? Is it the conspiracy community that really controls the world to the level that Titor needed? Yet another reason for us to hope that what he says is true: a delusion of grandeur.

I do not subscribe to the Church of Scientology, I don't subscribe to the Church of Trek, and I don't subscribe to the Church of Titor.

[edit on 1/16/06/16 by junglejake]

I have one simple question. Why did he refer to every event as happening to "us" or "we"? If he was from the future, he was not one of us. Unless im mistaken, but I do beleive he used us and we.

Originally posted by junglejake
the Alas, Babylon story, published in 1959, has some remarkable ties with Titor's own story

I am sure you could find numerous sci-fi stories from the past which could have "predicted" certain aspects of the world today. New inventions, way of life, etc. You are a writer Jake, I am sure you could make a good stab at what life in the future will be like, or conversely, life after World War III. The only thing that could be said about the Alas, Babylon book is, it was probably well researched and the author just got lucky being so close to Titor's suppossed future.

I've read a lot about Titor, Jones, Icke, and the whole group of those whom I believe to be complete charlatans along the lines of the UFO summoner of Las Vagas.

Lumping all those people together can be a bit dangerous. Just because one is a pure con-man doesn't mean the rest of them have some small grain of truth to their stories.

It may be that I am in an environmentally induced dream

Life is but a dream......sigh....

I do not subscribe to the Church of Scientology, I don't subscribe to the Church of Trek, and I don't subscribe to the Church of Titor.

Yet you subscribe to the Church of Christianity.

What's the difference? Your prophet is better than everyone elses?

Originally posted by Delirious
I have one simple question. Why did he refer to every event as happening to "us" or "we"? If he was from the future, he was not one of us. Unless im mistaken, but I do believe he used us and we.

While lumped with the rest of it that argument holds a little bit of water, I don't think it's a case closed argument. In talking about history with friends, when America comes up I us "we" for actions America did over 200 years ago. An argument could be made that he identifies with us today and sees us as his ancestors.

Why do I prescribe to the Church of Christ and not the Church of Trek. Believe it or not, I anticipated this question, especially considering your second point to me There are a few reasons that I'll mention, on the surface, but I encourage you to start a thread comparing the church of Titor to the church of Christ, and I'd be happy to weigh in in more depth.

First, click the "JJ's Story" link in my signature. That's a very shortened tale of 4 years of research before accepting Christ as my savior. Second, I started out just as evangelical as I am now, but like a few members here, I was an evangelical atheist. It may seem irrelevant at first, but figure I was going after Bible thumpers, and would research and find arguments against Christianity. As such, I know, generally, where the argument stands against Christianity and its validity. All of those questions had to be addressed before I would throw my lot in with those religious types believing in this Jesus guy. Finally, when faced with a possible contradiction or question to which I don't have the answer to, I don't hide from it, I take it head on because...Well, if I'm wrong about my faith, I don't want to waste my time. To date, Christianity has won out. Yep, that's right, not one question about Christ's validity hasn't been answered through he Bible, science or even psychology (sorry, Deus, I still think of that as a pseudo-science) that I've addressed in my mind (a small subset can be seen here on ATS).

Titor did not hold up to such scrutiny. As a result, I do not believe Titor to be either a prophet or a man from the future. Nygdan raised a fantastic point about Titor that I've noticed happens a lot with Alex Jones, too. I have a rudimentary knowledge of quantum and particle physics because...Well, it kicks butt. Alex Jones would play off of common misconceptions of quantum physics, string theory, and other popularized though often misunderstood scientific concepts. Titor does it differently. He addresses (as a grunt) areas where little or no question could be drawn from his scientific explanation, but claims ignorance on all the issues that would either revolutionize quantum theory or show him to be a fraud. That screams fraud to me. He has the scientific mumbo jumbo to pass his theories off as scientifically solid, and leaves blanks where someone in the know could say, "John...Are you serious? Come on..."

It's a fine con job, though, because he still has this defense of ignorance.

EDIT: Sci-Fi story. Yes, you could find sci fi stories that predict elements of the future. The most terrifying book I have ever read is still 1984. However, almost all of it? On top of all the other problems with Titor's claims? With all the evidence weighing in against Titor, I'm less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as you have.

[edit on 1/16/06/16 by junglejake]

[edit on 1/16/06/16 by junglejake]

Originally posted by junglejake
the church of Titor to the church of Christ, and I'd be happy to weigh in in more depth.

Hmmmm. I wouldn't be that into Titor to start a church worshipping him!! I just find the concept interesting and choose to give him the benefit of the doubt in the same way as I would give "over-use of cell phones gives you brain cancer" the same benefit of the doubt. Better safe than sorry. Don't over use cell phones and don't sit quietly as your freedoms are being torn down around you.

First, click the "JJ's Story" link in my signature.

I read it many many moons ago. Interesting, it is your path, good luck to you.

The most terrifying book I have ever read is still 1984.

I saw the movie again recently. The scene where they are chanting "B.B.! B.B.!" in unison, I swear I could hear them saying "USA!USA!". 1984 is a book that is very chilling in the extent of it's accuracy. Maybe George Orwell was a time traveller as well! LOL!

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
ok, so his mere presence in 1975 causes all the incorrect code to correct itself ?changing the year doesn't change the fact that you need to explain how all of that code gets fixed.its very long tedious task to change billions of lines of code all over the world

I will give you a simple timeline of events of this cause/effect:

1. 1975 a single software engineer is made aware of Y2K bug
2. 1980 several software engineers are aware of Y2K bug
3. 1990 Y2K events have been officially been noted.
4. 1999-2000 Y2K scare

It seems it was a long and tedious task lol.

What kind of question is " code correct itself ", not in 1975 lol.

Y2K bug was obviously in Titor's mind in 1975, though it depends who was around his presence at the time. All Titor had to do is mention the Y2K bug to someone, In which Titor probably spoke to a software engineer about the IBM 5100 that he got, and apparently about the Y2K situation.

Titor:
In order to take advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that
had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975.

There is a good chance that Titor mention the Y2K bug in 1975.

The funny thing is Titor may of been checking in 2000 to see if his "cause/effect" worked lol. He does say "I am here for personal reasons".

Something to ponder about.

Originally posted by junglejake
Because he's a false prophet. Whew!

The truth is, Titor is not even a prophet or even trying to be one. Titor speaks about technological progress that changes human history in his world. People seem to get this confused with making predictions in our world, when in reality he is talking about facts that happened in his worldline not ours.

Titor to no degree even made a prediction in our reality, He only gave a hint to what our future may be like from his world of view. He does undoubtedly describes that if he goes forward in our worldline it is not his future.

Thus no Church of Titor.



[edit on 17-1-2006 by XPhiles]

Not to mention John was supposedly chosen because his Grandfather was on the team that developed the 5100.

Thing is, John described time travel as one would describe Multi World Theorem. The saddest part of his story, fictitious or not, is that when he returns to his time it won't be HIS world, just something really close to his world.

So if time travel is possible, it's not time travel, it's dimensional hopping in a backwards direction, but it also means you can never jump home, only to something very close to home.

Which makes me sad, if what he said was true... because he'll be home, but not really home.

Likewise, he could never return to OUR time. He could only return to a time LIKE ours, not identical.

And he states the difference in temporal dilation increases the further back you go, making going back WAY in time almost useless and very hazardous.

It would suck if John returned to his "Time" only to find that the "Time" he returned to is just so subtly changed that the war was lost for everyone, and nobody survived. That would be the worst possible outcome ever.

here we go again


" I will give you a simple timeline of events of this cause/effect:

1. 1975 a single software engineer is made aware of Y2K bug
2. 1980 several software engineers are aware of Y2K bug
3. 1990 Y2K events have been officially been noted.
4. 1999-2000 Y2K scare

It seems it was a long and tedious task lol.

What kind of question is " code correct itself ", not in 1975 lol.



so you are now also buying his story that he is responsible for avoiding the Y2K problem ? I have this great bridge in Brooklyn, I can sell it to you cheap.....

So if his worldline/timeline is different than ours, why on earth would you believe one post of his about our future ? You can't have it both ways, saying he is a prophet, and then say the timeliens are different. Doesn't work that way

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
So if his worldline/timeline is different than ours, why on earth would you believe one post of his about our future ? You can't have it both ways, saying he is a prophet, and then say the timeliens are different. Doesn't work that way

It's the only way it can work when you're so often wrong. It's the only way it can work if you want to be dubiously famous and making a few bucks on the side. If he's a prophet, he can't be wrong...But he often is. If he's a time traveler, he can say that his action prevented such a horrible prediction as he made. If he's a dimensional hopper, he can say that such an event must not have happened in our timeline. Titor says all three; that's the only way he can sell his ideas.

How much you want for that bridge?