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BUSINESS: No More Online Cigarettes

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posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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This happened a month ago, but I never saw it anywhere, not even here. All major credit card companies have agreed to prohibit online transactions from internet cigarette retailers. The industry has basically been put out of business in a day. It stems from quite a few states banding together with the Feds and the credit card companies over lost revenues, and it gets worse. They are coming for you now if you were an online purchaser.
 



www.consumeraffairs.com
Negotiations with the companies were led by the Attorneys General of New York, California and Oregon. Details surrounding the initiative were discussed today at a meeting in Washington, D.C. attended by representatives from 10 states (New York, California, Colorado, Oregon, Idaho, Louisiana, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Wisconsin), the ATF, and the major credit card companies.

All participants agreed to work together to prevent the processing of payments for illegal Internet tobacco sales.

Spitzer launched the initiative in August 2004 when he contacted the credit card companies and requested that they stop processing transactions for Internet retailers selling cigarettes into New York.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


There are a multitude of issues going on here. Mainly, violation of laws and sale to minors are what the opponents of online sales claim, but it is obviously the loss of tax revenue that is the real issue. Call me naive, but I honestly thought these online sites had the right to sell to the public tax free since most of them are Indian Reservations and they could sell to you if you show up in person. Apparently this is not the case.

Of course, even smokers cannot defend some of the issues on this, but as a consumer, did anyone have a clue this was coming? Did anyone who uses the internet for cigarette purchasing out of convenience and cost factors get any notification from either their source or their credit card company? How do you feel knowing that these online retailers have been forced to give up their customer records? At least two states are currently sending out bills to these consumers for back taxes, and I expect many more will follow. For more information about the back taxes, see the link below.

There is very little being discussed about this on the web, though I noticed a few disgruntled smokers pointing out, if it's they are not allowing credit cards to be used for illegal activity (which is how they are classifying online purchasing of cigarettes), how come you can still use them for online porn, prescription drug purchasing, etc. This could really get interesting.

Related News Links:
www.nacsonline.com

[edit on 4/16/2005 by Relentless]




posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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When they came for the Indians, I said nothing,
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing.
When they came for the blacks, I said nothing.
When they came for me, nobody said anything.

A cigarette smoker does not beat his/her wife/children, but an alcoholoc does..
Is wine/ beer next on the boycott list?
Whether one smokes or not, this is big brother unparalled out of control..

Seems hybrid are allergic to cigarette smoke?? anyone else know that?




posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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damm i wish i had found one of those sights myself
this is the first i have even heard of them.

obviously i am a smoker. i am also a pissed off smoker

look i now know that smokeing is bad for me. that however has not made it any easyer to quit. i am most definately addicted. i have blown money uselessly on ways to stop smokeing, for no gain.

now tobaco is a LEGAL product. why should i be so unfairly taxed just because when i was young i developed an adiction for this legal product. cigaretts here are about $10/pack, a unfair share of that taxes. this is about 1/4 of what i make after other taxes. does that not sound like a burden? when smokers comment on this we are told is that mabe it is time that we quit, unless of course it is another smoker. do people honestly belive that when i spend so much money that i haven't tried to quit? heck an old friend managed to quit for five years before he ended up giveing in and restarting. he just could not take the craveings anymore. myself i have tried to quit so many times i made a new years resolution a few years ago, to stop makeing new years resolutions to quit.

smokers now face discrimination as well. we are forced to smoke out doors which tends to let us get sick more often as we huddle in phoneboths and in corners to try to get out of wind, snow, and rain. we are prohibbited from smokeing in any workplace or building that is open to the public. restraunts even spent fortunes on special encloseures with separate venting systoms, and were forced to stop people from smokeing in them. it seems the only places we can have shelter to smoke is in private cars and homes. if you happen to have children you are even demonized for smokeing there. we are just waiting for it to be made illigal in our homes and cars. they even tried a few years ago to stop you from smokeing while you drive. and we are chrged heavily for the "privalage" to have this done to us. they CLAIM it is to get us to quit, in reality it is to make up for revinue lost due to those that are lucky enough to be able to quit.

if they want to stop people smokeing so much then instead of makeing our lives miserable, not to mention beggering us, perhapse they should find a way to end the damm craveings perminantly. then we just would have to try to deal with the mental adiction. mabe since we have paid so much into government coffers they should provide any and all ways to stop smokeing for free, then we can try all of them untill we could find one that actualy works for each individual. another of my friednd's mother quit well over 40 years ago, guess what she still suffers craveings.

we had a cigarette smugleing here a few years ago, now we have this deal through the internet. why would it be so much cheeper and people are still makeing a damm good proffit from it? this is because people are desperate to avoid being so heavily burdoned finantualy. we have people who would not dream of breaking laws buying illigal cigarettes, should this not be seen as a major sign that they are too expensive. dureing our smuggleing time we heard every day almost of places being broken into and all that was stolen was cigarettes. truck hijackings for cigarettes happened as well.

it's not as if people who smoke are the ritch, many are from the low income classes of people. people who have enough problems affording to survive with out being ripped off so heavily over the fact we are ADICTED to cigarettes. trust me when i say if i was able to quit i would have quit years ago. why should i pay so dearly for being adicted to a legal substance. they know we are fairly powerless to quit so they also know that however much they decide to chare will be paid. it is a rather nice blackmail oeration they have going.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 05:56 PM
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The real issue here is that cigarette sales over the internet are illegal, even if it is the lost tax revenues of the states that was the impetus for action. Personally, I don't know how people pay the price of cigarettes, even here where they seem to run just a little south of $5.00 a pack, for such a worthless, destructive habit.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:05 PM
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Seems obesity is the same or more cause of death than is cigarette smoking,the 'gov't 'says 400K a year from cigs and 400K from obesity..???
It is just the 'fact' that PTB are allowed to say what lawful Americans can do and what they cannot do.
This is dangerous,,,and nobody seems to see the stormtrooper tactics here.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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No need to worry, they'll just switch to COD orders where you can pay by money order or certified check when they arrive. It'll be more inconvenient, but still cheaper.

I switched to roll-your-own loose tobacco a while ago, it is cheaper than even mail-order cigarettes even when purchased locally since it taxed completely different.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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siriuslyoneA cigarette smoker does not beat his/her wife/children, but an alcoholoc does

Er?

Since when? Whats it matter anyway? Cigarette sales on line are still legal, they're just not doable with a major credit card. Too many people abused the privilege of being able to buy them online by being minors and not paying the proper taxes. This is what happens when you abuse that privelige.



[edit on 16-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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I'm with siriuslyone. I think that is what is disturbing about this scenario.
Now that they have taken a step like this on this one issue, where can they go from here?

Also, why would people know it was illegal if it was freely available for years?



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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>>Since when? Whats it matter anyway?



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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grady asked why one would spend so much. well simple realy we are adicted, hooked, we NEED it. now that may seem ridiculas to you personaly. but when you smoke it is a reality. just like a junki needs his fix. in fact i have heard throughout the years that cigarettes are one of the hardest if not the hardest drug to try to quit.

the better question is why did someone START to smoke. there are many reasons but they all seem valid to those who they belong to. myself it was stupidly listening to my highschool teachers. sounds rather stupid don't it? a tacher telling a kid to smoke? well they did not say smokeing exactly. i was one the outcast kids. many teachers told me i needed to try to fit in. one example was given quite often was this. "if your peers go out for a coffie then you should go and have a coffie with them, if they go out for a beer you join them, this how to make friends, you need to do what they do, otherwise you will not make any friends".

well i don't realy like coffie but i did (tripple tripple or better). i took up drinking (even though i was alergic to beer, so i only could drink hard liquer), and i started to smoke cigarettes and weed, even tried lsd once. well it didn't help me in the friends department but i got hooked on cigaretts.

i mean thinking as a grade 9-10 student coffie, tastes nasty but put enough sugar and cream in it and you are fine. beer and alcohal, taste nasty but i could force it down esp mixed drinks, everyone knows it causes brain damage but that obviously isn't that bad as most people drink right. ( got one hell of a two week hangover once when i went with someone to have a beer, we don't know how much voldka i had as well as that beer, probably should have stopped when i started seeing 5 of things but i didn't know better yet). then we come to cigarettes, remember the old warning? SUGEION GENERALS WARNING: CIGARETTS MAY BE HARMFULL TO YOUR HEALTH. they were cheap at the time as well. heck we shoveled one driveway and we could aford a couple packs. all the kids i had a chance with seemed to smoke. if drinking is ok then smokeing is too. one we were told caused brain damage the other only might affect us, so why not.

i had always been told that both smokeing and drinking were wrong, so wasn't it logical if i was told i should join my friends drinking that i should also smoke? after all drinking from what i knew was worse then smokeing. so i made a mistake, and am paying for it now as i have been hooked almost 20 years. i have tried to quit more times that i can count but i am still hooked. money dosen't matter as much as my fix. if i have no money i will try to bumm smokes or even smoke cigarette butts whatever i can get my hands on. disgusting but when you are desperate you do desperate things.it is not a matter of wanting, i haven't wanted a cigarette for many years, it is a NEED. and that is why i continue to pay so much. i just can not stop. been there tried that still smokeing strong. now when i smoked weed it was not a problem to quit, i just quit. but smokeing is another story all together. you are a SLAVE to nicoteen.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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I don't think there is anyone who can debate that none of us should smoke, but the issues I find disturbing are 1) these Indian Reservations have been allowed to sell online for years, so as a consumer, it would not occur to most that it was illegal, since you can go there in person and buy them 2) these businesses have been shut down overnight, 3) the customers had no indication that anything was going on till their standing orders just stopped shipping, so obviously no one was told what was going on, the websites are frozen in time, they do not return emails or answer the phones, they are just gone 3) cigarettes are taxed unfairly, no one can debate that, 4) the consumers information has been passed on to other agencies and I suspect most will not know it till they get a bill from their state.

This has been handled in a way that is ugly and disturbing. Now, where can they (they gov't) go from here? Seriously think about this. It's kind of scary.



[edit on 4/16/2005 by Relentless]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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>>This has been handled in a way that is ugly and disturbing. Now, where can they (they gov't) go from here? Seriously think about this. It's kind of scary.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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I am also a nicotine addict. Right now I am a recovering nicotine addict. It took many years and many quits before I accomplished being smoke free now for 10 months. Like a recovering alcoholic, a nicotine addict must always be on guard.

That said, for the past few years I bought my cigarettes on line too. I did not know that it was illegal.

My question is: Does anyone know if we have any recourse against being billed for this tax on prior purchases that they are talking about?



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
That said, for the past few years I bought my cigarettes on line too. I did not know that it was illegal.

My question is: Does anyone know if we have any recourse against being billed for this tax on prior purchases that they are talking about?


Apparently not Mahree, the states that have sent out bills already are going back four years from what I can see. All I can say is thank goodness I left NY in 2001, one of the worst for the amount of taxes/pack.

The other thing I have found is that most smoker's sites are gone and the few that remain, no one is posting. It is said that those sites are being watched also. so I would hesitate to think people are going to band together for relief under the circumstances.

In my case, I am slated to quit again in a few days. If I get a bill from my current State I will pay it without protest, as I am not going to argue the law if that is the law, like it or not. My hope is that many states will not commit the resources to collecting the back taxes, but only be happy to get their revenue moving forward.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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I smoked for many years so I know how addictive cigarettes are. I haven't had one for seven or eight years, but when I quit, I think the cheap brands were still about a buck a pack.

The fact of nicotine addiction is that after three days without it, you're over the physical withdrawal. After that it's all psychological and and sociological.

Put them down, now. You can quit and you'll be the healthier and the sweeter smelling for it.


[edit on 05/4/16 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 10:04 PM
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smokers now face discrimination as well. we are forced to smoke out doors which tends to let us get sick more often as we huddle in phoneboths and in corners to try to get out of wind, snow, and rain. we are prohibbited from smokeing in any workplace or building that is open to the public. restraunts even spent fortunes on special encloseures with separate venting systoms, and were forced to stop people from smokeing in them. it seems the only places we can have shelter to smoke is in private cars and homes. if you happen to have children you are even demonized for smokeing there


discrimination? lol, does being of a certain religion give someone next to you cancer? or does being a certain race destroy someones lungs just for being around you too much? maybe if your disgusting habit wasnt harmful to others this wouldnt happen, stop doing it if you want to complain about being forced away from others who prefer staying healthy and smoke free.

keep your cancer, ulcer, acid reflux, asthma, and heart disease causing gas to yourselves.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by namehere

discrimination? lol, does being of a certain religion give someone next to you cancer? or does being a certain race destroy someones lungs just for being around you too much? maybe if your disgusting habit wasnt harmful to others this wouldnt happen, stop doing it if you want to complain about being forced away from others who prefer staying healthy and smoke free.

keep your cancer, ulcer, acid reflux, asthma, and heart disease causing gas to yourselves.


i can understand you not wanting to have to breath in my smoke. but what about rooms with separate vent systoms? we had them installed at some restraunts but they have been outlawed as well. and i will be honest because they will not alow it people have started to smoke in corners, bars and donut shops typicaly will turn a blind eye towards it. you see an awfull lot of smokeing going on in taxies by both passengers and drivers, strictly against the law mind you. when i got hooked we were not discriminated against but there were rules that tended to be followed.

all a smoker wants is a place they can smoke out of the eliments, somewhere where we don't have to freeze just because we are unable to quit. in this time of worrying about green house gasses why are we forced to idle our engines to escape the cold of winter or heat of summer, thus wasteing gas and adding polution. in the parking lot at work we typicaly have about ten vehicles idleing for up to a half hour at a time as smokers try to stay warm or cool. i was once alowed to smoke in the stairwell at home but due to one person that is no longer alowed, (and you know what, the air has just as much smoke in it due to the fact that most people smoke in their appartments lol). like i have said before if they come up with something that gets rid of the adiction to nicateen then most of us would be able to quit and stay quit.

and i do not only mean we are dicriminated about where we can smoke but the unfair taxation of it as well. why has the price become about five times as much in the last ten years? my pay certainly hasn't.

as for asthma i don't suffer nearly as much from my asthma since i began to smoke but once i stop for a few days it comes right back, i have no clue why this happens but it does.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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This comes as no suprise really. Paypal, cod, and perhaps debit transactions (if they are not counted as cc transactions) could still be done. Alcohol sales online have been banned in the U.S. since the mid to late 90's(96/97??), with the net population not nearly as robust as it is now, it is uncommon wisdom.

I wonder if the drug cartels have sophisticate themselves to do online drug trade by way of custom sub-net?(semi-rhetorical) The web is still quite young, so other possible uses that may be controversial years from now, are in probablity being devised or in an experimental phase... The key is in tapping into the pocket money of the human creature on the other side of the wire so to speak...



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 02:36 AM
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Not to worry everyone... most of the cheap ciggarett sites are still up and running accepting personal checks. If people want to kill themselves let them... the more that die from smoking the better... it will make our gene pool cleaner... more smart people who don't smoke make for better genes!



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by drogo

Originally posted by namehere

and i do not only mean we are dicriminated about where we can smoke but the unfair taxation of it as well. why has the price become about five times as much in the last ten years? my pay certainly hasn't.
It is PC or politically correct to do anything to smokers that you want. In the beginning the extra taxes were to "pay" for education and the "extra medical" burden caused by smoking. Now, the state comes right out and adds the tax during budget shortfall.


as for asthma i don't suffer nearly as much from my asthma since i began to smoke but once i stop for a few days it comes right back, i have no clue why this happens but it does.
The smoking covers symptoms of many problems and perhaps this is what is happening with you when you stop.

When I quit I became sick unto death and was finally diagnosed as hypothyroid disease. I brought up the problem you state of not having the hypothyroid problem before I quit. I was told that the smoking masks symptoms.

I also knew someone else who "got" asthma after he quit smoking. Same deal. Ask your doctor to help you. My doctor watched my blood and adjusted my medication for hypothyroid disease until I was about 6 month quit. My blood had changed.



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