BUSINESS: No More Online Cigarettes

Originally posted by craig732
If people want to kill themselves let them... the more that die from smoking the better... it will make our gene pool cleaner... more smart people who don't smoke make for better genes!

Okay, we get it, you have total disdain for smokers, but I have heard this ignorant belief before, that some of you who don't care for it seem to think it has something to do with intelligence. This thought is more a commentary on yours. So for your own sake I would recommend keeping that one to yourself as it does nothing to add to your credibility, since IQ has nothing to do with whether or not a person smokes.

I understand you may view it as how can anyone with any brains, knowing what they know, do it anyway, but it has nothing to do with that. It's an addiction, and intelligent people are not any less prone to the physical chemistry that causes addiction.

Can we keep the nasty nonsense out of this thread? I am posted this more as a consumer issue than an opportunity for non-smokers to bash smokers.

I smoke- never used an on-line shop but thought about it a few times.

The thing about this move that troubles me is the ""law"" aspect. Here, really secret, a behind the scenes legal understanding has taken place whithout action by legislature.

Judges should not make law, neither should 'agents' and Attorney Generals.

Kind of curious that this has been going on for years and just now the gov is getting onto it and going after back taxes. Kind of wonder where their heads were when it all began. this whole episode is, while perhaps somewhat smaller, on a par with the great prohibition era of the roaring 20s.

And I don't think this particular thread is the place for people with nasty anti-smoking attitudes to be proselytizing, or degrading smokers.

So...is it also ilegal to mail ciggs to someone through the mail? What if I wanted to mail a carton to my son in Canada? WOuld I get in trouble?

Originally posted by LadyV
So...is it also ilegal to mail ciggs to someone through the mail? What if I wanted to mail a carton to my son in Canada? WOuld I get in trouble?

Its perfectly legal to mail cigarettes aslong as the recipient is old enough to buy them on thier own. If you were to mail cigarettes to a 14 year old, that would be illegal, but a 19 year old (Its 19 in most provinces of canada) would be perfectly fine. He may have to pay taxes once he gets them, depending on if customs opens the package or not.

Why are you wasting your time arguing over smokers when the issue her is yet another coporate policy to squeeze the market for more profits to the fat cat.

America needs to wake up and smell the coffee, corporate compaines are getting blood out of stone and you can only argue the facts instead of seeing the real agenda here.

...

. >>Alcohol sales online have been banned in the U.S. since the mid to late 90's(96/97??), with the net population not nearly as robust as it is now, it is uncommon wisdom.

second hand smoke MAY cause problems . Smoking eventaly Does cause problems (in your 70des or even 80des ) . Cant count the smokers I know of OVER 80 george Burns him self lived to 100 smoked cigars .
so wile ill grant you can have problems from smoking if you have NO gene defects it wont be untill your much older to begine with .
My grandfather lived to 85 smoked 3 packs Of the heavy kind a day.
Now Im not saying its good it Isent .
But hears a VERY valid point smoking (MAY) alichoil DOES kill young and Will kill others right off the bat .
you say 400,000 die of realated alichole? more like 4 million if you count all the traffice acctedents .
My smoking WONT kill your child but YOUR DRINKING will kill my child .
Ps I know Of no ONE who died younger the 60 decause of smoking .
I know personly of 7 or 8 in there 40des dieng of sorosis .
and pick up any city news paper and read how manny KIDS (YOUR Kids) are killed by drinking every day .
The guy next to your smoking isent the problem the guy drinking next to you WILL be soner or later.
you bash all you want meen wile that DRUNK is getting in his car going down your street.

Originally posted by LadyV
So...is it also ilegal to mail ciggs to someone through the mail? What if I wanted to mail a carton to my son in Canada? WOuld I get in trouble?

oh you can mail it to him but fear not he will be paying the taxes. i once ordered a cheap video game about ten bucks (wasn't even worth that:lol. anyway when it came to my door i had to pay $20 in taxes for it. if i had been smart i would have told them to keep it. my friend has orderd stuff from games workshop in the uk, that was not available here and he too had to pay taxes on it. the canadian government realy tries to make sure they get their full taxes whenever possible. and more once they hit you for the handleing fees as well to collect the tax.

the canadian government has even tried to go after the tobaco industy here to get the tax money from all the smuggleing years ago (haven't heard of any outcome from it). as far as i'm concerned they should not be alowed to collect extra "sin" taxes on products. if they need the damm tax so much it should be done in such a way that everyone and not just a spacific group pays it. "sin" taxes are just a form of discrimination.

now if they had used such money (all of it) to do things like build smokeing areas in workplaces and buildings open to the public, spacific reserch into finding a cure for nicoteen adiction, and provideing all stop smokeing stuff for free, then i would be not so PO'd about it.(they would still need to lower it though so it is not such a burden on the smokers). but they do not. just like gas taxes were meant to go ONLY for things such as road maintanance. GST was suppost to go DIRECTLY to pay off the national debt. and there are more like that. but no they go into the general coffers to pay for garbage like daycare, and other stupid gov programs. daycare wouldn't even be needed if companies were forced to pay enough for one person to be able to afford to live, even with a family on ONE full time job. then if both parrents wished to work they could afford their own daycare. not to mention single mothers might even be able to get support without beggering ex husbands. maybe single mothers could make due without a job or even with a part time job.

Originally posted by drogo
the canadian government has even tried to go after the tobaco industy here to get the tax money from all the smuggleing years ago (haven't heard of any outcome from it).

Several years ago, a woman I worked with used a mail-order service for her friends and family's cigarettes. The feds got the records of all shipments sent by this particular company, and calculated tax bills based on them. She got a bill for $7400 six months later, based on the weight and number of shipments she received. There was no arguing with them, and they did not need to prove what was in the package (they got the records from FedEx). They put a lien on her house, and a garnishee on her salary.

Moral of this story: In Canada, you are legally obligated to pay the tax on these cigarettes, whether or not customs opens the package. Revenue Canada looks upon this sort of thing as tax evasion.

The worst thing about this was that several of the people she ordered them for weren't the good friends she thought they were. Several of them, including family members, refused to help her with the bill, and she was stuck paying almost all of it herself.

Originally posted by Duzey

Moral of this story: In Canada, you are legally obligated to pay the tax on these cigarettes, whether or not customs opens the package. Revenue Canada looks upon this sort of thing as tax evasion.

What does Canada have a law like the Jenkins Act? If so can you quote the statue?

Originally posted by shots
What does Canada have a law like the Jenkins Act?

Yes and no. While it is legal (I think) to mail cigarettes as a gift, the only time they are allowed to be sent through the mail inter-provincially, for remuneration, is between an authorized wholesaler and retailer. In this situation, yes, there is much reporting to be done. It is slightly different from the Jenkins Act, though, as I understand it. Instead of monthly reporting, the wholesaler must either pre-approve each shipment, or pay the provincial tax up-front, and apply for a refund later. This bulletin describes the system, and lists the relevant Tobacco Tax Act regulations at the bottom:

Wholesale dealers who make sales to out-of-province locations must either pay the security or apply for a pre-authorized exemption from the requirement to pay a security on those sales.

An application for a pre-authorized exemption from the requirement to pay a security must be forwarded to the Director, Consumer Taxation Branch, at the address indicated below. The application must be in writing and include the following information.

- Name, address, and permit number of applicant.
- Name and address of the customer(s) to whom the tobacco products will be shipped.
- Quantity of tobacco products being shipped.
- Date of shipment or frequency of shipments to that customer(s).
- The amount of the security for which exemption is requested.
- Applicant's or customer's registration in the receiving jurisdiction.

www.rev.gov.bc.ca...

As for reporting sales to individuals, no, there is no system. The main reason being that it is illegal to send or offer to send cigarettes through the mail in exchange for money, inter-provincially.

13. (1) No person shall, for consideration, cause a tobacco product to be delivered from one province to another or to be sent by mail unless the delivery or mailing is between manufacturers or retailers or the person is otherwise exempted by the regulations.

(2) No person shall advertise an offer to deliver a tobacco product from one province to another or to mail a tobacco product.

Dept of Justice Canada - Tobacco Act

But, just to cover the bases, we have provincial laws (Tobacco Tax Act) to deal with just such a situation. This is because the CRA doesn't care if it's illegal, it still wants its money. I'm using my province's laws here, but I think most of the other provinces are similar. Quebec may be an exception, as they sometimes have different laws than the rest of Canada.

British Columbia residents who buy tobacco products at retail from out-of-province retailers must pay the British Columbia tax as though the purchases were made in the province, regardless of whether the transaction takes place in British Columbia or at a location outside the province. This includes tobacco products delivered by courier, or any other means.

Tax is due at the time the tobacco products are received in the province and must be paid directly to the government. Failure to comply will result in an assessment of the tax due. Interest charges and/or a penalty may also be imposed.

www.rev.gov.bc.ca...

In Canada, the onus is on the individual taxpayer to report any taxes due. The whole system is self-assessment, and if you do not pay tax on a purchase you are legally obligated to fill out a form, and mail them a cheque. If you don't, and get caught, the resulting penalties and interest can sometimes almost double the bill.

And that's just the provincial taxes. As a few other have mentioned there is the GST. Once they catch you for provincial taxes, they will check to make sure you don't owe them any GST, and if you do, that's a whole new set of penalties and interest.

Dear Relentless:
What makes you think I am a non-smoker? I smoked for 15 years. I was not born with an addiction to cigarettes... I made a concious, dumbass decision to stick a cigarette in my mouth that first time I did it. If I had been more intelligent, I would not have started in the first place. My point was not to degrade smokers. I truly believe that anyone, myself included, that wants to indulge in stupid, self-destructive behavior (smoking, drugs, not wearing seat belts, etc.) should have the freedom to do so and should not be taxed or penalized by government agencies for wanting to. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it is not unintelligent to engage in self-destructive behavior that is wonderful... I am thankful that we still have the freedom to voice our feelings here without censorship. I still think it is great that people who make unintelligent decisions sometimes die... it can act as an incentive for others not to engage in this type of behavior and maybe eventually it will erase this type of behavior from our genetic memory and improve humanity.

[edit on 18-4-2005 by craig732]

[edit on 18-4-2005 by craig732]

[edit on 18-4-2005 by craig732]

[edit on 18-4-2005 by craig732]

I thought it only fair to report my recent development in this issue. I have lived in Florida since 2001. Today I received a certified letter form the Department of Business and Professional Regulation, Division of - you guessed it - Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco.

They have all my online purchases from the retailer I used and have sent me a bill for the taxes due going back to when I moved here. I have been keeping an eye on this and saw nothing to confirm Florida was jumping on the bandwagon on this one, but they have.

Now, where are those 2.5% credit card checks I received in the mail. Oh, nice timing too, considering hurricane season is starting and I am still trying to get my finances back to normal after last years storms.

I wonder if this counts towards the sales tax deduction on my tax returns. Probably not, I'm not sure if this is considered a sales tax or an excise tax, I'll have to check into that.

cigaretts here are about $10/pack

even here where they seem to run just a little south of $5.00 a pack

I love living in Virginia, Land of 2 dollar or less per gallon of gas and $2.10 pack of smokes(by the carton) I can find em less than 2 dollars sometimes.

Originally posted by Simcity4Rushour
second hand smoke MAY cause problems . Smoking eventaly Does cause problems (in your 70des or even 80des ) . Cant count the smokers I know of OVER 80 george Burns him self lived to 100 smoked cigars .
so wile ill grant you can have problems from smoking if you have NO gene defects it wont be untill your much older to begine with .
My grandfather lived to 85 smoked 3 packs Of the heavy kind a day.
Now Im not saying its good it Isent .
But hears a VERY valid point smoking (MAY) alichoil DOES kill young and Will kill others right off the bat .
you say 400,000 die of realated alichole? more like 4 million if you count all the traffice acctedents .
My smoking WONT kill your child but YOUR DRINKING will kill my child .
Ps I know Of no ONE who died younger the 60 decause of smoking .
I know personly of 7 or 8 in there 40des dieng of sorosis .
and pick up any city news paper and read how manny KIDS (YOUR Kids) are killed by drinking every day .
The guy next to your smoking isent the problem the guy drinking next to you WILL be soner or later.
you bash all you want meen wile that DRUNK is getting in his car going down your street.

You've never known someone under 60 who died from smoking-related illness?? Lucky you. Obviously, the logic here is - just because you don't know anyone, doesn't mean others haven't succumbed. An example might be...well...a relative of mine. She was 42 when she was first diagnosed with lung cancer. She died at 46. Her case is not as rare as you might think, sadly.

Come on.

It's simply false to state that cigarettes won't harm you until you're in your 70s and 80s.. We have years and years of medical texts that prove otherwise, and even more anecdotal evidence. (Wait - that evidence must be all part of a conspiracy, right? )

(Fwiw, Roy Castle was a much-loved entertainer in Britain. He died at 62 from lung cancer; he was a life long non-smoker. He simply spent too much time entertaining in smoke-filled bars).

Alcohol doesn't kill everyone who drinks. Neither do car accidents. Such generalisations render the point pretty moot. Don't misunderstand me though - I'm fully aware that drinking alcohol becomes lethal to many, many people, either directly or indirectly. But so does smoking....and not only to the smoker. That's the point being made.

Nobody is bashing you. But perhaps you'll reconsider your post after seeing evidence to the contrary?

Yeah sorry the argument that you simply "don't know" anyone that has died doesn't work. That's like me saying I wanted to find out if I had AIDS in a roundabout way, and I asked my friend Josh if he knew anyone that has AIDS, and he said no. And I say good cause you know me.



[edit on 16-6-2005 by NoJustice]