Alabama court rules frozen embryos are children, chilling IVF advocates

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: bastion

(freedom from religion/right to life, liberty and happiness)

I'd be willing to pony up 100 bucks if you can show me where it says freedom from religion in the constitution.

I'm from the UK and thought it banned any laws mandating/estabishing a religion but seems that clause only applies to congress rather than states.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Many religions don't believe that life starts at conception. For example, Judaism doesn't believe that life begins until the first breath is taken. This ruling potentially denies Jewish people access to a medical procedure based on religious beliefs they do not hold.

a reply to: Threadbarer

Too many times here on ATS, people like yourself have illustrated how wrong aspects of religious beliefs are.

They are free to believe what they want, but belief does not supersede science.

a reply to: Threadbarer

The Establishment Clause is a limitation placed upon the United States Congress preventing it from passing legislation establishing an official religion, and by interpretation making it illegal for the government to promote theocracy or promote a specific religion with taxes.

Important part is that it limits congress.

a judge is not part of congress, the fact he used religion instead of just legal precedent in the decision guarantees it will be overturned.

a reply to: bastion

It says congress cannot establish a state religion the judicial branch can only rule on the legality of something this judge made certain he would be overturned by bringing religious text into it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

So you're saying Jewish religious beliefs are wrong and that state should be free to tell them as such? That seems a tad anti-Semitic to me.

By the way, embryos at this stage do not meet the biological definition of life.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: DBCowboy

So you're saying Jewish religious beliefs are wrong and that state should be free to tell them as such? That seems a tad anti-Semitic to me.

By the way, embryos at this stage do not meet the biological definition of life.

*sigh*

Human embryos are, human. They are just at a different developmental stage that you or I.

As for state determining religion? Any religion that uses human sacrifices would be banned, n'est-ce pas?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Human embryos are, human. They are just at a different developmental stage that you or I.

That's a pretty powerful argument.

Haven't heard it put exactly like that yet.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: bastion

It says congress cannot establish a state religion the judicial branch can only rule on the legality of something this judge made certain he would be overturned by bringing religious text into it.

Thanks for the info, that does make a bit more sense.

So if/when it is overturned will the couple still get their compensation (well deserved in this case) but prevent a precedent from being set that would mandate/establish a state religion/ban any risky medical procedure?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: DBCowboy

Human embryos are, human. They are just at a different developmental stage that you or I.

That's a pretty powerful argument.

Haven't heard it put exactly like that yet.

Infants are at a different developmental stage, teenagers are at a different developmental stage.

We go through developmental stages where our very physical structure changes, our endocrine system molds and shapes us all throughout our lives.

a reply to: DBCowboy

At this stage they are blastocysts. A mass of undefined cells.

a reply to: bastion

My guess is it will be kicked back down saying drop the religious stuff and just rule on the agreement.

My wildly uniformed ignorant guess would be that yes eventually they will get compensation, but who knows how long and how much lawyers will take of it before that happens.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: DBCowboy

At this stage they are blastocysts. A mass of undefined cells.

You, typing on your computer, are a mass of cells.

a reply to: DBCowboy

That part I assume was implied.


I was thinking in terms of disabilities and a slippery slope.

a reply to: DBCowboy

As I said, a blastocyst does not meet the scientific definition of life. It seems to me you're simply trying to establish your religious beliefs as being right but you're trying to hide that fact by hiding behind science, except your science is bad.

Why do you believe this judge has the right to rule which religious beliefs are right and which are wrong?

a reply to: Dandandat3

2025 is going to be fun. Just one of the many coming type of laws to go from the state to the national level, I fear.

If the GOP goes the first year without going super-vengeful with religious influenced legislation, I'll covert to Islam and wear a rape scarf.

In the America that will be Alabama's Wrongful Death of a Minor Act will be acceptable state's rights and California's SCA 10 will get sacrificed to zygote-affirming sanctimony.

That's how it appears, anyway.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
By the way, embryos at this stage do not meet the biological definition of life.

By the way, sure they do.
They aren't not just a lifeless lump.
They are humans in the process of developing and being born.
Did you know the human heart starts beating 16 days after conception?
When Does Our Heart First Start To Beat
Abortion stops a human heart from beating. It's homicide.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: DBCowboy

As I said, a blastocyst does not meet the scientific definition of life. It seems to me you're simply trying to establish your religious beliefs as being right but you're trying to hide that fact by hiding behind science, except your science is bad.

Why do you believe this judge has the right to rule which religious beliefs are right and which are wrong?

I honestly think the judge should have ruled based on science.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
This ruling make IVF unsafe, even life threatening in Alabama. If this law holds up to appeal, doctors won't be doing any IVF work in Alabama.

Good. IVF is carnage.
For every live baby born, two or three of his or her siblings had to die in the IVF process.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Did you know that embryos for IVF are frozen at day 5 or 6?

Here are the qualifications for life: Cellular organization, the ability to reproduce, growth & development, energy use, homeostasis, response to their environment, and the ability to adapt.