Alec Baldwin Just Indicted on Two Counts of Involuntary Manslaughter

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: BedevereTheWise
Baldwin shot the woman. That is undisputed. The gun used was loaded with a live round, that is obvious. Who's fault it is will likely fall on several people who were negligent in their duties. To me, the largest issue that exists, is having live ammo for a real gun, that was supposed to be used as a prop. The guy in charge should have never let that happen. Who was ultimately in charge?

But in the end, this is all on poor Alec.

He is the one chose to point the gun at the woman and pull the trigger.

He bears 100% of the responsibility.

a reply to: Lazy88

For a seen or rehearsal where the weapon and the person wilding the weapon are under the supervision of the armorer in accordance with the script and established procedures. Not when the person grabs a gun and points the weapon for horse play and kicks out of the control and possession of the armorer.

I’m not certain what took place as far as the timeline and chain of custody of the weapon. From what I remember reading when it first happened someone else had okayed the weapon also (assistant director maybe,idk). I didn’t think he had just grabbed it at random and fired, I believe he thought he was holding a cleared weapon, in hindsight obviously it wasn’t.

Should the armorer be resolved from live ammunition being on the set no. And what should happen to the person who hired and was in charge of the armorer. And who was that?

I’m not saying anyone should be absolved from accountability. There were so many mistakes made from a few different people. The armorer made the biggest and most mistakes IMO, Baldwin made the mistake of hiring a rookie armorer with very little experience and who knows who else in the chain messed up. I believe this was only her second solo job as a armorer for the film industry. Which as I mentioned earlier, one would think she’d would’ve been overly cautious and to the letter. She wasn’t, not even close. Her incompetence was off the charts. And again, I’m in complete disbelief that there was live ammo on set, yet alone the fact they were playing around firing live ammo from the gun, absolutely insane from a safety perspective. She should’ve been fired on the spot for allowing that to happen.

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Which has what to do with what would happen to you if you pointed a weapon at another person on the range?

It's to do with pointing what you believe to be a safe prop at someone. The subject of this thread.

And that’s the problem. Guns are not “props”. They are weapons.

Growing up. My dad had a saying in his sarcastic way regarding firearm accidents. Somehow empty guns cause the most accidents. I think it came from a cousin that shot himself dead while cleaning a 22. The family never did figure out if it was an accident or suicide.

The entertainment industry should have leaned something from the death of Jon-Erik Hexum.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Which has what to do with what would happen to you if you pointed a weapon at another person on the range?

It's to do with pointing what you believe to be a safe prop at someone. The subject of this thread.

And that’s the problem. Guns are not “props”. They are weapons.

Growing up. My dad had a saying in his sarcastic way regarding firearm accidents. Somehow empty guns cause the most accidents. I think it came from a cousin that shot himself dead while cleaning a 22. The family never did figure out if it was an accident or suicide.

The entertainment industry should have leaned something from the death of Jon-Erik Hexum.

I agree. I don't see any justification for having live ammunition and guns guys capable of firing them on set.

However that isn't the choice of the actor.

It is the choice of the production team.

Which is I have said repeatedly on this thread that I don't think Baldwin is to blame for pulling the trigger. He may well be responsible as a producer of the film.

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


However that isn't the choice of the actor.

It is the choice of the production team.

Hmm.

For the movie Rust. Who was the armorer’s boss and paying the bills?

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Rust is an upcoming American Western film written and directed by Joel Souza. The film stars Alec Baldwin (who also produces, and co-wrote the story with Souza), Patrick Scott McDermott, Travis Fimmel, Frances Fisher, and Josh Hopkins.

en.m.wikipedia.org...(upcoming_film)

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Shrugs…

The special prosecutor, Kari T. Morrissey, is probing why production managers denied a request by weapons handler Hannah Gutierrez Reed for additional days to train Baldwin on the use of his .45 caliber revolver. The gun fired during a rehearsal when Baldwin was practicing a cross-draw maneuver. Firearms experts have said Baldwin likely pulled the trigger, which Baldwin denies doing.

www.latimes.com...

“Rust Productions has either intervened, interfered or obstructed the criminal investigation in this case,” Morrissey told the judge overseeing “Rust” criminal prosecutions. “This entire tragedy occurred because Rust Productions cut corners every chance they could and they hired inexperienced and ill-equipped crew members.”

www.latimes.com...

I think Baldwin is where he is at because he lied about pulling the trigger.

edit on 21-1-2024 by Lazy88 because: (no reason given)

Double post.

a reply to: Lazy88

I would say he is where he is because of this you quoted.

“This entire tragedy occurred because Rust Productions cut corners every chance they could and they hired inexperienced and ill-equipped crew members.”

That sounds the most accurate summary I have read.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Funny companies hire inexperienced people, push them to cut corners, and then use them as escape goats when something bad happens.



www.env.nm.gov...

I thought prop guns were specifically made for this use and could not be loaded with live ammo. Not this one. It appears to be a real 45 long colt firing pistol, moonshining as a prop.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
I thought prop guns were specifically made for this use and could not be loaded with live ammo. Not this one. It appears to be a real 45 long colt firing pistol, moonshining as a prop.

They’ve alway used both real and prop/replica guns.

Is it confirmed they were filming or not when this accident happened? That would confirm if he pulled the trigger or not.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


However that isn't the choice of the actor.

It is the choice of the production team.

Hmm.

For the movie Rust. Who was the armorer’s boss and paying the bills?

Technically it wasn’t just Baldwin. Baldwin was only a co-producer. If they go after Baldwin for neglect as a producer they’re also going to have to go after Cheney and Smith as they’re are the Executive Producers as well as Producers of the film. Cheney and Smith also own the production company.

Now, another movie with Cheney and Smith’s names attached is drawing the worst kind of attention. On a call sheet obtained by the Los Angeles Times, they are credited as executive producer and producer, respectively, on the film “Rust.”

Cheney named his production company Thomasville Pictures, which he co-owns with business partner Ryan Donnell Smith

Cheney and Smith may not be criminally charged for the shooting but I’d bet the farm that their production company would be listed in any civil suits. It’s a mess for everyone.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Funny companies hire inexperienced people, push them to cut corners, and then use them as escape goats when something bad happens.

www.env.nm.gov...

Wow is all I can say after reading the entire investigation summary you posted. No wonder people were walking off set, that was a extremely dangerous set. Poorly managed by multiple people in authoritive positions. Assistant Director who was also Safety Coordinator, the Line Producer and Production Mgr all made numerous mistakes repeatedly as well as others. That set was more like a circus than a professional movie set.