Venezuela War With Guyana

I went to Venezuela in 1994. Stayed in Caracas for a week. It was a crime ridden mess. And the hotel workers went on strike and turned the water off until their strike demands were met. Power to the people and all that. It was a lousy trip.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

From what I've read. I think that this is simply an excuse to keep Maduro in power. First the referendum to get the people behind him. If it gets enough votes. He starts a war. Then says we can't have elections because we are at war. Starts drafting people and builds up the army. Then he takes over the government completely at the head of a military junta until he dies.

Venezuelan here.There is a lot of propaganda surrounding the Guyana issue,and propaganda means the government warmongering in order to gain more votes for next year's elections.The opposition primaries scared them and now they're trying to rally more people with nationalism. Guyana has never been Venezuelan,not even culturally.They barely mention it in school.

A war may never take place,neither an armed conflict but we'll see what happens

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

The status of the territory is subject to the Geneva Agreement, which was signed by the United Kingdom, Venezuela and British Guiana on 17 February 1966. This treaty stipulates that the parties will agree to find a practical, peaceful and satisfactory solution to the dispute.[3] Should there be a stalemate, according to the treaty, the decision as to the means of settlement is to be referred to an "appropriate international organ" or, failing agreement on this point, to the Secretary-General of the United Nations.[3] The Secretary-General referred the entire matter to the International Court of Justice. On 18 December 2020, the ICJ accepted the case submitted by Guyana to settle the dispute.

What is it with these territorial disputes from decades ago that were never resolved? It appears all the wars always flare up over and over again with the international coalitions doing absolutely nothing to aid in finding a middle ground for both countries.

a reply to: quintessentone

Caught between a rock and a hard place.

Interfere and get accused of condescendingly assuming these countries can't resolve their own issues and of course dreaded Neo-colonialism.

Do nothing and get accused of apathy and not caring.

The UK does give Aid to Guyana.

What do YOU think the UK & US should do?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: quintessentone

Caught between a rock and a hard place.

Interfere and get accused of condescendingly assuming these countries can't resolve their own issues and of course dreaded Neo-colonialism.

Do nothing and get accused of apathy and not caring.

The UK does give Aid to Guyana.

What do YOU think the UK & US should do?

I think when one country wants to annex or steal land from another country, for whatever reason, then there needs to be international intervention, mediation and negotiation. If that is impossible to achieve, as is the case here and with other countries worldwide, then what can the U.K. and the U.S.A. do about it except to manipulate them via economics (?)

On 31 October 2023, the government of Guyana filed a request with the ICJ requesting intervention against a proposed referendum approved by the Venezuelan National Electoral Council on 23 October 2023,[85] on annexing Guayana Esequiba as a 24th state of Venezuela, arguing that the referendum served as a pretext for the Venezuelan government to abandon negotiations with Guyana.[86] The proposed referendum was condemned by the Commonwealth of Nations and Caribbean Community (CARICOM), who both issued statements in support of Guyana and the agreed ICJ process for dispute resolution.[4] (wikipedia)

a reply to: quintessentone

I think when one country wants to annex or steal land from another country, for whatever reason, then there needs to be international intervention, mediation and negotiation.

Isn't that allegedly one of the primary purposes and roles of the UN?

....then what can the U.K. and the U.S.A. do about it except to manipulate them via economics

Hasn't the US already sanctioned Venezuela?

Long term sanctions sometimes has an effect on government policy and can be quite effective but the people who suffer the most are the people and not governments.

Besides, no-one has actually invaded anyone, yet.

But that still doesn't address the issue of US/UK intervention; when they do intervene they are accused of manipulation, imposing their will, neo-colonialism etc. When they don't they are accused of apathy, double-standards, not caring etc.

Some people/countries just want to blame the US/UK for anything and/or everything....and will do so no matter what course of action they take - or don't take - as their anti-US/UK mania and agenda are far more important to them than the actual issues.

UN declares Venezuela out of order.

abcnews.go.com...

The U.N. top court has ordered Venezuela not to take any action that would alter Guyana’s control over a disputed territory, but did not specifically ban Venezuela from holding its planned referendum Sunday on the territory’s future.

like Maduro cares what the UN thinks.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n
Guyana (Guyanese) native here. This land situation has been going on for over 100 years and has recently intensified with the massive oil discoveries found in and around Guyana. The UN has effectively barred Venezuela from altering Guyana's control over the disputed territory. As far as Guyana, the UN and the US are concerned, it's a non-issue. Exxon-Mobil has a partnership with the Guyanese government and as such, Guyana is protected by the US.

All Maduro has to do is set foot in Essiquibo and this will give US the excuse they need to invade Venezuela. Maduro should know better but with elections coming next year, he will try to push the envelope as much as possible just to get enough votes to win.

I refuse to believe that Biden will use any US resources to protect Guyana from Venezuela.

remember half of this administration is sympathetic to communist/socialist states anyway.

a reply to: Coelacanth55
There may be some truth to your words. I agree that anything insane is possible but US and Guyana are working together to help strengthen military forces against "security threats".
US, Guyana strengthen military partnership

Bumped because this has ramifications.

I'm hearing Maduro has claimed annexation after the vote.

Anyone looked the Venezuela--Guyana border area with google maps...there are no roads , not roads that go from Venezuela to Guyana. Only road go via Brazil , and Brazil says allready it wont let neither side use it .

It`s thick jungle , and very large jungle....

So it look`s bit different game than say Russia sending their army to Ukraine, via existing roads...

a reply to: Kenzo
I wonder if Venezuela has sealift capacity?
not sure from the maps if the disputed area is water accessible.

edit to add; Northwest of Georgetown (Guyana's capital) is on the Atlantic.
I'll have to check out the terrain.

from what I can see the whole coast is mangrove. not much chance of oceanside landing.
maybe across a river?

Cuyuni river is most of the border. almost all rain forest apparently.

US military to hold 'joint exercises' with Guyana military.

www.cbsnews.com...

The spat is drawing in the international community, with the U.S. announcement of military exercises the latest sign that Washington is alarmed at the threat from the authoritarian leftist Venezuelan government of President Nicolás Maduro.

"In collaboration with the Guyana Defense Force, the U.S. Southern Command will conduct flight operations within Guyana on December 7," the U.S. Embassy in Guyana said in a statement.

hopefully Maduro will back down from this.

according to Wiki the Guyana military possesses 48 aircraft.

a reply to: Coelacanth55


I have no idea what Venezuela army has , sealift capacity or other .

And i they send just men walking to there by foot , they also require logistics ..

look`s challenging area..

a reply to: Xtrozero

We strive to be better .. not make excuses for vile behaviours

The grid isnt down so we dont have to worry about baser instincts.
Its the ability to be civilised when ever we can that defines us from beasts.

originally posted by: rigel4

We strive to be better .. not make excuses for vile behaviours

The grid isnt down so we dont have to worry about baser instincts.
Its the ability to be civilised when ever we can that defines us from beasts.

We are beasts, just smart ones.

You had a moment of clarity here

The human race is just a insane virus with Zero empathy for its fellow beings.

And now you are back in your bubble that "we strive to be better" and I'm saying we only do that when it is convenient for us to do. The interesting part is that "beasts" do not need to strive since they do not do evil things in the first place.

originally posted by: Coelacanth55
US military to hold 'joint exercises' with Guyana military.

www.cbsnews.com...

The spat is drawing in the international community, with the U.S. announcement of military exercises the latest sign that Washington is alarmed at the threat from the authoritarian leftist Venezuelan government of President Nicolás Maduro.

"In collaboration with the Guyana Defense Force, the U.S. Southern Command will conduct flight operations within Guyana on December 7," the U.S. Embassy in Guyana said in a statement.

hopefully Maduro will back down from this.

according to Wiki the Guyana military possesses 48 aircraft.

So you see I was correct in that as much as Maduro was making a fuss to "invade" Guyana, he is not totally as stupid as we think he is. Guatemala also tried to invade Belize over similar land annexation issues that goes back as far as the 17th century and ultimately had to bow to ICJ (International Court of Justice) rulings. A similar fate awaits Maduro and his government and all this "flexing" is predicated on upcoming elections but at the end of the day, special interests will prevail and this will be a non-issue for all parties involved.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: rigel4

We strive to be better .. not make excuses for vile behaviours

The grid isnt down so we dont have to worry about baser instincts.
Its the ability to be civilised when ever we can that defines us from beasts.

We are beasts, just smart ones.

You had a moment of clarity here

The human race is just a insane virus with Zero empathy for its fellow beings.

And now you are back in your bubble that "we strive to be better" and I'm saying we only do that when it is convenient for us to do. The interesting part is that "beasts" do not need to strive since they do not do evil things in the first place.

you win / we are not worth #