Hundreds of Palestinians dead in Gaza hospital bombing, local authorities say

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Muldar

Stop defending the killings of innocent civilians by the Israeli Air Strikes whenever these occur

I see you're still making things up.

I posted the definition of a war crime.

You told me to stop.

Why do you hate facts?

I am sorry but your purpose was to excuse the act of it was coming from the Israeli Armed Forces and argue it's not a war crime.

My prior response to this is probably gonna get deleted so, lemme try again:

My purpose was to inform.

Your false assertions of my motivations are irrelevant.

You seem really annoyed that I informed people of the actual definition of a war crime.

Maybe because now they can check your claims of war crimes against the actual definition and see if you're telling the truth?

I'm gonna post the definition again, just for you:

originally posted by: face23785
Since a lot of uninformed people (along with some deliberate purveyors of propaganda) like to throw around terms like "war crimes" without knowing what they mean:

A war crime has an internationally recognized definition

Regarding hospitals:

Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives

Note the term "intentionally" and the ending caveat "provided they are not military objectives".

This means that if Hamas or Israel hit a hospital on accident, it is not a war crime. It would also not be a war crime if the hospital was being used to launch military operations, like rockets (something Hamas is known to have done) and it was struck to take out that military target.

I will stress again, though, that even if it was used to launch rockets, I would not have bombed it and I hope that's not what Israel did. I'm just saying if that's what happened it's not a war crime.

If it was hit on accident by either side, it is not a war crime then either.

It is ONLY a war crime IF it was targeted ON PURPOSE and there were NO LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS in it.

Anyone saying otherwise is either uninformed or lying.

ETA: Feel free to copy this and just throw it in their face every time they falsely use the term "war crime." Propaganda needs to be met with swift, sourced debunking.

Not at all.
I am not annoyed with others posting.
I just call out the attempts to defend Israel when it's clear both sides have committed war crimes and there seems to be a lot of propaganda in these threads.

Posting the definition of a war crime, as I did, isn't "defending Israel."

However, I can see how, if someone was hypothetically trying to falsely accuse Israel of war crimes, that person could perceive me posting the definition of a war crime as defending Israel.

By the way, making up blatant lies about other members I'm pretty sure is against the T&C.

It'd be a good idea if you'd stop blatantly and repeatedly lying about my motivations.

Here's the definition again, in case you forgot:

Since a lot of uninformed people (along with some deliberate purveyors of propaganda) like to throw around terms like "war crimes" without knowing what they mean:

A war crime has an internationally recognized definition

Regarding hospitals:

Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives

Note the term "intentionally" and the ending caveat "provided they are not military objectives".

This means that if Hamas or Israel hit a hospital on accident, it is not a war crime. It would also not be a war crime if the hospital was being used to launch military operations, like rockets (something Hamas is known to have done) and it was struck to take out that military target.

I will stress again, though, that even if it was used to launch rockets, I would not have bombed it and I hope that's not what Israel did. I'm just saying if that's what happened it's not a war crime.

If it was hit on accident by either side, it is not a war crime then either.

It is ONLY a war crime IF it was targeted ON PURPOSE and there were NO LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS in it.

Anyone saying otherwise is either uninformed or lying.

ETA: Feel free to copy this and just throw it in their face every time they falsely use the term "war crime." Propaganda needs to be met with swift, sourced debunking.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Muldar
The purpose of your post was to argue that Israel hasn't committed a war crime.

You don't know that. He already said it wasn't. And even if it was, SO WHAT?
That's the point of this site, to discuss a topic and he's allowed to take that stand
and argue that point if he wants. He wasn't ... but he could have.

originally posted by: carewemust
Hamas lovers (MSNBC) says Hamas doesn't have rockets that can destroy a large concrete building.

If munitions were being stored there, as is being reported,
and it was hit by a wayward rocket, it certainly could.

I will say again that genuine debate can be easily spotted just as when some members try to defend one side no matter what. And it's a reality that both sides have committed war crimes. The argument was made to defend Israel in case it was behind the attack. It's so clear to me.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: belkide
It looks like a false flag, exploding the hospital from beneath. I am really starting to believe the iron dome is also a hoax. a reply to: putnam6

Hamas lovers (MSNBC) says Hamas doesn't have rockets that can destroy a large concrete building. But a guy on MSNBC (who is now on their shi't list) says most of the deaths are in a courtyard, where the rocket struck. Palestinians know to remain close to hospitals, because Israel vowed not to strike hospitals.

And as soon as Israel vowed that Hamas may very well have moved operational supplies, including pallets of munitions into hospitals.

They would be safe there. They would also make a big secondary explosion if hit by a stray rocket.

a reply to: Muldar

Hamas uses a number of rockets, some are homemade like the QASSEM, made with steel pipes and fueled by mixture of sugar and saltpeter

Other are manufactured like the derivatives of the Soviet/Russian 122 mm GRAD

www.globalsecurity.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

The Qassem is notorious for being inaccurate and unreliable The European Union spent millions lay a new water pipes to provide fresh water to the people of Gaza Hamas dug up the pipes and cut them up to build rockets to shoot at Israel

Real nice people Hamas is Uses hospitals as ammunition store to keep Israel from bombing them

To paraphrase Cato the Elder HAMAS DELANDA EST

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Muldar
The purpose of your post was to argue that Israel hasn't committed a war crime.

You don't know that. He already said it wasn't. And even if it was, SO WHAT?
That's the point of this site, to discuss a topic and he's allowed to take that stand
and argue that point if he wants. He wasn't ... but he could have.

originally posted by: carewemust
Hamas lovers (MSNBC) says Hamas doesn't have rockets that can destroy a large concrete building.

If munitions were being stored there, as is being reported,
and it was hit by a wayward rocket, it certainly could.

I will say again that genuine debate can be easily spotted just as when some members try to defend one side no matter what. And it's a reality that both sides have committed war crimes. The argument was made to defend Israel in case it was behind the attack. It's so clear to me.

I think we need to let people speak for themselves instead of telling other people what they meant by it.
Face says the intention was to inform, and didn't actually say anything untrue.

---"Why are hospital bombings so hard to prosecute?... Even if Russian individuals are identified, proving they deliberately hit healthcare settings is often the trickier task, said Astrid Coracini, lecturer in international law at the University of Vienna. “It’s clear that hospitals were attacked,” she said. “The question is whether they were targeted. Were the locations of the hospitals clear? A lot of missile strikes come from far away. So, the question is, was it clear that these buildings were hospitals? Was there a military target that was close to it?”--- - From an article I found.

So yeah, that is indeed the legal definition of a war crime. No need to infer motive, because it's still true.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Muldar

Stop defending the killings of innocent civilians by the Israeli Air Strikes whenever these occur

I see you're still making things up.

I posted the definition of a war crime.

You told me to stop.

Why do you hate facts?

I am sorry but your purpose was to excuse the act of it was coming from the Israeli Armed Forces and argue it's not a war crime.

My prior response to this is probably gonna get deleted so, lemme try again:

My purpose was to inform.

Your false assertions of my motivations are irrelevant.

You seem really annoyed that I informed people of the actual definition of a war crime.

Maybe because now they can check your claims of war crimes against the actual definition and see if you're telling the truth?

I'm gonna post the definition again, just for you:

originally posted by: face23785
Since a lot of uninformed people (along with some deliberate purveyors of propaganda) like to throw around terms like "war crimes" without knowing what they mean:

A war crime has an internationally recognized definition

Regarding hospitals:

Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives

Note the term "intentionally" and the ending caveat "provided they are not military objectives".

[...]

There is no hypothesis by me when all major news have reported on an Israeli Air Strike that hit a hospital and another which hit a school. It's in my OP from Reuters and I have used 4 or 5 major news outlets together with the links provided. I didn't come up with this story.

And I already said in my OP that this story needs to be verified. So again I didn't take sides just as you do and you try to excuse and defend the actions by the Israeli Air Forces no matter what.

It may turn out to be not an attack from Israel as more news are coming in. That's why I said this story needs to be verified.

But the case remains Israel has committed war crimes just as many others have argued. As I said earlier, yesterday a member of the European Parliament Mike Wallace said it clearly and explained his reasons.

youtu.be...

edit on Tue Oct 17 2023 by DontTreadOnMe because: TRIM QUOTES!!!!!!

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Muldar

Hamas uses a number of rockets, some are homemade like the QASSEM, made with steel pipes and fueled by mixture of sugar and saltpeter

Other are manufactured like the derivatives of the Soviet/Russian 122 mm GRAD

www.globalsecurity.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

The Qassem is notorious for being inaccurate and unreliable The European Union spent millions lay a new water pipes to provide fresh water to the people of Gaza Hamas dug up the pipes and cut them up to build rockets to shoot at Israel

Real nice people Hamas is Uses hospitals as ammunition store to keep Israel from bombing them

To paraphrase Cato the Elder HAMAS DELANDA EST

Yes they do and they have no problem trying to jerry-rig what ever they have in their arsenal

originally posted by: face23785
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Still, you have been defending Israel all the way and in many other threads. You don't really have a case when you take sides. Especially in this conflict.

In my case though things are very different. You can see my posts everywhere. They usually start with this: War crimes by Hamas have been answered by war crimes by Israel.

Those who want to argue that collective punishment for the entire Palestinian Nation is a proportional response and that it's ok to kill innocent civilians by their thousands, including women and children, aren't doing well either when they argue or when they try to 'debunk' others.

a reply to: Muldar

Oh, the news reported it?

I explained to you in another thread how the media works. AP and Reuters, the main wire services, blindly report whatever they're told by Hamas. Other "news" sites like CNN, Fox, CBS, etc. just repeat what AP and Reuters report. They rarely independently verify anything.

In this case, all they were reporting was that Hamas claimed Israel bombed the hospital. They weren't actually saying Israel did it.

They also reported that it may have been a rocket launched from Gaza:




I'm sure it's just a coincidence you didn't talk about those reports though right? You're not taking sides, you just coincidentally only see and talk about stories that demonize Israel.

Meanwhile, I literally posted a definition, information that's totally neutral and applies equally to both sides.

Anyway, this is twice I've explained how the news works to you now.

Only you can force yourself to remain ignorant. You seem to be a big fan of being as ignorant as possible about a variety of subjects.

You can have the last word, which will no doubt be full of more lies. Your constant lying and attempts at disinformation ruined another of your threads.

Hamas is to blame no matter how you look at it. They are the ones who started the war AND they are the ones threatening to kill any Palestinian who tries to leave Gaza. Hamas needs them for fodder.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Muldar

Oh, the news reported it?

I explained to you in another thread how the media works. AP and Reuters, the main wire services, blindly report whatever they're told by Hamas. Other "news" sites like CNN, Fox, CBS, etc. just repeat what AP and Reuters report. They rarely independently verify anything.

In this case, all they were reporting was that Hamas claimed Israel bombed the hospital. They weren't actually saying Israel did it.

[.....]

As a former journalist, I can confirm that is indeed how it usually works.
National and Global news mostly came to us prewritten.

Geolocation information from multiple videos confirms the videos that appeared to show a rocket hitting the hospital were indeed filming the hospital's location.

I was reserving judgement because I couldn't tell for sure that the videos actually showed the same location as the hospital, but this seems to put it to bed. Anyone who wants to can double-check the information themselves.

The rocket failed on ascent and came back down, hitting the hospital.

Some last-ditch efforts to still blame Israel by saying they shot it down, but none of Israel's missile defense systems shoot down rockets that early after launch.

This looks like pretty solid confirmation it was a rocket launched from Gaza, whether from Hamas or PIJ or whoever, I don't know, but it was almost certainly not an Israeli airstrike.

Well if it has to be intentional/ not a military target in order to be a war crime,
and we're also not totally sure this was Israel's missile, and they deny it, and Hamas has had a history of stuff like this and might've had munitions/ soldiers in the hospital, then could either side even could be found guilty of this at this point?

Kinda seems not to me.


a reply to: Muldar

Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid." Richard and Kahlan frowned even more. "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.

From the book by Terry Goodkind

Trust, but VERIFY

Wizard's First Rule

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Muldar

Oh, the news reported it?

I explained to you in another thread how the media works. AP and Reuters, the main wire services, blindly report whatever they're told by Hamas. Other "news" sites like CNN, Fox, CBS, etc. just repeat what AP and Reuters report. They rarely independently verify anything.

In this case, all they were reporting was that Hamas claimed Israel bombed the hospital. They weren't actually saying Israel did it.

They also reported that it may have been a rocket launched from Gaza:
[.....]

Yes it was the news.
I didn't make it up, and it didn't come up from my imagination. That's why I said it has to be confirmed as I know there could be mistakes when reporting these matters.

There is no hypothesis by me when all major news have reported on an Israeli Air Strike that hit a hospital and another which hit a school. It's in my OP from Reuters and I have used 4 or 5 major news outlets together with the links provided. I didn't come up with this story.

And I already said in my OP that this story needs to be verified. So again I didn't take sides just as you do.

The thread is doing fine and has had plenty of attention.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Hamas is to blame no matter how you look at it. They are the ones who started the war AND they are the ones threatening to kill any Palestinian who tries to leave Gaza. Hamas needs them for fodder.

Why not the people who elected hamas as their leaders?

When Joe Biden brings disaster to America, will we blame him or will we blame ourselves for making him our president?

originally posted by: TheValeyard
Well if it has to be intentional/ not a military target in order to be a war crime,
and we're also not totally sure this was Israel's missile, and they deny it, and Hamas has had a history of stuff like this and might've had munitions/ soldiers in the hospital, then could either side even could be found guilty of this at this point?

Kinda seems not to me.


a reply to: Muldar

That's not the main topic of the thread. But how do you prove intentions?

Israel has already committed war crimes just like Hamas. It's not even debatable. Take a look at Mike Wallace an Irish MEP who describes it best in the European Parliament in less than 2 minutes.

youtu.be...

The point which has been contested the most is whether this was a war crime and not the fact that hundreds of people have been slaughtered. No matter who fired at the hospital.