Some Thoughts on the Doctrine of Eternal Annihilation

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
a reply to: Hecate666

My sentiments exactly! I too have a strong sense of justice, and I know deep down with my intuition and conscience that what religion teaches us is wrong on so many levels. If there is a god, the god in the bible is an impostor.

Or his teachings have been perverted and/or co-opted by the men who made all of the decisions as to what books were to be included and which ones were to be excluded.

a reply to: MetalChickAmy

Organizations with Christian beginnings are numerous.

Red Cross, YMCA, Boy Scouts, and a massive number of charitable organizations many of which are feeding and housing the homeless even today.

William Wilberforce in the UK and the Quakers in the US were instrumental in ending the slave trade.

Our law systems in the West as well as the US bill of rights are all based on the Christian ethic.

Those are just off the top of my head.

Some are corrupted now but that’s the way of the world.

Sounds like a BS promise made by the Demiurge.

a reply to: ElGoobero

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: NorthOfStuffx2
a reply to: tanstaafl
The way I read it is that repentance is a gift from God, not anything we are able to offer on our own.

Nope, repentence is an overt act of volition. It literally means 'to change one's way of thinking'. Meaning, you have to ask for forgiveness, and change your behavior (stop doing the sin).

Anything else - ie, a catholic going to church every Sunday asking for forgiveness for doing the same things over and over - is insanity.

If you don't believe me look up the words to these passages in a Concordance sometime.

I think we agree.

What I’m saying is repentance isn’t a work.

It is something that is urged on by the Holy Spirit and not something man’s dark and corrupt heart can come to without that urging.

Our thoughts are continuously evil and we are naturally against anything holy due to our fallen state.

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
a reply to: Hecate666

My sentiments exactly! I too have a strong sense of justice, and I know deep down with my intuition and conscience that what religion teaches us is wrong on so many levels. If there is a god, the god in the bible is an impostor.

Dear MetalChickAmy, I agree with you 100%. And you are correct. Anyone with a normal sense of justice realizes that what Christendom teaches about God is the most evil and abhorrent affront to justice that has ever been conceived. Would a parent take a child's hand and put it on top of a hot burner to punish it? That is abhorrent to our sense of morality. Yet Christendom teaches that God doesn't just burn a child's hand, but tortures a body for an eternity in Hellfire. There has never been imagined such an evil being as the one Christendom worships.

But the Bible does not teach that. In Genesis 1:31 we are told that all of God's creation was good:

"After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good."-Genesis 1:31.

No, not just good, "very good." And the punishment God gave to the first human pair for disobeying was death. He never told them they would continue to live on and suffer evil for eternity:

"But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die."-Genesis :17.

When the Israelites borrowed the pagan worship of the neighboring nations and began to go as far as offer their sons and daughters in the sacrificial fires to those false gods, Jehovah God could said that such a thing had never even entered into his heart to do such a thing:

"They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’"-Jeremiah 7:31.

MetalChickAmy, I want you to know where I am coming from when I speak up on this issue. From an early age I learned that Jehovah God is a God of love and mercy. I was shown with scripture that when a person dies he ceases to exist. But to God death is like a sleep because he has power over death and will resurrect both good and bad people back to life in the future resurrection in Jesus' kingdom rule over the earth. Then I saw the evil teachings that Christendom teaches as dogma and doctrine about God. And saw how an apostate Church borrowed ideas of Hellfire from pagan sources. And the pagans didn't even teach the cruelty of being perpetually burned for eternity that apostate Church began to teach.

And that teaching has terrorized people. And it has lead them to do some really evil things in God's name. I was never in Christendom so I don't know personally the indoctrination they receive and understand by experience the evil the teachings of Christendom inflicts on its adherents. But I know many, many people, including my own wife, and my mom and dad, and I have many people I have helped open their eyes to see the light of Bible truth, that were once inflicted with this evil slander about God. And it does do deep psychological harm. They imagine like you, that God is evil, he is vindictive, he is cruel, he is someone to be loathed and feared. And that is much how they treat each other and others. And that comes across in many of these who are indoctrinated with this evil on this website, even against me. I cannot fathom the workings of their minds, how warped, how much they react out of fear, and how much of it is from the evil in their hearts caused by it.

But know that God is not like that. Christendom teaches an evil God that doesn't exist. MetalChickAmy, I see the harm and the evil the slander the Churches cause by their evil teachings. I once was fasely accused of a very henious crime. And everyone believed it. And I suffered immensely while I tried to prove my innocence. And even to this day my name has been stained by that evil lie someone wicked told about me. When that happened I reflected on the evil that people spew in God's name and I went to him in prayer and said I understand to a small degree how God must feel because of all the slander that is heaped upon his good name Jehovah. And I made him a promise that I will stand up for his name and defend it the best I can and help clear it of reproach. That is what I wanted from those who loved me when I was going through my false accusations. That is why I fight with a passion defending God's good name.

God is patient. But do not think his feelings are not deeply hurt by the evil that Christendom claims he does. He is innocent of the blasphemies they heap upon his name. And it will be very just when in the near future he takes them to account for all of the harm they have caused humankind, and the blasphemies they heaped upon his good name. Because of religious people, and religious creeds and doctrines, many people speak abusively about God.

Many of these wicked people on this website constantly berate and lie about and name-call Jehovah's Witnesses. When it is they who behave evil, who are prejudiced, and who have been indoctrinated.

Jehovah is a good God. A God of love and mercy. And those who have been touched by that love and are drawn to him by his holy spirit, are given the spirit of truth. And they declare abroad the excellence of the good God who has brought us out of the darkness to his wonderful light.

That is why I authored the thread entitled: The Everlasting Love of God.

And that is also why I authored the thread: Hellfire is a Lie.

In the last part of that thread I wrote:

To those who have been traumatized by this satanic teaching, know that God is observant of the pain you were caused and he can and will heal the wounds. And he will hold to account all of the religious leaders who knowingly misrepresent his word and his name to the people. And to the religious leaders in Christendom who continue to teach lies about God, you really do have to stop before God holds you to account for demonizing his great and Most Holy name.

Jehovah's Witnesses speak the truth about God from the Bible. And that is why the clergy of Christendom hates them. They expose the clergy as the Man of Lawlessness.

a reply to: MetalChickAmy

Another deeply confused soul .. My advice to you and all other atheist is to stop being offended by Christianity or any religion for that matter and just concentrate on the basic message. This has nothing to do with religion. Religion just attempts to explain the supernatural/esoteric nature of our lives and offer some advice to help us get through it .. you don't need religion to discover God .. God is the real deal .. Religion has been infiltrated and administered by weak minded people who have been corrupted by satan and it those people who are responsible for all the wars and mayhem caused in the past.

Stop blaming your creator for all the misdeeds committed by the church. The Roman church was corrupt from its inception to control the narrative. Satan is the great deceiver and God is the great redeemer

Satan works for God .. he loves God, as do all the other angels. Satans job is to entice you away from God and into believing that God and satan does not exist. The purpose for this deception is to present you with duality .. it is from duality that we learn our lessons and make the mistakes from which we evolve. it is the only reason we choose to have a physical life.

Duality is what drives our spiritual evolution. Don't regret your sins, be grateful that you survived them and now have the opportunity to redeem yourself.

Atheists have the same critical thinking skills as flat Earthers and it amazes me how they ever got this far.

I don't think this will work but its worth a try .. Attempt to put your paradigms aside (for a month say) .. sit down in a quiet place and talk to God. I know you think that would be a waste of time, but I assure you that God will be listening.

Ask God to come into your life and attempt to be authentic because fake doesn't work. If you connect, which is basically tuning into a frequency, then expect your life to rapidly change for the better. Supernatural positive events will occur in your life that will leave you in no doubt that God exists .. I experience the supernatural daily.

Good luck and God bless!

The creation, itself, is a code matrix and will also "die". ("Heaven and Earth shall pass away..." Matt 24:35) This is possibly because it's "corrupted".

We are all pre-coded into this matrix like NPC characters in a video game.

When the game is turned off (or "passes away"), we go with it. Into non-existence or "eternal annihilation".

Unless...

...we're "born again". Or "born in spirit", as it's also put. "Saved" is another way it's said.

When that happens, we awake out of an "NPC" status. We become "eternal" and will eventually exist in an entirely other code matrix. "I go to prepare a place for you..." John 14:3

The point is we're not automatically eternal beings when born, contrary to many spiritualist ideas.

Those that go into eternal annihilation are basically NPCs with no "eternal qualities".

a reply to: shaell

The point is we're not automatically eternal beings when born, contrary to many spiritualist ideas.

We really are eternal, at least the essence of the monad is, The monad spent billions of years even before it manifested into the physical world during involution. Once arrived into this density the monad will grow in awareness and never stop evolving and expanding until it return to God. The journey takes approximately forever, but it's well worth the trip apparently .. omniscience and omnipotence would be cool.

We do this journey back and forth so many times, the average age of most souls are approaching 100,000 previous lives. We have spent the vast majority of those relatively short lives living as barbarians. Our life spans these days are changing now thanks to the big pharma .. Ha ha! I mean out lives are getting shorter.

It is only a very few who won't make it to be conscious throughout eternity. For those who sold their souls it could be touch and go but God loves us all unconditionally and doesn't want to give up on any of his children.

The creation, itself, is a code matrix and will also "die". ("Heaven and Earth shall pass away..." Matt 24:35) This is possibly because it's "corrupted".

Earth will pass away but not because of corruption. The Earth dissolves along with the rest of the universe, another massive cycle complete interspersed with many soul harvesting events. The physical world is where the monad is first introduced into creation and is the school yard were we purify our souls by constantly making mistakes and correcting ourselves until we are pure enough to break free of the reincarnation cycle.

In respect of hell, the church fired its furnaces hotter than anybody else. in most religious life there is a sense of reward and punishment in some form. The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. the idea of a place under the earth or somewhere you’re tormented for an eternity – is an invention of the church?
Every church on the planet claims that ‘we are the true church’ – that they have some ultimate authority, ‘We have the infallible Pope,’ ‘We have the Bible.’… The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination. God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God.

a reply to: redchad

It's all boils down to there are ways to go in life and there's a right and a wrong.

originally posted by: randomuser
Jehovah's Witnesses speak the truth about God from the Bible.

No they don't.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1

Preach that and then they will be speaking some biblical truth. Until then, they aren't.

Oh ... and the Bible came from the Catholic Church in 397 AD - the CATHOLIC Council of Carthage. Every time you call the early Catholic Church 'apostate' you are calling the Bible apostate. It's ridiculous.

And that is why the clergy of Christendom hates them.

Two billion Christians reject the end of the world Jehovahs Witness cult because its' wrong. Period.


Scripture is clear. Hell exists. "Hell" is not mistranslated from 'the grave'. It's real. It's everlasting. Scripture says so. Deal with it.

HELL is scriptural.
When the Bible speaks of death of a soul, HELL (NOT 'the grave')
is what it is talking about.
The lake of fire is the second death - Revelation 20:13-14

Hell is a real place of conscious, eternal suffering Matt. 5:22; 25:41, 46; Jude 7; Rev. 14:11; 20:10, 14

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

"The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God." Psalms 9:17

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matthew 13:50

"because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay."Acts 2:27

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out" Mark 9:43

" In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire" Jude 1:7

"The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead" Proverbs 15:24

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" Matthew 25:41

" But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Revelation 19:20

'For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" 2 Peter 2:4

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death" Revelation 20:13-14

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28

originally posted by: Untun
a reply to: redchad

It's all boils down to there are ways to go in life and there's a right and a wrong.

And all because the way your parents were educated and brought up and the way you were educated and brought up your on your present journey. Some people question the narrative and look for a more logical direction as opposed to a fairy tale originally created to control the uneducated! Out of interest which is your bible of choice? (It will explain the journey your on)

originally posted by: NorthOfStuffx2
a reply to: ElGoobero

I’ve wondered about this.

After much study, I came to the conclusion that the soul is created eternal.

...

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Can't have been a very objective study if you still came to that conclusion in spite of the clear statement above. Of course if one assumes that what the Bible actually teaches is meaningless to you when it directly contradicts something you were taught (in Church or seminar or whatever for example) or want to believe, then it makes a bit more sense that you still came to the conclusion that the soul is eternal (or at least created eternal).

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

What is the origin of the myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:
At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

originally posted by: whereislogic
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version

It shall die the second death ... that is separation from God for all eternity.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

It doesn't cease to exist. Scripture is clear. Suffering is eternal.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

a reply to: ElGoobero

Here is a testimony from a lady who died for 14 mins and spend 5 yrs on the other side. I am pretty sure you will bag it but we all have a sense of when someone is lying or not.

originally posted by: Untun
a reply to: redchad

It's all boils down to there are ways to go in life and there's a right and a wrong.

And all because the way your parents were educated and brought up and the way you were educated and brought up your on your present journey. Some people question the narrative and look for a more logical direction as opposed to a fairy tale originally created to control the uneducated! Out of interest which is your bible of choice? (It will explain the journey your on)

a reply to: redchad

Just because someone holds air doesn't mean he/she isn't drowning.

a reply to: ElGoobero

God doesn't send any of us to hell, believe it or not, we choose to go there. He could have created robots, but He created living beings with free will, the right to decide their own fates. It's the price of our existence. I have heard that what hell actually is, is the realization of eternity spent without Gods presence, which when you realize the true nature of God, is total anguish and grief.

originally posted by: whereislogic
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version

originally posted by: FlyersFan
It shall die the second death ... that is separation from God for all eternity.

Ezekiel 18:4 and its context contains no indication whatsoever that it is speaking about what Revelation is referring to as "the second death". Regardless, Ezekiel 18:4 still shows, as you acknowledged, that the soul dies (or can die), meaning it does not live eternally. Death is the opposite of life (second death or otherwise). Saying (or admitting as you did) that the soul dies is the opposite of saying that the soul continues living eternally (or that the soul is eternal, a phrase that implies that). So saying both, is talking in contradictions. Saying that the soul is eternal, contradicts Ezekiel 18:4 and scores of other Bible texts that speak about souls dying (and everything they are, including their thoughts and desires perishing with them; we've been through some of these before, including the one about losing conscious awareness, Eccl 9:5,10).

It doesn't cease to exist. Scripture is clear. Suffering is eternal.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

How do you go from "everlasting destruction" to 'continue to exist forever/eternally'? Again, doesn't "destruction" imply the exact opposite of 'continuing to exist'?

...

Is there eternal punishment for the wicked?

Matt. 25:46, KJ: “These shall go away into everlasting punishment [“lopping off,” Int; Greek, koʹla·sin]: but the righteous into life eternal.” (The Emphatic Diaglott reads “cutting-off” instead of “punishment.” A footnote states: “Kolasin . . . is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. . . . 3. To chastise, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment;—hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted, because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death. See 2 Thess. 1.9.”)

2 Thess. 1:9, RS: “They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction* and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” (*“Eternal ruin,” NAB, NE; “lost eternally,” JB; “condemn them to eternal punishment,” Kx; “eternal punishment in destruction,” Dy.)

Jude 7, KJ: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah ceased burning thousands of years ago. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt. God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example. At Luke 17:29, Jesus says that they were “destroyed”; Jude 7 shows that the destruction was eternal.)

What is the meaning of the ‘eternal torment’ referred to in Revelation?

...

What is the ‘fiery Gehenna’ to which Jesus referred?

...

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?

...

Source: Hell (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

originally posted by: whereislogic
as you also said, the soul still dies, meaning it does not live eternally.

I never said that. 'The second death" is the soul being separated from God for eternity. The soul lives, but it is considered dead to God as far as God being involved with it other than sustaining it in existence. The soul rejected God now God rejects the soul.

Saying (or admitting as you did) that the soul dies

Nope. I didn't say that. 'Second death' isn't annihilation. It's separation from God.

"How do you go from "everlasting destruction" to 'continue to exist forever/eternally'? Again, doesn't "destruction" imply the exact opposite of 'continuing to exist'?

It very clearly says EVERLASTING. It says very clearly that it is 'shut out from the presence of the Lord'. This is the second death. Destruction in the soul is not the same as extinction.

Scripture is clear. Hell exists. It is everlasting torment at being separated from God. THAT is the second death. THAT is 'death to the soul'. It is the death of God alive with the soul. Not death of the soul itself.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

Scripture goes on and on ... the soul lives forever ... either in Heaven with God, or in Hell without God which is the second death ... but it isn't extinguished. And no, Hell isn't another word for 'the grave' ... it's HELL where the fire never goes out and the worm doesn't die.

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

"The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God." Psalms 9:17

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matthew 13:50

"because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay."Acts 2:27

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out" Mark 9:43

" In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire" Jude 1:7

"The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead" Proverbs 15:24

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" Matthew 25:41

" But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Revelation 19:20

'For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" 2 Peter 2:4

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death" Revelation 20:13-14

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28